I want to start selectively vaxing my 5 year old. - Page 3

[mamakay]

There actually was, but it caused no illnesses (they simply discovered the virus in them by accident) and it was the vaccine strain, not the wild strain.

[mamakay]

nevermind.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by reepicheep

Hi, I am a litle confused- wasn't there an outbreak of polio among the Amish in pennsylvania last year?

There was not a polio outbreak. A VACCINE-DERIVED strain of the virus was found in an infant in Minnesota who did not develop symptoms of polio, which happens in up to 95% of the population.

A vaccine-derived strain means that it came from someone who was shedding the oral polio vaccine. FTR, the CDC and the WHO have no idea how long OPV shedding occurs and therefore there could be a significant number of people walking around with vaccine-derived polio stains or wild polio in their bodies, yet present no symptoms of polio.

The only reason why they knew a few other Amish children had the VD strain was because they tested them. Otherwise, they never would have known.

The CDC doesn't go around testing people for polio when they exhibit flu-like symptoms and then of course almost everyone who has polio will never even develop any symptoms at all.

If you don't seek, you don't find.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by Imvishta

On my birthday I went to my doctor who did a chest X-ray and said that I did not have pneumonia, but he would treat me for asthma. He mentioned a nebulizer (I asked [one of the other mothers] and she said that's what [her son] used), but he never gave it to me. Instead he put me on tons of meds: Avelox (antibiotic), guaifenex (decongestant with expectorant), Prednisone (steroid), Hyphed (cough syrup with antihistamine, narcotic, decongestant), Albuterol ("rescue" inhaler) and Advair (preventative steroid inhaler).

Alrighty, since you haven't posted on the main forum yet, I'm going to address this right here. It's typical that a chest x-ray would show no congestion with pertussis. Pertussis doesn't cause congestion. It damages the cilia of the lungs, making it extremely difficult to get rid of the normal, everyday amount of mucous that accumulates there. This isn't visible on an x-ray and it isn't audible with a stethoscope, but it's what causes the coughing.

Now, I have no idea when your birthday was, but the medications you're taking are not going to help your condition AT ALL and some of them will make it WORSE. Antibiotics do not cure pertussis at any stage of the illness, nor do they shorten the duration. This has been proven by a thorough review of all the literature.

Antibiotics are effective in eliminating from patients with the disease, rendering them non-infectious, but do not alter the subsequent clinical course of the illness.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/502134

So the abx won't help you get better faster. The expectorant isn't going to help, because the cilia aren't functioning well enough to expectorate, no matter how thin and liquid the drug makes the mucous, you still can't cough it up and will still experience the coughing spells. An antihistamine isn't going to help you because you aren't having a histamine response to begin with. And the steroids will make you WORSE, because they weaken the immune system, making it even harder for your body to fight off illness and repair itself. If you want to get better, you need to stop taking them. If you don't have asthma, you shouldn't be treating yourself for asthma. Not your fault, I know, but now that you're aware it isn't asthma, why are you still taking the medications? Out of all those medications, the only thing that might help even a little bit is the decongestant, because it slows the production of mucous. It won't help much, though, because you're going to produce some mucous no matter what you take and remember, it's not the mucous that's the problem - it's your body's inability to get it out.

So for however long you've been using all this medication, you've been doing things that will not help at best (abx, antihistamines) and will make you sicker at worst (steroids). I feel terrible for you that you've been so sick. My DD had pertussis at 5.5 months and she was barely even sick. We didn't require any treatment whatsoever, and in general, pertussis is much, much, much more serious in infants of that age than in adults. The fact that your case is so severe is highly unusual.

The way to avoid such a severe case of pertussis is to take tons and tons and tons of vitamin C at the first sign of pertussis. It helps the body eliminate some of the toxins that damage the cilia, resulting in less damage, which in turn means less coughing. Vitamin C is also great for the immune system. We're not talking a few hundred milligrams here, though. We're talking about several grams a day for an adult.

Again, I'm sorry your case was so severe, but it would be a horrible mistake to ignore all the evidence that says pertussis is generally a mild illness, like this study

Most cases of whooping cough are relatively mild. Such cases are difficult to diagnose without a high index of suspicion because doctors are unlikely to hear the characteristic cough, which may be the only symptom. Parents can be reassured that a serious outcome is unlikely.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/310/6975/299

simply because your case happened to be one of the rare incidents of more severe illness. Just as it would be illogical for me to say that pertussis in infants is mild because my daughter's case was mild, it is illogical for you to assume that pertussis is a generally serious illness just because your case was more severe. The evidence supports the conclusion that pertussis is a mild, self-limiting disease for the vast majority of people.

