For those who circ'd #1 and not your other ds...need advice - Page 2

[TigerTail]

Originally Posted by GoodMomma

Hopefully your DH will come around.

Whether her DH comes around or not, she can still say 'no, period'. Her first obligation is to protect her baby. Negotiation has no place in this, in a country where women have civil rights (I feel for anti-circ moms in countries that have no real choice .

[Microsoap]

Originally Posted by cjarvis

Thank you for all your replies.

I talked to dh last night and he has a reason for doing the circ and I have my reasons for not. He remembers kids in school being teased because they were uncirc'd and he is really worried about the emotional conflicts that could be upon our ds because he is not circ'd. Whereas I am worried about the emotional and pain of the actual circ. So, he said we both have our reasons based on our emotions, which is true.

So does anyone have teenagers or older boys who have problems being teased?

Thanks,
Crystal

Were those boys your husband remembers teased because they were intact, or because they were the easiest to tease, KWIM?

What would you do if the dad was overweight and the son had a thin build; have him eat more? Why do parents get all obsessed with making sure dads and sons look alike in the penis department, but willingly accept any other differences they may have in any physical characteristics? It seems totally insane to me.

I think if parents know they've made a mistake and keep doing it (circ'ing every son that comes along), what's it say to the ones who have suffered the violation when the parents knew better, but still did it? Seems even more unfair to them. If that makes sense to anyone (?). If a parent had a short temper and beat the older kid (s) but decide to use better parenting skills for the younger, you'd applaude them. Same goes for leaving your sons intact. The chain of abuse is actually easy to break, if you put HIS rights ahead of all things else: And THAT'S what being intactivist is all about!!!!

Good luck to you!

http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/5...rcumcision.htm

[iris0110]

Goodmomma, She is my SIL so I try to tread lightly. When she asked about us not circ'ing ds2 I pointed out all of the problems caused by circ and tried to gently remind her of her own son's problems. But she still thinks that intact is gross. : I hope she and my brother never have more kids anyway, but if they do I hope they have girls.


To the OP. My boys are still little, but a good friend of mine in highschool was intact. He never had any problems in the locker room at all. He said you did your best not to notice another guys equipment for fear of being teased for looking. I wish I would have talked to him more about it all before ds1 was born. I didn't ask for the circ, but if I had been better educated I could have told them not to do it. My friend is very happy to be an intact man. He is 23 now.

[mesa]

I have a circ'd 7 year old and an intact 3 (almost 4) year old. It was never a question for me when I saw what they did to my first baby, I swore it would never happen to another child of mine.

As for them looking different, I have not had that issue so far, and my boys bathe together to save water. Never had a comment of any kind. Now, I can't say it won't come up in the future, but if it does, I will just explain that when Nicolas was born, I didn't know any better, but I learned a lot from that experience to know that it shouldn't happen.

Someone told me something extremely comforting in the weeks after Noah's birth, when I was reliving the guilt and trauma of Nicolas' circ.....When you know better, you do better.

I don't want to guilt trip you or anything, but because you know the risks and drawbacks of circ, and the very real benefits of leaving your child intact, to go ahead and cut him for some intangible "reason" like him looking different is, to me, the epitome of knowing better, but doing it anyway, and so so sad. What will you say if yoru adult son approaches you to ask why you cut him? (as happened with my xDH...he and his brothers were only cut because their oldest brother was cut against their wishes in the hospital). Will you tell him that you performed a cosmetic surgery on him to make him look like his brother? Will you say that you did it to his brother out of ignorance, but learned more and KNEW it was wrong when he was born, yet did it anyway?

Please don't concern yourself with any potential differences your sons may face. Trust me, they will have so many differences that the status of each other's penises will be a moot point. Nicolas is studious and artistic, Noah is rambunctious and athletic. Nicolas is mature for his age and extremely empathetic, Noah is a crazy hugger, wild lover, and a very physical, adoring, beautiful child. Nicolas has blonde hair and green eyes, Noah has red hair and brown eyes. Nicolas is tall and thin, Noah is shorter and chubbier. They couldn't care less what their penises look like, at least right now.

[bobbiedoc]

amendment

17 functions of the foreskin www. circumcisions.com/Functions.html

38 ggod reasons not to circumcise www.circumstitions.com/reasonsnotto.html

what is lost on www.sexuallymutilatedchild.org/lost.htm

[DreamsInDigital]

bobbiedoc, thank you for posting those links!

[cjarvis]

Wow, this thread just got so many posts. Thank you , thank you for all your replies.

I know I don't want to circ, dh and I just need to talk again and he said he is going to read the information I have found for him. I am sure this is just hard because in a way it is all new territory for us, no circ and no vax or delay (haven't decided yet).

I really appreciate all the time and information you have provided.

