anti-supplement argument?

[bonberi]

I've seen references here and there to people wanting to avoid dietary supplements/vitamins. What is the reasoning behind this? I just started magnesium and zinc/copper after reading Gale Force's manuscript, and I'm feeling great!

[MyLittleWonders]

I don't have any issue with supplements, though if I can get the same thing from whole foods, that's better. We supplement w/ magnesium, zinc, B-complex, 5-htp and gaba. I'm hoping to eliminate the zinc and b-complex if I can get enough liver and brewers yeast in me. If not, I'll still supplement. But, ultimately I feel the food approach to be the best way of doing it, if possible.

[Gale Force]

I'm all for them if they help you out of a rut. Right now I am taking nothing but the freeze dried liver because of the B-vitamin challenge. But it's taken a while to get to this point. I was taking a lot of minerals and amino acids until about nine months ago.

[Tcarwyn]

I am also not against supplementing and there are even some valid arguments to be made for the fact that it might actually be impossible today to get all the nutrients you need from food, even if you were to eat the best possible diet. My mentor, Paul Bergner, wrote a book on minerals ( http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Minera...e=UTF8&s=books)
and did tons of research into the minerals found in food. He found that many vegetables contain less then 1/5th the amounts of most minerals they did in the 1960's and that was already way less then the amounts they had around the turn of the century. Eating organic produce ups doubles the amount, baut that is still only 2/5's of what it was 45 years ago. That means you would have to eat 5 times the amount of brocolli you would have to eat in 1960...

Anyway, I take magnesium, sometimes vitamin c, chromium when I get sugar cravings. I do plan on starting to sue some of the superfood like the clay for minerals etc.

As for the argument against supplements, first of all they tend to not be very well absorbed, stressing liver and kidneys and they usually lack nessesary co-factors.



Tanya

[zoebird]

as a pp said, my preference is to get all the nutrients that i need from whole foods rather than from supplements (such as a zinc pill). I've never taken well to taking vitamins--even as a child--and never been consistant about it. But, i have a very healthy, diverse diet which gives me all the nutrients that i need.

if i feel that i need a 'boost' then i'll utilize whatever will 'boost' me. I'm considering taking CLO (which i do not consider a 'supplement' in the same sense as i would a zinc pill) for DHA, but i could also take an algae-based pill for DHA (i'm vegetarian). So, i have not yet decided. to me, one is a supplement (pill), and the other is a food (CLO).

but, we'll see how that goes as i think on it more.

[newcastlemama]

I think supplements are a blessing when you want to fix a nutrient defiency fast. I agree with Tanya that they usually don't contain co-factors and may not be utilized by your body as well as superfoods.

It reminds me of people taking straight calcium supplements and still having osteoperosis. All the co-factors are not there and so the body cannot use it in that form. I think one of the worst things to do is eat a SAD diet and take a muti and feel good about that. I know so many people who do this. (Not saying you do!)

That said, I may still keep taking a mineral supplement (and I eat traditonal foods)...I am still looking into the azomite powder for that though. I also could get enough Bs if I am diligent with the liver. (I have an inherited condition called pyroluria where I need A LOT of zinc and B6. I still have to learn more about it to see if I could get enough from foods)

Tanya-I need to read more about the produce being deficient. I am starting an orachard and garden and want to grow food that is as nutrient dense as possible.

I would think that if you eat the most nutriet dense diet you can and have some symptoms of defiencies, find them out and then supplement those defiencies for a while and see how you feel. I like Country Life Total Mins, Coenzyme B-Complex and Twin Lab chelated zinc right now for my isues. I also take aminos but I am tapering off those as well.

Jen

[nicolelynn]

My anatomy and physiology teacher in massage school was a traditionally schooled MD turned Naturopath doctor. She is pretty against supplements...UNLESS your body is truly sick....then supplements are better than pharmaceuticals. She says that your body naturally produces many nutrients...and if you take them in supplement form your body will become dependant on that and stop producing them.

Yet....it is true most of us don't get enough nutrients, so whole foods supplements are the next best thing. If not daily, I am going to try to get CLO in myself and family a few times a weeks as DH won't eat liver or fish so he needs those nutrients supplemented. Other than that I don't want to become dependant on supplements. I am investing more money in whole foods. Instead of taking vitamin C... I eat a variety of vitamin C rich produce daily, etc .

However..since I have horrible teeth (from my "past life) and an infection in my jaw still after 2 rounds of antibiotics wouldn't do the trick...I am taking a variety of supplements to help my immune system fight this off: CLO, garlic, acerola powder, Garden of Life's probiotic blend, etc. I plan on doing this for a few months.

