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How to convince mainstream mammas Babywise is evil? - Page 2

post #21 of 40
Thread Starter 
Yeah, and see if only most of these moms knew how evil Ezzo is as a person I can't imagine they would be willing to support him buy following his advice and buying his book. I feel like I really am going to have to do a ton of research, print a bunch off, and actually confront the one woman who is giving the books away. She is very prim and proper and religious...she just must know absolutly nothing about Ezzo or his other books or his programs and stuff.
I still just can not believe that so many woman are into this! And all the situations you all have been in with women supporting this program. It's just so unbelievable!!! and so sad, too.
post #22 of 40
Thread Starter 
So I just spent a long time going through the AAP web site and couldn't find anything they have recomended about not letting young babies cio. But it seems to me that back when my oldest was young (and I was considering cio) I kept reading about how you shouldn't let a baby younger than 6 months cio, etc. I also didn't find anything about how they do not condone Babywise, but I thought I remembered them saying that??? They did have some really solid policies on bf, though...worth printing out. And then of course they had a whole TON of crap about vaxes and co-sleeping and stuff....but we'll just ignore that stuff....
post #23 of 40
Lots of good stuff here, thanks. A new member on the main (not parenting-specific) online community I participate in just asked a question about how to handle her 3-year-old waking up in the middle of the night, "I usually just let her CIO", argh, great to have central repository of resources to hopefully convince her to change her ways...
post #24 of 40
youngnhappymamma~ that's a great idea! Instead of doing damage controll, just go to the source! I am sure once she knows the truth, she will stop! How could she not?!

lilyka~ wow, I knew it was bad, but I had no idea!
post #25 of 40
I also wanted to point out that Ezzo has been excommunicated from the last two churches he has been a member of and for the same reasons both times - he wasn't being ethical with his income ( it could have been a mistake but ), he lied about the extent of the problem and then refused to submit to the churches athourity (they wanted to investigate and help him out if here was some sort of problem) It was considered a non-profit misistry though the curch which is why they had atourity over him. Ironic how his whole deal is about submitting ot athourity and living by the rules and yet, he just couldn't do it. GFI is now considered a for profit enterprise. Power, money, control, just the sort of person we want raising up the next generation of Christians. :Puke (hey who rearranged all the smilies )
post #26 of 40
Anything you ever wanted to know about Ezzo http://www.ezzo.info/

Including a lot of stuf from the AAP.

This stuff is more than benignly mainstream it is *dangerous* and *evil* and I believe that it is especially dangerous to have one pro-ezzo voice in your church. (In my experience, and, believe me I've had experience, Ezzoites seem very able to spout off their pro-Ezzo rhetoric while more AP moms (especially within church situations) feel as though they must keep quiet to keep the peace.)

Do your research and please consider speaking out or your silence is tacid approval.

Debra Baker
post #27 of 40
I think my favorite part of Ezzo Parenting (note the STRONG sarcasam) is "couch time". This is where when the husband comes home the children are to remain away from him (but in the same room) and play quietly for at least 15 minutes while the husband and wife sit on the couch and discuss his day. The children are to remain in the room so that they can see how wonderful a relationship the husband and wife have. The reason I keep useing the terms "husband and wife" because Ezzo feels that the children should not be the center of the family, that the marriage should. They say that children are manipulative and are "takers".

If I ever told my hubby that he couldn't love and cuddle with the kids when he got home he would think I had been smokin crack! I think he says hello to them before he says hello to me.

One woman mentioned to me BabyWise, about the feeding/sleeping schedule and I interrupted her with "my kids already have a feeding/sleeping schedule....the eat when they are hungry and sleep when they are tired!"

I am glad I can come here and realize that not all parents seem to have lost their minds!
post #28 of 40
Originally posted by sohj
On thursday, April 24th, the Washington Post had an article about Ezzo.
I haven't been able to find this on their website.....could someone post a link if you have it?
post #29 of 40
I finally got the reference from my father on the Washington Post article on Ezzo. It wasn't recent. I don't know why he brought it up at that moment.:

But, anyhow, it is interesting that it was out there and I'm going to look for it and read it for myself.

"A Tough Plan for Raising Children Draws Fire". Washington Post, February 27, 1999.
post #30 of 40
Because you are dealing with friends from church I think a good way to approach it is from a decidedly Christian perspective. There is a magazine called Christian Research Journal that did two indepth articles on the MANY problems with not only the reality but the Biblical aspects of Babywise and the Ezzo philosophy in general. I can't remember the exact year but I think it was approximately 4 years ago.

One word of caution though - I gave the article to a very Pro-Ezzo friend of mine and he refused to even read it. Ezzo doctrine tends to discourage ANY and ALL debate or disagreements.

But the article did help me alot. Until then my friends had me convinced it was the only way to raise children.
post #31 of 40

Reflections of Moral Innocence -- Ezzo sex ed

I hadn't heard of the Ezzo sex-ed program, so I did some research and yep, it's scarily true.

It's a series called "Reflections of Moral Innocence." Here's a quote from a review on www.ezzo.info:

RMI methodology is predicated on the premise that word connotation and denotation are essentially invariable. Ezzo accents two techniques. First is reliance upon ambiguous genitalia names ("hiney," "bottom," " pee-pee," and "little bum") that are judged to be "morally neutral." In contrast, specific labels or medical terms are indicted for encouraging "evil imagination" that "runs wild." Similar censure is directed toward anatomically correct dolls, home birthing videos, explicit books and pictures.