Thanks again,
Crystal

[mamatoElias]

Its nice to hear that it isn't a big issue for the kids if one is circ'd and one is not. My 21 mos old son is circumcised. I was opposed, but my husband insisted and I finally gave in, but I WON'T do that again. We are expecting baby #2 in April, but we aren't finding out the gender. If its a boy, I won't circ. My husband is LIVID and insists that since both he and my son are circ'd, our baby has to be. It was just so awful with my first son and I feel horrible about it because I gave into my husband even though I knew better. Plus, its seems so absurd to have a gentle homebirth and then take your precious newborn to the doctor to cut off part of his body. My husband is really, really angry with me and thinks I'm being unreasonable, but I won't let another one of my children go through that. (Honestly, I'm hoping for a girl, so we don't have to deal with the issue at all.)

[cjarvis]

Hi Everyone,

I have to say a big WOOOHOOO , because dh and I have decided we are definately not circing and we both feel good about it.

We talked a lot today and I definately got to see his side. He was and still is very concerned about his ds emotinal state in his teen years because it could be he will be the only intact boy in our family and dh says he knows that ds will know he is different than most of our family and probably friends too. He says guys do think about their penis and are sensitive to talk about it at that age, whether they are circ'd or not. Dh said I was deciding on ds emotional state as a baby and he was making his decision on ds emotional state when he is older. The points he made were truly heart felt.

We did some reading together and he agreed that circ does not need to be done. We feel good about it and a lot less pressure now

Thanks everyone,
Crystal

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by cjarvis

Hi Everyone,

I have to say a big WOOOHOOO , because dh and I have decided we are definately not circing and we both feel good about it.

We talked a lot today and I definately got to see his side. He was and still is very concerned about his ds emotinal state in his teen years because it could be he will be the only intact boy in our family and dh says he knows that ds will know he is different than most of our family and probably friends too. He says guys do think about their penis and are sensitive to talk about it at that age, whether they are circ'd or not. Dh said I was deciding on ds emotional state as a baby and he was making his decision on ds emotional state when he is older. The points he made were truly heart felt.

We did some reading together and he agreed that circ does not need to be done. We feel good about it and a lot less pressure now

Thanks everyone,
Crystal

Yay!

[AmyCarin]

I am sooo glad you decided against cosmetic surgery on your newborn! Woo-Hoo!!!

Anyway, my dh and his brothers were born abroad and are intact. They went to school here in the US from Elementary School on. My favorite story is this:

K was in school one afternoon with a friend - they were in the bathroom together and K happened to catch a glimpse of his friend's p*nis. He came running out of the bathroom - incredibly upset bc his friend was missing HALF his p*nis.

So yes, he was *traumatized* bc he is intact. That's all the story I've heard - I wonder how the other child felt? I wonder if he went home and asked his mom why he was missing HALF his p*nis?

[orangebird]

My first was (he is 13 now) the rest of the boys weren't. There has never been one issue concerning it ever. The oldest now knows what circ is, but it honest to goodness is not an issue. And as far as not looking like dad, well, the little ones look nothing like dad anyway, even if they were circed, so that has never been an issue. It is such a non issue that the older my sons get I wonder why peole ever told me it would be an issue.

[orangebird]

lol Amy! We can say penis here. Here, say it with me...penis. Doesn't that feel liberating?

[mnnice]

My DH brought up the look like dad, look like big brother arguement. Then I asked if his dad was intact or circed. He didn't know and neither did his brother.

DH had a slightly leaning to circ, but I told him if DS2 was to be circed he had to take him to the hospital himself. DS2 was a homebirth and DH really dislikes/has anxiety issues with the hospital. That was the end of conversation.

[nd_deadhead]

My DH and his brother were both surprised to learn (just a few years ago) that their Dad was intact. They had noth assumed he was circumcised, because they were (obviously neither of them had noticed that he had a foreskin, or if they noticed as kids, it didn't make much of an impression). According to their Mom, they circumcised their sons because of all the horror stories their Dad had heard while he was in the Navy during WWII. How sad for them that they were swayed by propaganda, in spite of the fact that their own experience told them it was wrong.

My own sons learned about circumcision when they were 8 years old. They were horrified to learn that parents had it done to their baby boys, and shocked to learn that it had been done to their Dad. Naturally it never occured to them that his foreskin had actually been cut off - they simply assumed that he kept it retracted. One of my sons tried that, but found it uncomfortable, so he stopped. It was not important enough for his penis to look like his Dad's for him to suffer any discomfort.

[zinemama]

My 6yo (circed) ds has never even noticed anything different about my 4yo (intact) ds. It's just never come up. I think we tend to project our own questions and insecurities on our unborn kids, when really, it's all just the way life is for them.

[Shenjall]

[QUOTE=zinemama;6692090]My 6yo (circed) ds has never even noticed anything different about my 4yo (intact) ds. It's just never come up. I think we tend to project our own questions and insecurities on our unborn kids, when really, it's all just the way life is for them.[/QUOTE]

Bolding mine.....
So very, very true. I believe this statement could be put into all aspects of parenting and still ring true.

