That weird thing they do - Page 3

[Changed]

Yes this thread is really interesting!


Gilli, were you going to answer the question about "locs"?


Oh ya, Pagan here too. I'm currently wondering in my path between Heathen and Norse Wicca. I'd be happy to answer any questions that I am able.

[NewCrunchyDaddy]

Originally Posted by sehbub

This is incredibly interesting. Thank you all for doing this!

I have a question for the Mormons.

I heard at some point in my life that Mormon men held the belief that they made their way in to heaven based partly on the good works of their wives and children, which is why the average family is so large.

Like I said, I was a kid, and dismissed it as total fallacy, btw. Just curious.

This one is new to me. As far as I know and have been able to research there is no doctrine either current or old that backs up this idea. It may be that some unscrupulous men have held this belief and lorded it over their families, but if there are, they would be out of sync with LDS doctrine and beliefs. So...

It could also be a bastardization of the idea expressed in 1 Corinthians 11:11 which states "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord." meaning that a man and woman are incomplete without each other and a marriage of faithfulness and fidelity to one's spouse edifies one another.

But, you're right ... it is 100% fallacy.

[lolar2]

Most of the neighborhoods where I grew up had a lot of LDS families. I've heard that it is rude to refer to LDS as "Mormons," but my neighbors when I was growing up would always say they were Mormons if the subject came up. Why didn't they try to get us to say LDS? For that matter, why didn't they ever say LDS themselves? This was in the mid-eighties to mid-nineties, if that makes a difference.

[Shenjall]

Originally Posted by merpk

A bar/bat mitzva means the child (13 for a boy, 12 for a girl) has reached the stage of adult obligation in the mitzvot. Meaning they are responsible for their own spiritual growth and lives.

A bar/bat mitzva is *not* a party. Though most everyone throws a party to celebrate their children reaching that age. If someone is Jewish, even if they don't have a party, they have still had their bar/bat mitzva. FWIW I didn't have a party either. Big bashes are not my family's style. b'H.

I had no idea that the party was optional. I always thought it didnt happen without the party. Thank you for explaining it. My mennonite IL keep asking me a whole bunch of questions regarding Judaism (I guess since my father was I've become their "expert". )

One last, little, stupid question.......what does covenant mean?

[NewCrunchyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Shenjall

I had no idea that the party was optional. I always thought it didnt happen without the party. Thank you for explaining it. My mennonite IL keep asking me a whole bunch of questions regarding Judaism (I guess since my father was I've become their "expert". )

One last, little, stupid question.......what does covenant mean?

Simply speaking - a covenant is a two-way promise. You can make legal covenants ... but in a religious context a covenant is a promise between a person and G-d.

This is from the LDS Bible Dictionary entry for Covenant:

"Sometimes denotes an agreement between persons (1 Samuel 23:18) or nations (1 Samuel 11:1); more often between G-d and man; but in this latter case it is important to notice that the two parties to the agreement do not stand in the relation of independent and equal contractors. G-d in His good pleasure fixes the terms, which man accepts. The same word is sometimes rendered "testament." The Gospel is so arranged that principles and ordinances are received by covenant placing the recipient under strong obligation and responsibility to honor the commitment. Thus the severe consequences to Ananias and Sapphira, who deliberately broke their covenant and lied unto God (Acts 5:1-11)."

For example, in Mormonism, the sacrament (bread and water) is a covenant. A person who partakes of the sacrament promises that they will take upon them the name of Jesus Christ (i.e. be a disciple/follower of Christ) and that they will follow G-d's commandments. For His part, G-d promises that if we do these things, we will have His spirit to be with us (i.e. that we can experience personal guidance and help and revelation from G-d for our lives).

[NewCrunchyDaddy]

Originally Posted by lolar2

Most of the neighborhoods where I grew up had a lot of LDS families. I've heard that it is rude to refer to LDS as "Mormons," but my neighbors when I was growing up would always say they were Mormons if the subject came up. Why didn't they try to get us to say LDS? For that matter, why didn't they ever say LDS themselves? This was in the mid-eighties to mid-nineties, if that makes a difference.

Its not "rude" per se ... it was used as a derogatory term in the early days of the Church ... but has since passed into everyday parlance. However, in the 90s there was an effort in the Church to move from "Mormon" to "LDS" or "Latter-day Saint" or just simply "Saint" (meaning a follower of G-d) and away from such terms as "Mormon Church" and "Mormons" and emphasizing the fact that the name of the Church, since the the mid 1830s has been The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (As revealed to Joseph Smith by Jesus Christ in a revelation in 1838 (eight years after the Church was founded)) This was because there were a lot of other Christian denominations that were demonizing the Church saying we weren't Christians and didn't worship Jesus Christ ... even though the name of Christ was in the official name of the Church.