A second RMI instructional feature is utilization of flowers as models to explain human reproduction. Like vague names for genitalia, flowers are postulated to be "morally neutral" and are extolled as accurate illustrations of human beginnings. RMI clients are frequently reminded to go back to the flowers.

You can read the full text at http://www.ezzo.info/Articles/coates_romi.htm

I'm sorry to say most of the other hits on Google are churches offering this program to their congregation. One describes it as "a proactive, intentional approach to dealing with this topic in a way that protects your marriage and avoids forcing your children into premature adulthood." :


post #32 of 40
I think it would help if church people would stop and think for two seconds how Jesus was actually raised. In a culture where families slept together, moms and babies stayed together all day, and babies nursed (with no clocks in sight) til they were three-ish. If they think God really planned all this, why not follow insticts he gave us instead of some stupid little evil book?
What a truly awesome idea. Duh Sure makes sense, doesn't it.
post #33 of 40
Ugh, that's terrible. And as much as it may turn your stomach to read this, I've heard that many pedophiles find the use of childish terms for genitalia very arousing, BECAUSE they are childish.
post #34 of 40
Ezzo's ROMI is particularly evil (IMHO)

And as far as creating children who are vulnerable to pediphiles this artificially niave environment coupled with Ezzo's insistance that children submit to adults (and that "shyness" is sinful in other words if Aunt Tilly wants a kiss the child *must* give Aunt Tilly a kiss) the *adult* is always right and the child (who is low on the social pecking order) is *always* wrong!! these children are completely vulnerable.

Ezzo doesn't believe that *parents* have the sense to be able to gradually and appropriately educate their children regarding sex and reproduction.

When has ignorance ever been the answer?? No, I can see why *I* was kicked out of an Ezzofying church, oh me who actually had my older children *present* at the younger child(ren)'s births.

My children know the medical term for their body parts (pee-pee, p-lease!!) They know how their bodies *work*!!!

Ezzo, ug, do any of you remember the book (movie) "Carrie" in which poor (gifted) Carrie was being reared by a religious freak mother and she got her period in the girls locker room in gym class. Didn't know what was happening to her!! I'm afraid *that's* happening to these poor Ezzofied girls when they reach puberty.

Plus they don't know about actual sex (as in intercourse) until their wedding night!!!

Can you imagine!!

post #35 of 40
Originally posted by DebraBaker

Plus they don't know about actual sex (as in intercourse) until their wedding night!!!

Can you imagine!!

Right! Imagine the awkward wedding night of two poor young "morally innocent" newlyweds, both Ezzofied from birth, who know absolutely nothing about the mechanics of sex. I don't really think the flower model is going to do them a whole lot of good.

Hey, maybe the whole idea is for them to just never figure it out at all! WDYT?
post #36 of 40
"Hey, maybe the whole idea is for them to just never figure it out at all! WDYT?"

So Ezzo is really out to discontinue the species?:

Well, you never know.:
post #37 of 40
Hey, if people like Ezzo stop reproducing, who are we to complain?
post #38 of 40
I just have to butt in and say that Ezzo isn't the only one who suggests raising teens (children) in this way. Many churches bring up children in the same respect. I was brought up this way, and to make a long story short, it left me vulnerable for all sorts of problems. Sexual disfunctions, misunderstanding about bodily functions, not understand importance of bc. Honestly I could go on and on and on.

It is such a dangerous road parents take when they ill equip their children for "real" life and the problems that may arise. I know it made me face up to some real life issues at a very young age when I know it could have easily been avoided. I have learned about Ezzo and would love to squash his narrow minded arse However, I must be content in just educating and loving as many children and teens that I can.

-Stepping off soap box- to introduce myself I hope to get to know more of you better.

post #39 of 40
I was just getting ready to start this very same thread after talking to my friend last night who just had her first babe May 9th. She's more mainstream than me - but I got her Dr. Sears' Baby Book hoping to give her some info on AP, BF and birth. We caught up last night for the first time since the birth and she tells me they've decided not to AP because they want the baby to be more indepedent (which made me wonder did she even bother to read the book because he talks about this very thing : ), then she follows that with "we're doing Ezzo Baby Wise" and I about choked and spit up (where did that hurling icon go?). And then she proceeds to tell me how they want her to have a schedule and she knows some parents who's whole lives are completely swallowed up by their kids and yet how hard it is to let your baby cry.

So I tried to be diplomatic even though I wanted to . I told her my business partner (lactation consultant) has had babies fail to thrive on this program and to please be careful with this.

I realize that AP isn't for everyone (although I think if they could see it in action - not just the imagined "I'll constantly be at my baby's beck and call and never ever have a life again" - they might rethink that). But for crying out loud - NOT EZZO

I can't help but feel ethically obligated to say more. I think she really has no idea, it's just Ezzo does such a darn good anti-AP, pro-perfect baby snow job why wouldn't anyone go along with it?! So I'll check out the sites, pass on the info and then it's up to her and what she's comfotable with. But her poor one month old crying herself to sleep

post #40 of 40

Your friend says, " they want her to have a schedule and she knows some parents who's whole lives are completely swallowed up by their kids and yet how hard it is to let your baby cry.

Y'know this is part of the Ezzo attraction....parents can behave in unbelievably *selfish* ways and, because of Ezzo, NOT GUILT about it!!!!!

This man is essentially creating an entire subculture of insensitive calloused selfish parents!

Yes, you have a moral obligation to warn your friend....Think about it what's the worst that could happen? You could *lose* your friend but would you want to keep a friend with such a frozen heart?

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