[enstar780]

I truly hope that you will leave your newest son intact and allow him to keep his whole body. I wish I had been allowed the basic right to a whole body. Your son will be very happy you left him intact. In any case, he can make these choices for himself when he is an adult, after all, its his body and he is the one who will have to live in it. I know for many men including me it can be a shocking and very upsetting discovery that their most intimate body part was stolen from them. I think the knowledge of being a circumcision victim tends to be very traumatic for some, it is the cutting off and destruction of a body part for no good valid reason at all, while most people who are intact are glad they are intact and were spared this. Cutting off and destroying normal parts of the body is commonly perceived as a bad, not a good, thing.

Your intact and circed sons may not notice a difference. And they probably wont mind they are different if they did. After all, everyone is different in many ways. We have different hair colours, eye colours, etc. Would you put contacts in your childs eyes so his eyes look like his brothers? Would you dye their hair? If one had belly button that looked different from the other, would you have one surgically modified so they look the same? I hope not.

I was genitally mutilated as an infant, and when I found out what had been done to be, I was really quite shocked and deeply upset. I began to resent it more and more as time went on and realised this was a brutal and barbaric act that has basically stolen a part of my life from me. I have had various very negative experiences prior to my knowledge of circumcision, including almost complete lack of sensitivity and extreme frustration and confusion resulting from this. MGM has deprived me of basically most of my sexual pleasure. It is a very real deprivation that has caused me harm since before I was aware of what MGM was and what exactly had happened to me. I was also deeply resentful and felt betrayed before and after I found out about MGM. I always wish I had been left intact and it was very upsetting and insulting to me to realise that a part of my body, the most sensitive and enjoyable part of my most private body part, had been mutilated and destroyed while I was a helpless and defenceless infant, and my right to a whole body and to make these kinds of decisions for my self as an adult was ignored and violated. The thought that someone had strapped my down and altered my most private and sensitive body part makes me very angry. I think a lot of men feel this way, I have talked to many other men besides myself who felt a major emotional shock and were upset that someone had defiled their body and destroyed its most sensitive and pleasurable part, forever denying to them a wonderful and beautiful part of their lives they will never be able to enjoy or appreciate. Truly all men should feel as though their rights were violated by this act. Many men do, and many realise that something wonderful and beautiful has been stolen and denied from them. Some others do not realise what they have lost. Many men however do notice that something is missing often before they even know what happened to them. they somehow feel let down and as though they should be able to experience some wonderful sensations but can never seem to acquire them. I have. The pleasant experience which has been denied to me is not something that must only necessarily be enjoyed with a partner, but also alone as well, understanding this, and that this is a perfectly normal and healthy thing, we see how tragic this practice is and how it causes deprivation and steals what should be rightfully ours for our own private use. To deny a person pleasant experiences that their body can provide and which they are entitled to is very cruel and wrong. This is a part of a persons body, something private, and something that should not be interfered with or altered. Many men do realise that removing parts of the their most intimate and sensitive body parts is very wrong and had is an invasion of their rights and violation and mutilation of them. Many do realise this is a cutting off of a major part of the penis and a massive destruction of function that injures the man for life. The impact this has on a persons life can be major, its like removing a persons taste buds for instance. There is a whole range of pleasure and beauty they will never know, even psychological changes, states of experience that they will never know.

I think your son will most likely be very happy to learn that you let him keep is whole body, and horrified at the thought of this practice, cutting off parts of little babies bodies. I would have been happy if I had been left intact, and Ive always wished I was intact and it is caused me great emotional harm and distress, when I realised what they did to me while I was a defenceless infant. I felt mutilated, violated, raped in really terrible ways. I always have been horrified about MGM from the moment I learned about it. By sparing your child this, you will be protecting his right to a whole body and he will be glad you did.

[enstar780]

Originally Posted by AmyCarin

I am sooo glad you decided against cosmetic surgery on your newborn! Woo-Hoo!!!

Anyway, my dh and his brothers were born abroad and are intact. They went to school here in the US from Elementary School on. My favorite story is this:

K was in school one afternoon with a friend - they were in the bathroom together and K happened to catch a glimpse of his friend's p*nis. He came running out of the bathroom - incredibly upset bc his friend was missing HALF his p*nis.

So yes, he was *traumatized* bc he is intact. That's all the story I've heard - I wonder how the other child felt? I wonder if he went home and asked his mom why he was missing HALF his p*nis?

Sounds like he was traumatised that his friend was missing half his penis, not that he himself was intact.

[jstar]

my ds1 is circ'd. i won't ever be doing that again. i don't care what my family says this time. i cared too much last time.

i'm glad you and your dh decided not to