[Dar]

I'm returning this thread for further discussion. Please keep the discussion respectful, as per the user agreement:

You are expected to avoid the following when you post:

Posting in a disrespectful, defamatory, adversarial, baiting, harassing, offensive, insultingly sarcastic or otherwise improper manner, toward a member or other individual, including casting of suspicion upon a person, invasion of privacy, humiliation, demeaning criticism, namecalling, personal attack, or in any way which violates the law.

Dar

[prettypixels]

Hey wow, that is true about the polio amongst the Amish...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...101301733.html

Kind of confusing though as they say that the strain they found amongst the (unvaxed) Amish is the same strain used in the oral polio vax... which hasn't been used since 2000?

I guess that explains why they are still vaxing for polio, anyways, if it is still floating around out there. I didn't really understand why it was still on our vax schedule given the low number of cases reported (globally) for 2006.

Paralysis in 1 in 200, I am not loving those odds for me or my family, personally.

[alegna]

No, that article is inaccurate.

-Angela

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by prettypixels

Kind of confusing though as they say that the strain they found amongst the (unvaxed) Amish is the same strain used in the oral polio vax... which hasn't been used since 2000?

this sentance explains EXACTLY the problem.......they dont vaccinate, yet people in the public who they come into contact with, got the oral polio vaccine, and it shed....but, most people are asymptomatic and 4% have flu like symptoms, and only 1% have paraylisis.

There is no research on how long the OPV will shed, so it could possibly still be infecting people with the Opv strain.

you'll notices theres no WILD polio strain being found, just the vaccine one.

[ndunn]

I just wanted to ask a question/touch on something, that was said a few times. The reference keeps being made to if someone were to step on a nail and go to the hospital they'd have to get a "tetanus shot". It is my understanding that at that point a shot or vaccine would do nothing for you, but the immunoglobin would. Can someone pls clarify? Thx.

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by ndunn

I just wanted to ask a question/touch on something, that was said a few times. The reference keeps being made to if someone were to step on a nail and go to the hospital they'd have to get a "tetanus shot". It is my understanding that at that point a shot or vaccine would do nothing for you, but the immunoglobin would. Can someone pls clarify? Thx.

you are correct.......you need the whole series of shots for protection, if they are recommending a tetanus shot, then you arnt in danger. If you are they would reccomend the immunogloblin (Tig) then follow up with the tetanus series.

[ndunn]

Originally Posted by romans_mum

you are correct.......you need the whole series of shots for protection, if they are recommending a tetanus shot, then you arnt in danger. If you are they would reccomend the immunogloblin (Tig) then follow up with the tetanus series.

Ya I just wanted to clarify that, thanks!

My dad said when he goes to the hospital after stepping on a nail, they always give him a shot. I thought it was kinda wierd.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by prettypixels

Hey wow, that is true about the polio amongst the Amish...

Wow?

The article you posted in not accurate, along with many other reporters who jumped on the same bandwagon at the time.

From the MN Dept. of Health: “These cases do not represent a generalized outbreak of polio virus infection,” said Minnesota Health Commissioner Dianne Mandernach

Polio stats for Minnesota showing zero reported cases of polio for 2005:
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/i...lio/stats.html

[wonderwahine]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

Wow?

The article you posted in not accurate, along with many other reporters who jumped on the same bandwagon at the time.

From the MN Dept. of Health: “These cases do not represent a generalized outbreak of polio virus infection,” said Minnesota Health Commissioner Dianne Mandernach

Polio stats for Minnesota showing zero reported cases of polio for 2005:
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/i...lio/stats.html

thanks for the clarification LI, I knew the real info had to be somewhere

[Imvishta]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Alrighty, since you haven't posted on the main forum yet, I'm going to address this right here. It's typical that a chest x-ray would show no congestion with pertussis. Pertussis doesn't cause congestion. It damages the cilia of the lungs, making it extremely difficult to get rid of the normal, everyday amount of mucous that accumulates there. This isn't visible on an x-ray and it isn't audible with a stethoscope, but it's what causes the coughing.

