Lovin' Mane N' Tail

[Spastica]

Just wanted to rave about using Mane N' Tail shampoo and conditioner. Both products are cheap, have very little bad ingredients, and work so WELL!

Depending on the shampoo you get, you can either purchase one with sodium lauryl sulfate and coco betaine in it, or one with sodium laureth sulfate. Looking at the EWG reports, actually, either one of those are not that big of a risk. SLES is milder than SLS though. Coco betaine is also a mild detergent.

My hair is loving it. I can use it on my dog too!

[Talon's Mom]

Are you still no-pooing in addition or strictly using this now? Just curious.

[Spastica]

I'm still no pooing, but using the Mane N' Tail conditioner for the ends. This week, I went to a live music bar and there was smoke everywhere and no-pooing didn't get all the smokey nastiness out, so I used the Mane N' Tail shampoo too.

Feels great!

If I use regular shampoo nowadays it feels icky and dry, even if I use Avalon shampoos (it seems to make my hair dry), but the Mane N' Tail is actually liking that I do no poo with it.

My hair doesn't have any static, has a good amount of slip, and it feels and looks thicker too. I'm thinking that I can use the shampoo once a week or less often and keep using the conditioner with my no poo regimen (from ears down).

[anneanne]

so are you doing no-poo with baking soda and acv AND the conditioner? or just baking soda and conditioner?

[Spastica]

If I'm no-pooing, I have to add baking soda (and sometimes brown sugar) to my Suave Tropical coconut conditioner, rinse with water, spray some ACV and put some Mane & Tail in the lower half of my hair, and then rinse it out. It's the only way my hair is staying bouncy, shiny, and not feel like straw in the winter. I also have curly hair, so as I understand it, it needs more moisture and oils than straight hair.

I used the Mane N' Tail shampoo the other day to get out the smoke smell from my hair and my hair still liked it; these days it doesn't like regular shampoo and it feels too stripped, but the Mane N' Tail was really nice and didn't ruin my no-poo. In fact, it feels like it's helping it. I shampoo'ed yesterday and today, all I had to do is put some conditioner (I used Suave so it won't weigh my hair down on the second day) on the ends of my hair.

No greasiness and no flat hair. Yay!

[solidcitizqueen]

I used Main N Tail for years (years ago), and loved it. Eventually, like everything else, your hair will get "bored" w/ it. When no-pooing (thanks so much for everything, btw) isn't "the bomb" on some days, I usually rectify it by washing w/ a goat's milk (Zum) bar, then honey, then condition (if needed), and then lavender water. I think your hair is like mine, from prior comparisons. I ran out of conditioner the other day, and ALMOST grabbed M&T, but the ingredients just didn't rub me right. I'd forgotten that I bought some stuff at Marshalls (organic from Zoochy??) and have been using that for now. I also bought some Aubrey Organics conditioner (thank goodness I don't use much, cuz it hurts the wallet) to try next. I haven't found my "it" for conditioners yet, but I'm working on it!

[granolamomma]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the SLSs bad for you, and are part of the reason people choose to no poo? This was quoted on a livejournal entry about no pooing:

SLS and SLFS (sodium lauryl sulfate, sodium laureth sulfate) are skin and eye irritants that also acts as a foaming agent in soaps, shampoos, toothpastes, dishwashing liquid... and just about anything that produces a foamy lather. The Materials Safety Data Sheet cautions to avoid body contact with SLS, it also puts infants and children (whose eye are developing at a more rapid rate) at risk for improper eye development when it's absorbed through the skin and accumulates in eye tissues. Because of residual levels in internal organs, it's questioned how safe our current rates of exposure are. "Debunkers", and companies who sell products containing these ingredients claim that the short exposure (shampoo and rinse) isn't enough for it to build up, and that by itself, in the dilution present within the product, the ingredient won't cause damage. This is basically true, however neither take into account recent reports (within the last five years), exposure due to the amount of products which contain SLS/SLFS and how often we use them, and the known chemical reaction with other ingredients commonly found in these products. While not carcinogens, both these substances, when mixed with other ingredients commonly found in shampoo bottles, may cause carcinogenic nitrates to form. Using it in moderation, and even in high amounts probably isn't going to kill you - but it's certainly not improving your health. The suggested safe percentage of SLS or SLFS to be used in products like shampoo and toothpaste isn't adhered to as often as it should be.

In its final report on the safety of sodium lauryl sulfate, the Journal of the American College of Toxicology notes that this ingredient has a "degenerative effect on the cell membranes because of its protein denaturing properties." What's more, the journal adds, "high levels of skin penetration may occur at even low use concentration."

Interestingly, sodium lauryl sulfate "is used around the world in clinical studies as a skin irritant," notes the journal. The publication expressed additional concerns:

* Carcinogenic nitrosamines can form in the manufacturing of sodium lauryl sulfate or by its inter-reaction with other nitrogen-bearing ingredients within a formulation utilizing this ingredient.
* Other studies have indicated that sodium lauryl sulfate enters and maintains residual levels in the heart, liver, lungs and brain from skin contact. This poses the question whether it could be a serious potential health threat from its use in shampoos, cleansers, and toothpastes.
* Still other research has indicated sodium lauryl sulfate may be damaging to the immune system, especially within the skin. Skin layers may separate and inflame due to its protein denaturing properties.
* Although sodium lauryl sulfate is not carcinogenic in experimental studies, it has been shown that it causes severe epidermal changes in the area it is applied, indicating a need for tumor-enhancing assays.
* Additional studies have found that sodium lauryl sulfate is heavily deposited on the skin surface and in the hair follicles. Damage to the hair follicle could result from such deposition.

