Healing the Gut Tribe-December - Page 16

[moonshine]

I think the glich with chlorella is that it isn't SCD legal. Firefaery said that she took it anyway with enzymes. I have taken it in the past, but didn't notice much from it.

[Punchy Kaby]

Anyone here know about Amines?

For the past month I have been eating SCD legal but allowing myself to eat any veggies I want. And those have been tomatoes, tons of fermented carrots and cabbage, broccoli, red peppers, tons of spinach, avocado, eggplant, tons of other green leafy stuff, and have been using lots of spices. DS's eczema has been getting worse and worse. I found a list of amines and it is basically what I have been eating NOt to mention the list includes many of my migraine triggers. It could explain DS's itchiness after I ate fish and reactions to eggs. But then again it could all be coincidence.

This idea just complicates things further, but also explains why DS improved when I restarted SCD (it was far lower in amines than what I am eating now.)
Am I grabbing at straws here? Is it worth it to try eliminating Amines?

Here is a good list if you desire to see it:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html

[bluets]

amines, salicylates, etc are all compounds found in various foods. another good link for salicylates and amines in particular: http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Amines_list.html (indirectly found from http://enzymestuff.com)

i've recently heard about a diet called "FAILSAFE" for food intolerances to additives and various chemicals contained therein (both chemical additives in addition to naturally occurring ones like amines).

has anyone else heard about this? there's a yahoo group for straight FAILSAFE, and another one NT-FAILSAFE (or something like that), incorporating NT principles on top of the FAILSAFE principles.

so....Nolansmom, it might be worthwhile for you to reduce your amine intake and log all responses, then do a small challenge - that would give you an answer.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by moonshine

I think the glich with chlorella is that it isn't SCD legal. Firefaery said that she took it anyway with enzymes. I have taken it in the past, but didn't notice much from it.

i'm thinking one needs to take a lot to notice anything. kefir makes me detox in some way, i think (stinky pits here). when i take 3 capsules of chorella-spirulina-greens mix after/with my kefir, i'm not so stinky.

on another note - the ND was dead on with the Lumbar 3 connection for ds. (Actually, it is lumbar 1, but close enough i guess) we had totally normal poops this weekend. yay. haven't tried the cina remedy yet because it hasn't come in to the store (silly lady only ordered it today - coulda gotten it sooner had i ordered it online - but no... i had to decide to support local business with this purchase).

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by bluets

amines, salicylates, etc are all compounds found in various foods. another good link for salicylates and amines in particular: http://www.zipworld.com.au/~ataraxy/Amines_list.html (indirectly found from http://enzymestuff.com)

i've recently heard about a diet called "FAILSAFE" for food intolerances to additives and various chemicals contained therein (both chemical additives in addition to naturally occurring ones like amines).

has anyone else heard about this? there's a yahoo group for straight FAILSAFE, and another one NT-FAILSAFE (or something like that), incorporating NT principles on top of the FAILSAFE principles.

so....Nolansmom, it might be worthwhile for you to reduce your amine intake and log all responses, then do a small challenge - that would give you an answer.

Thanks, I may check out the NT-Failsafe group. Going to get the book tomorrow. More reading, more research...

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

Anyone here know about Amines?

For the past month I have been eating SCD legal but allowing myself to eat any veggies I want. And those have been tomatoes, tons of fermented carrots and cabbage, broccoli, red peppers, tons of spinach, avocado, eggplant, tons of other green leafy stuff, and have been using lots of spices. DS's eczema has been getting worse and worse. I found a list of amines and it is basically what I have been eating NOt to mention the list includes many of my migraine triggers. It could explain DS's itchiness after I ate fish and reactions to eggs. But then again it could all be coincidence.

This idea just complicates things further, but also explains why DS improved when I restarted SCD (it was far lower in amines than what I am eating now.)
Am I grabbing at straws here? Is it worth it to try eliminating Amines?

Here is a good list if you desire to see it:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html

So, would someone be "allergic" to amines? What makes a person sensitive? Is it something to do with digestion or foreign proteins in the bloodstream or what?

It's crazy because my dd has problems with soooo many of the fruits on that list, minus bananas and avocados. Her face gets really red when she eats them, and then, her diaper area and eczema spots (behind one knee and under both arms) turn red. Today, I gave her blackberries (which I thought were "safe") and she had the same reaction. I wonder sometimes if the problem is acidity (they weren't very sweet). I have read that those with dairy allergies are sensitive to tomatoes, oranges, and other citrusy-acidy things *until* they get their allergy under control (after a long period of abstinence??) but I don't understand the mechanism at all.

Bluets: The list you posted (that includes salicylates) is strange because it lists a lot of those same fruits as low in amines. Am I not understanding it correctly?

[Pattyla]

So my chiro today (subbing for my reglar chiro who is out on maternity leave) said that she studied of a kind of energy work that somehow stops the mercury from doing damage w/o trying to get it out of the body. She is going to look up the details and we'll talk on Thursday.