[sehbub]

So should I stop using the term "Mormon" and use LDS instead? I certainly don't want to offend anyone, even out of simple ignorance. My sister's best friend is LDS, and she's never corrected us, so I had no idea.

[NewCrunchyDaddy]

Originally Posted by sehbub

So should I stop using the term "Mormon" and use LDS instead? I certainly don't want to offend anyone, even out of simple ignorance. My sister's best friend is LDS, and she's never corrected us, so I had no idea.

In those terms ... I don't think it matters. I have never been offended by being called a "Mormon." The shift was really for more formal settings - such as news articles, TV news reports and things like that. I would recommend asking your sister's best friend which she would prefer you use - that might be the best course to go about forestalling any future misunderstandings or offenses if you are that concerned about it. Otherwise - it really is six of one, half a dozen of the other to a vast majority of the membership of the Church.

Though I probably should point out that officially, the title of members of the Church is "Saint" or "Latter-day Saint." Mormon - we believe - was an ancient American prophet and the abridger/compiler of The Book of Mormon, so technically speaking ... calling a member a "Mormon" is - again technically - incorrect. However, that being said, as I said above to a vast majority of the Church's membership it doesn't really matter and again I would suggest bringing it up to your sister's friend and seeing what she thinks about it. I think you'll find - if she is anything like the members I know - that she'll be surprisingly open to your questions.

[rootzdawta]

Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog

My question: what is the significance of dreadlocks, for those who have them as part of your spiritual tradition?

The practice of allowing one's hair to lock (basically to not comb one's naturally curly hair) is a tradition of the RastafarI livity (faith/lifestyle). For RastafarI, locks are not to be combed or styled in any way--they are simply allowed to grow out and form. Some RastafarI do separate the locks but some do not. Personally, I will be separating ds' locks simply because it's easier to wash and care for the scalp that way, in my opinion. Anyway, locks are extremely significant in RastafarI culture because they represent a sincere and complete desire to be set apart from Western (European or White) culture. It is a true expression of Blackness since it is the natural texture of African hair that makes locking possible. RastafarI do not shy away from calling locks "dreadlocks" because indeed they are supposed to look dreadful to the eyes of Westerners. RastafarI are not afraid to be separate and even aim for that. One major goal of RastafarI is to "go to the hills" or leave Babylon (the West) for there is no life for African people there--only oppression and sorrow. So wearing dreadlocks is a declaration of separateness and rebellion--and also devotion to HIM Haile Selassie I, emperor of Ethiopia who RAstafarI regard as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Conquering Lion of the tribe of Judah--manifestation of "God" in flesh. So the locks are also symbolic of a lion's mane or a crown. Another thought on locks is that locks look organic or alive and are often regarded as a reminder to look to one's roots and to be as natural as possible (organic and vegetarian foods, no chemical medicines/drugs). Locks are also seen as "antennae" that connect one to Jah (the Almighty). These days, locks have become fashionable but most RastafarI do not buy into the fashion aspect and wear their locks completely natural (no chemical hair care products, combing or styling). RastafarI sistren generally cover their locks when outside of their gates (homes) and at Binghi (worship service) and most Bredrin also cover their locks when outside but remove the covering at Binghi. Locks are sacred and since they are viewed as antennae, covering keeps strangers eyes from staring and negative, unwanted energy away as well as people from touching (sometimes people will reach and tough locks just because they have never seen them before). Covering the locks then serves as a first line of defense.

Well, I hope that answered the question.

RastafarI liveth.

[Nabbe]

Thats so interesting to read about RastafarI. My brother is a rastafarI too, he came to faith (if I can say so...) almost 20 yrs ago. First we thought it was just the hair, but now we know its the faith too...

[BelgianSheepDog]

Thanks, Rootzdawta, lots there that I had never heard before!

[HomeBirthMommy]

This is such a wonderful thread. Thank you everyone for sharing.

[ChasingPeace]

I have a question for LDS/Mormons. I've heard that when a woman is born she receives a secret name from her father and when she marries, her father tells the secret name to her husband (the woman herself does not know the name). The secret name is important because a woman cannot enter heaven unless her husband calls her by her secret name. Is this true? If so, what if a woman doesn't marry? What if a woman's father dies before she marries?