Now, I have no idea when your birthday was, but the medications you're taking are not going to help your condition AT ALL and some of them will make it WORSE. Antibiotics do not cure pertussis at any stage of the illness, nor do they shorten the duration. This has been proven by a thorough review of all the literature. http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/502134

So the abx won't help you get better faster. The expectorant isn't going to help, because the cilia aren't functioning well enough to expectorate, no matter how thin and liquid the drug makes the mucous, you still can't cough it up and will still experience the coughing spells. An antihistamine isn't going to help you because you aren't having a histamine response to begin with. And the steroids will make you WORSE, because they weaken the immune system, making it even harder for your body to fight off illness and repair itself. If you want to get better, you need to stop taking them. If you don't have asthma, you shouldn't be treating yourself for asthma. Not your fault, I know, but now that you're aware it isn't asthma, why are you still taking the medications? Out of all those medications, the only thing that might help even a little bit is the decongestant, because it slows the production of mucous. It won't help much, though, because you're going to produce some mucous no matter what you take and remember, it's not the mucous that's the problem - it's your body's inability to get it out.

So for however long you've been using all this medication, you've been doing things that will not help at best (abx, antihistamines) and will make you sicker at worst (steroids). I feel terrible for you that you've been so sick. My DD had pertussis at 5.5 months and she was barely even sick. We didn't require any treatment whatsoever, and in general, pertussis is much, much, much more serious in infants of that age than in adults. The fact that your case is so severe is highly unusual.

The way to avoid such a severe case of pertussis is to take tons and tons and tons of vitamin C at the first sign of pertussis. It helps the body eliminate some of the toxins that damage the cilia, resulting in less damage, which in turn means less coughing. Vitamin C is also great for the immune system. We're not talking a few hundred milligrams here, though. We're talking about several grams a day for an adult.

Again, I'm sorry your case was so severe, but it would be a horrible mistake to ignore all the evidence that says pertussis is generally a mild illness, like this study http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/310/6975/299

simply because your case happened to be one of the rare incidents of more severe illness. Just as it would be illogical for me to say that pertussis in infants is mild because my daughter's case was mild, it is illogical for you to assume that pertussis is a generally serious illness just because your case was more severe. The evidence supports the conclusion that pertussis is a mild, self-limiting disease for the vast majority of people.

Thanks, Plummeting.

While I had not yet posted a reply I did take your advice into consideration along with others from elsewhere and did stop most of the medications, especially the steroid inhaler for asthma. My blood pressure, which has been relatively normal except for during my pregnancy, went to the level of Stage 2 Hypertension on the medication. (We have a home monitor from use during my pregnancy. While not always entirely accurate it was consistent with repeated tests.) I was really scared, but within about 24 hours of stopping the meds my BP returned to normal. Phew! And, since I've had pre-diabetes and/or am insulin resistant since my pregnancy I'm sure my blood sugar was high, as well. I just didn't even bother to test.

My DS's pediatrician's office was right on board with your advice, as well. I chose them specifically because they are more holistic in their treatment and do not over-prescribe antibiotics, something I feel has "ruined" my system over the years. So far (18 months) he has not taken any prescribed medications at all.

At this point I am simply desperate for some relief from this cough. You're right in that most adults do not have the severity of symptoms I've had, but those who have whose posts I've read online have all been equally as miserable and desperate. And, there's just nothing to help! I'm just exhausted. And, for my birthday two weeks ago, I received great tickets to see The Producers this Sunday night, but can not even begin to fathom sitting in the front of a crowded auditorium and coughing and gagging into a bag. I'm just so miserable and exhausted. : Whaaaa!

[Dar]

I've edited out about 15 posts from this thread that violate either user agreement or the forum guidelines. To be clear, it is *not* okay to be insultingly sarcastic toward another poster, to personally attack another person, or to use demeaning criticism towards another poster. It is also *not* okay to post any information to any thread in this forum that is not directoly useful to someone was has decided to vaccinate her child on a selective or delayed schedule.

Dar

[gingerwinston]

Rubella

Originally Posted by boston

Thank you for this information. I hadn't heard that before...

I was up to date with all my vaccines at the beginning of college in 2003. I just had a baby 3 months ago and the doctor said I had no immunity to Rubella. So even if you do get the Rubella vaccine before puberty, you can still lose immunity and end up needing the vaccine again, as in my case. However, never get the Rubella vaccine while pregnant as it can cause fetal abnormalities, and I personally wouldn't recommend getting it while breastfeeding either, just to be on the safe side.