I came across This site earlier. It has some interesting info (I've just skimmed it for now.)

Also has anyone heard of NMT?

[USAmma]

Originally Posted by Annikate

Hi mama! I remember all of your help and support when I was just learning that dd had GERD and related issues.

I'm sorry I don't have enough knowledge about that particular blood test to offer advice but wanted to give you a (We had the RAST test done for dd.)

Thank you, I will take the hug any time. It was a rough day, but ended on a high note at least.

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

So, would someone be "allergic" to amines? What makes a person sensitive? Is it something to do with digestion or foreign proteins in the bloodstream or what?

It's crazy because my dd has problems with soooo many of the fruits on that list, minus bananas and avocados. Her face gets really red when she eats them, and then, her diaper area and eczema spots (behind one knee and under both arms) turn red. Today, I gave her blackberries (which I thought were "safe") and she had the same reaction. I wonder sometimes if the problem is acidity (they weren't very sweet). I have read that those with dairy allergies are sensitive to tomatoes, oranges, and other citrusy-acidy things *until* they get their allergy under control (after a long period of abstinence??) but I don't understand the mechanism at all.

Bluets: The list you posted (that includes salicylates) is strange because it lists a lot of those same fruits as low in amines. Am I not understanding it correctly?

Salicylates are phenols, amines are in a different category, they are amino acids. As I understand it one wouldn't be allergic to amines, but rather sensitive to them. However, there is a big crossover of foods high in amines and salicylates. I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down : There is quite a bit of info if you poke around the website I posted.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

Salicylates are phenols, amines are in a different category, they are amino acids. As I understand it one wouldn't be allergic to amines, but rather sensitive to them. However, there is a big crossover of foods high in amines and salicylates. I feel like my whole world has been turned upside down : There is quite a bit of info if you poke around the website I posted.

Thanks. I sometimes wish I didn't care about researching all of this. If I just filled the prescriptions and applied the steroids like a good little patient. Sigh. I guess ignorance really is bliss. I'll start reading up on this tomorrow because my brain is mush tonight.

[Chinese Pistache]

Coconut yogurt makers! I have a question:

How will I know if my probiotics are really multiplying? Will the yogurt taste sour? In some ways, making yogurt will be the test to see if my probiotics are actually alive (the company says they are, despite the fact that they arrived to me in an unrefrigerated package, so they were room temp for a few days). Thanks!

[SAmama]

Another question with the chorella thing... what can you use instead of it? I can find Spirulina here, but have never seen chorella. And just by coming back to China and eating proper veggies again I have lost a bunch of weight and have been worried that I am dumping some serious toxins in the bm. And dd's eczema has also gotten WAY worse in this time. Now I am on this elimination diet and pouring oil on everything because I am always hungry (and I eat a lot, a lot of veggies and seeds), but I still am not sure that my weight has stabilised. I would really like to be able to take something to help with the toxins.

[heathenmom]

Hi! I'm new here ... I was referred to this thread from the NT forum. Here's what's happening with my 28 m/o dd:

DD has been prone to ear infections, sniffles, colds for the last year or so. I tried to treat them homeopathically the best I knew how, but a couple of times she ended up on antibiotics for very high fevers (over 104) associated with the ear infections. (In my ped's defense -- they DON'T like to give antibiotics and ALWAYS recommend that you give probiotics at the same time and for a month afterwards, to help restore the balance.) She has also had what I thought were night terrors for about the same amount of time ... maybe longer. She would, from a deep sleep, start screaming hysterically. We couldn't rouse her and she didn't know who we were. Everything I read about night terrors said there was nothing to do for them except keep your child from hurting themselves during the episodes.

In October, things seemed to escalate: constant sniffles, terrible cough, ear infections, waking several times a night screaming. She also developed dark, dark circles under her eyes. We attributed them to lack of sleep .... I never connected the issues until I posted on the Nighttime Parenting forum about the night waking a couple of weeks ago (at that point, dd was waking up screaming every hour, taking 20-30 minutes to settle, then waking again the next hour .... all night long). A wonderful mama who I will always be indebted to suggested that a food issue might be causing *everything*.

Did I mention that dd was/is completely dairy-obsessed? At the worst point, she would barely eat anything but cheese/yogurt or drink anything but cow's milk.

So, she's been dairy-free (with 2 notable exceptions*) for about 10 days and her improvement is remarkable: waking once/night and going back to sleep easily with a little snuggling; sniffles & cough all but gone; her diet is back to a more normal variety and her appetite has returned.
* One night 3 days into the elimination, I gave her some Sun Chips with dinner. That's all she would eat from her plate and she went right back that night to waking every hour screaming. I checked the bag the next day and saw they had cheese in them.
* Two nights ago we had veggie stirfry with smoked sausage. She ate more sausage than anybody at the table and had a terrible night, and her sniffles/cough returned. I checked the label the next day and found that the sausage was made with hydrolized whey protein. Who puts milk in SAUSAGE?!? I read EVERY SINGLE LABEL before she gets ANYTHING now ... I have learnt my lesson.