[Mommay]

I've heard that synthetic supplements are often useless and sometimes bad for you. Sally Fallon talked about this at a lecture I attended. A form of synthetic D, I think D2, actually does the opposite of what we expect D to do - harden soft tissue and soften hard ones. Also, synthetic vitamins prevent naturally occuring ones from being taken up. Since the lecture, I've tried to decrease my supplements to just CLO. I do think ds and I are eating well enough to go without supplementation. I might consider a whole foods mineral supplement though. That's a good point about soil depletion. I keep hearing about it, but maybe I should start taking that seriously.

Zoebird, something else SF talked about was the importance of CLO, but for its A and D vitamins and cofactors, and not for its dha. She actually discouraged taking other kinds of fish oil for the very fact of their absence of adequate amounts of A and D. That might be something to think about.

[*Di]

As for the argument against supplements, first of all they tend to not be very well absorbed, stressing liver and kidneys and they usually lack nessesary co-factors.

Do you think this is also true of "whole foods" supplements ?

(I take Megafood women's daily which is made from 100% whole foods, just to be on the "safe" side in case I don't eat enough of all nutrients in a day)

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by *Di

Do you think this is also true of "whole foods" supplements ?

(I take Megafood women's daily which is made from 100% whole foods, just to be on the "safe" side in case I don't eat enough of all nutrients in a day)

No. The way I have read and understood it the problem is with synthetic forms of vitamins/minerals. I am anti-supplements unless they are food derived and properly formulated. Then I think it actually may be necessary because of the lack of nutrients in most foods. I have seen several graphs that chart the decline of nutrients in specific foods over the years.

[Tcarwyn]

Originally Posted by newcastlemama

Tanya-I need to read more about the produce being deficient. I am starting an orachard and garden and want to grow food that is as nutrient dense as possible.


Jen

Your answer is rockdust, as far as I know ( have have two very non-green thumbs, so I am not that sure) I think that is what biodynamic farmers use. Also some traditional farming methodes manage to keep up the quality of the soil, but only by returning EVERYTHING to it, bones, compost, manure ( of animals and people) etc etc. Soil microbes are aslo very important ( they are the plant probiotics, so to speak

Originally Posted by firefaery

No. The way I have read and understood it the problem is with synthetic forms of vitamins/minerals. I am anti-supplements unless they are food derived and properly formulated. Then I think it actually may be necessary because of the lack of nutrients in most foods. I have seen several graphs that chart the decline of nutrients in specific foods over the years.

I only partially agree...often so called whole foods supplements are still combined inappropriatedly, just so they can put on the label 100% rda of this or that. That means still extracting vitamins, combining them in ratios that are the not the ones in nature...But yeah, they sure are better then supermarket vitamins

There is actually one whole foods supplement I can whole heartedly recommend ( mucho $$$ though...) and it is Vitamineral Greens. That is the only supplement I have ever taken that gave me a real effect with in a a day or two. It is juiced and powdered whole greens, herbs, seaweed and enzymes and probiotics all organic or ethically wild crafted....great stuff. However, anything but clo, co or magnesium has been making me throw up lately ( nope, I am not pregnant) so I am taking a clue from my body and not supplementing right now...

Tanya

[Panserbjorne]

That's why I specified properly formulated. It makes a difference. I would not recommend a whole foods vitamin off the shelf, in fact I don't use a multi. I use vitamineral greens (or living greens from NFL) and a B supplement. I also use magnesium, iodine and SA with bioflavanoids. That's the extent of my supplements. I don't consider CLO a supplement, to me it's a food.

[*Di]

That's interesting.... thanks.

Can you let me know what these are:
- NFL
- SA

[Panserbjorne]

NFL= Nature's First Law www.rawfood.com My favorite raw store, they have alot of great stuff.

SA= Sodium Ascorbate, the better form of vitamin C.

[rayo de sol]

I'm only against taking synthetic vitamins and minerals, which is practically every brand of multi out there. Supplements like CLO and whole foods supplements (that are 100% from foods with no added synthetic nutrients) are fine in my book. I sometimes take supplements from Standard Process, which is the only company I know of that is totally food-based with no synthetic vitamins added. What do other people think of Standard Process supplements?

[bonberi]

Originally Posted by firefaery

That's why I specified properly formulated. It makes a difference. I would not recommend a whole foods vitamin off the shelf, in fact I don't use a multi. I use vitamineral greens (or living greens from NFL) and a B supplement. I also use magnesium, iodine and SA with bioflavanoids. That's the extent of my supplements. I don't consider CLO a supplement, to me it's a food.

firefaery- what brands are your B and mag, if you don't mind my asking?

Thanks, everyone, for your input!

[peridot83]

What do you guys think of Rainbow Light multis? I never really supplemented before, but purchased thier prenatal after seeing a lot of recs on MDC. It is food based and I like that it contains herbs like RRL, some enzymes, etc along with the standard vitamins. I do notice that I feel better when I take it, which I never really felt before. Right now I just take the RL's along with Carlson's CLO, and am wondering if I would be better off moving to a super food powder or something.