[NewCrunchyDaddy]

Originally Posted by ChasingPeace

I have a question for LDS/Mormons. I've heard that when a woman is born she receives a secret name from her father and when she marries, her father tells the secret name to her husband (the woman herself does not know the name). The secret name is important because a woman cannot enter heaven unless her husband calls her by her secret name. Is this true? If so, what if a woman doesn't marry? What if a woman's father dies before she marries?

It's half-true. Everyone - male and female - recieves a "new name" when they go through a temple for the first time. You recieve it personally and never reveal it to anyone else. The only time that it is revealed is when a man and woman are married.

There is a ceremony that takes place in the temple where this name is used. Normally it is done with a trained temple worker and the member is doing proxy work on behalf of the dead (using the "new name" given to the deceased). However, before a man and woman are married, the husband-to-be takes the place of the temple worker and performs the ceremony with his wife-to-be and she uses the name she recieved in the temple the first time she went through.

Her father is never involved. The reason that it works this way (the wife tells the husband her "new name" and not vice versa) is because the doctrine of the Church is that at the final days - when the general resurrection of mankind occurs - the husband, in the office of his priesthood as a husband - will use this name to call his wife forth and - effectively - resurrect her when he is directed to do so. Of course, this won't happen until the Second Coming of Christ and is not something that happens willy-nilly.

As for your question of what happens if a woman doesn't marry - I don't know (and haven't been able to dig up an "official" answer) - but a general answer is that G-d has ways of making His designs/plans work for everyone no matter what their situation.

I don't know if that answers your question or raises more, but I hope it helped somewhat

[sehbub]

Do LDS practice infant baptism as a removal of original sin? I've always been confused as to why most Christian faiths did this (I was raised Catholic) since babies are so pure, IMO.

I know 7th Day Adventists do a dedication, in which they promise to raise their children in that faith and give the children the necessary skills to choose their own path in life.

DH and I are doing a lot of soul searching right now as to how we want to raise our children, religiously speaking. I simply can not in good faith (and especially with gay family members and various other issues) raise my children Catholic, as much as it saddens me (and my parents!) to say that. This thread is raising a lot of questions for me as to what will most incorporate our beliefs.

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy

This is actually NCDaddy's DW - we women will never receive the priesthood because we don't need it. It's a compensatory power that puts men under obligation to do things that women already do naturally - serve others, act intuitively and lead. This is coming from a very feminist woman, mind you. I do not need the priesthood, not even to give blessings. Women in the early church placed their hands on people's heads and blessed them all the time. I don't know why they don't do it more often, but we can, with our faith alone.

This is a very nice answer. It reminds be a bit of the reason Judaism gives for women not needing to perform many of the mitzvos in which men are obligated. (The reason is, in short, that women do not need the spiritual discipline of these mitzvos, because we are naturally closer to Hashem.)

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy

(BTW, women don't have to wear skirts all the time on campus, jeans, shorts and pants are fine ... just as long as they conform to the Dress Code.)

Oh, I didn't know that, like I said I'm just going off of things I've heard.

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by sehbub

Do LDS practice infant baptism as a removal of original sin? I've always been confused as to why most Christian faiths did this (I was raised Catholic) since babies are so pure, IMO.

Not LDS, but, no, I don't believe they do. From what I observed, LDS members get baptized around pre-teen age (I guess when they know right from wrong, can make the decision themselves, etc.). LDS seem to have a different understanding of Adam and Eve than most I've heard from, so it would not surprise me if they were not big on the concept of "original sin", but someone LDS will have to answer that!

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by sehbub

Do LDS practice infant baptism as a removal of original sin? I've always been confused as to why most Christian faiths did this (I was raised Catholic) since babies are so pure, IMO.

i'm not as awesome as NCD or Alicia but i'll try and answer this as simply as possible.
no. LDS children are not baptised until the age of 8.

i found a great article on the subject... Salvation of Little Children

and a scripture that pretty much sums it up (here)

D&C 93:38
Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning; and God having redeemed man from the fall, men became again, in their infant state, innocent before God.

[BinahYeteirah]

Originally Posted by rootzdawta

Anyway, locks are extremely significant in RastafarI culture because they represent a sincere and complete desire to be set apart from Western (European or White) culture. It is a true expression of Blackness since it is the natural texture of African hair that makes locking possible.

Is RastafarI a religion that is only for people of color or people of African descent? Or is it considered open to all, but the "cultural" elements are focused on POC?