The day I decided to start a dairy elimination diet with her, her allergy test came back. It said that she's not allergic to any of the 18 things they tested her for (milk, wheat, soy among them). So, I don't know if she's allergic or not, but clearly milk makes her sick, so she's done with milk, for at least a little while.

I'm going to post in the allergy threads, too, but it was suggested in the NT forum that, if her gut is healed properly, she may be able to grow out of this and tolerate dairy again. They also suggested that it may be the pasturization process that's the problem, and raw milk may be fine for her. I'm scared to try it right now.

So ... all that to say, I'm here to learn what I can do to help my sweet girl get well. I know I've made some bad decisions that have contributed to the problem, but when you know better, you do better.

[bluets]

heathenmom, i'm not surprised that they didn't find anything through allergy testing. we didn't either. the traditional allergy scratch tests only look at IgE (the anaphylactic reaction). your dd is probably demonstrating and IgG reaction - which means that undigested large proteins are getting into her system through the gut lining.

the good news is that you can help her

the bad news is that it is often trial and error, and there is lots of work to be done on your part, AND nothing ever works the same from one person to another.

i'm casein-free now (and probably shoulda been casein-free for a long time)... it does take a lot of creativity to find dairy substitutes that you know are casein-free. all is not lost - even though i don't drink milk, i can tolerate home-grown kefir (and probably yogurt) quite well. i keep my ds casein-free too - last fall he was much like your dd - ear infections (though i think we only had 1 real ear infection); congestion; blah blah blah. this fall - we're going through the first bad cold even though he is in fulltime daycare. woohoo. (have i mentioned here that Olbas syrup kicks butt?)

read the sticky that JaneS created about healing the gut. but feel free to ask as many questions as you have

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by SAmama

Another question with the chorella thing... what can you use instead of it? I can find Spirulina here, but have never seen chorella. And just by coming back to China and eating proper veggies again I have lost a bunch of weight and have been worried that I am dumping some serious toxins in the bm. And dd's eczema has also gotten WAY worse in this time. Now I am on this elimination diet and pouring oil on everything because I am always hungry (and I eat a lot, a lot of veggies and seeds), but I still am not sure that my weight has stabilised. I would really like to be able to take something to help with the toxins.

Large doses of vitamin C (sodium acorbate) help eliminate toxins...liquid chlorophyll is supposed to help, too. I would think spirulina would be okay instead of chlorella but I don't really know. Oh, and pascalite clay is supposed to absorb toxins.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

Coconut yogurt makers! I have a question:

How will I know if my probiotics are really multiplying? Will the yogurt taste sour? In some ways, making yogurt will be the test to see if my probiotics are actually alive (the company says they are, despite the fact that they arrived to me in an unrefrigerated package, so they were room temp for a few days). Thanks!

Your yogurt should get at least a little sour and the smell will change, although it may not necessarily smell like yogurt (the type of probiotic influences the smell). My really pricey probiotics were shipped unrefrigerated, too--from what I've read a few days at room temperature isn't going to significantly influence the probiotic counts.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by beachbuminthecity

Sorry to change the topic but I have one question for the ones on a candida diet. Is homemade sourdough bread ok to have since it soaked (fermented) overnight.

Unless you have absolutely no digestive issues it's probably best avoided--grains (even properly prepared ones) tend to be hard to digest, and wheat is one of the hardest to digest. Generally candida diets only allow the easiest to digest grains like rice, buckwheat, aramanth, quinoa, and/or millet.

[caedmyn]

I think I need to start focusing more on leaky gut and less on yeast for myself as my yeast symptoms are pretty much gone but I obviously still have a very leaky gut, considering DD now seems to be reacting to everything I eat that's not on the candida diet. Who was it that posted about the supplement (MSM? L-gutamine?) they were taking that helped with their leaky gut--Bluets? Will you post that information again?

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

Anyone here know about Amines?

For the past month I have been eating SCD legal but allowing myself to eat any veggies I want. And those have been tomatoes, tons of fermented carrots and cabbage, broccoli, red peppers, tons of spinach, avocado, eggplant, tons of other green leafy stuff, and have been using lots of spices. DS's eczema has been getting worse and worse. I found a list of amines and it is basically what I have been eating NOt to mention the list includes many of my migraine triggers. It could explain DS's itchiness after I ate fish and reactions to eggs. But then again it could all be coincidence.

This idea just complicates things further, but also explains why DS improved when I restarted SCD (it was far lower in amines than what I am eating now.)
Am I grabbing at straws here? Is it worth it to try eliminating Amines?

Here is a good list if you desire to see it:
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html

I was looking at that site again and I'm so overwhelmed! I really don't want to eliminate one more thing, but I really think we're sensitive to amines, too. I'm trying to find out the mechanism behind it, but I can't seem to. That site said that lots of people are sensitive to amines but no one knows why. I wonder if it can be helped by gut healing. I REALLY hope so.

[Punchy Kaby]

More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast. This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)