Links: Material Safety Data Sheet [mineral oil]
SLS and SLES
Sodium Laureth Sulfate, 'Chemical Cocktail'
Snopes.com piece on rumors that SLS causes cancer.

[granolamomma]

I wasn't trying to be snarky, I really was curious if anyone had an opinion.

[Wild Flowers]

I actually agree. The reason we went no poo in this house was to avoid sls in all forms. So to me no poo is to avoid harsh deterrgents. We still will use our occaissonal avalon, used to get sunscreen and such out of hair. So to me no poo isn't just bs and acv. It is also using things like conditioner, eggs, I recently have tried just honey and like it pretty well, herbs and natural shampoos with no deterrgents. But I also understand if others, more purist, consider it just using things like bs or eggs or herbs, not including conditioners and natural shampoos. We have been doing this for almost 2 yrs now and we have tried to get rid of all deterrgents in our house, even for our dog. To be honest though, no poo has helped him especially since our move to this wet climate. The water just beads up on him. We have noticed it on our hair too. I am sure if we could shake our head like our dog that all the water would just come right off. Keeps you warmer I think

[Spastica]

I have read other reports that debunk the hype behind SLS - but I don't think a once a week or 2x a month shampoo is going to kill me either. Anyway, I know a lot of MDC'ers think SLS is evil at all costs, so I'm not going to start an argument here

Anyway, I MAY have found a solution to my dry ends that the ACV wasn't taking care of - coconut oil. I just experimented using a homemade soap bar to shampoo my hair, used a TON of apple cider vinegar so I wouldn't have soap residue, and then when I got out of the shower, I put two drops of coconut oil in my hands and rubbed it through the ends of my hair and then blow dried my hair.

Looks nice, feels soft, and my hair doesn't feel so dry like it has been.

Speaking of which, how do you guys do it -- I mean using homemade soap??? It's so darn drying! I've used Italian made Castile soap and a few handmade bars of soap, and I gotta tell you, it's much more drying than my Dove soaps. Am I alone in this? Or is my skin mondo weird? Even cleaning my hair with the bar soap, my hair felt squeaky clean in the shower (I know to use ACV afterward because I know natural soap leaves a film). I'll wax poetic later about coconut oil, I've been schmearing it all over myself after I shower and putting it on my face. It's been doing good things!

Back to natural soap -- I mean, I did feel honest-to-goodness spankin' clean like an American homesteader (hehehehehe) but yeah, it was drying and I felt like I ought to be scrubbing my clothes with a washboard and a big bar of harsh soap while I was at it...

[Wild Flowers]

I actually don't use soap at all. except for like I mentioned the avalon shampoo when there is major ickies. But that dries out my hair a bunch, so it really in a once in a blue moon type thing. To wash my body I use a salt scrub, just salt almond oil and some eos. I have very dry skin and it is very senstive to soaps. I do have bronners and soaps but they are mostly used for hands. I do agree with you on the coconut oil, it is pretty good stuff. If you ever get a chance try almond too. I actually like it slightly better for my hair. But everyones hair is different. I also hope I didn't come off wrong. It isn't up to me to tell people what is going to kill them. I mean, I may feel this way about sls but then you could get on my back about the McDs I had a week ago

[Spastica]

Originally Posted by VnJW

I also hope I didn't come off wrong. It isn't up to me to tell people what is going to kill them. I mean, I may feel this way about sls but then you could get on my back about the McDs I had a week ago

None of us are saints!

Next time I go to the farmers' market or Indian grocery store, I'll see if I can get the almond oil. It's great that it's food grade here and cheaper than what I would get at Whole Foods or something. Do you primarily use it as hair oil, body oil, carrier oil or what? Does it get rid of acne like coconut oil does? If you know the properties/benefits of almond oil, I'd love to know.

[Wild Flowers]

I haven't looked at benefits, but I had been using the coconut, to keep down hair frizzies, but it left my hair, it was weird, it was kinda dry almost and course? It kept my hair down, but I didn't like the feel of it. So I tried some almond which is also a light oil and it didn't make my hair feel funky. Mostly it is what I primarily use in my salt scrub. I don't use it on my skin straight so much because for some reason just putting it on my skin, it doesn't soak in very well, which makes it pretty decent for a massage oil. But it works very well for the salt scrub. I usually don't have to use oil straight on my skin after the scrub, I use it on my face also. The only other oil that goes on my body is I think it is kukui that is mixed with something to keep belly itchies down

[Spastica]

I've also noticed that coconut oil feels strange - but only if I put it on dry hair rather than wet hair. Usually people recommend oils to smooth dry hair, but it seems like 1 to 2 drops of coconut oil works better to condition if your hair is wet and then you blow dry it or leave it to air dry.