Healing the Gut Tribe-December - Page 17

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast. This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)

That link is very interesting! So, presumably, enzymes would help amine-sensitivity, too?

I'm going to look around the Failsafe forum later today when I have time. I noticed just now after glancing through it that the parents over there are challenging it after a period of time, just like an allergy challenge. So, I guess there is hope to overcome it.

BTW, I've started getting hive-like bumps on my torso when I eat the high amine fruits (pineapple and blackberries most noteably). I've never had that problem until after the antibiotics I had when dd was born. So, it seems like it's all part of gut-healing.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I think I need to start focusing more on leaky gut and less on yeast for myself as my yeast symptoms are pretty much gone but I obviously still have a very leaky gut, considering DD now seems to be reacting to everything I eat that's not on the candida diet. Who was it that posted about the supplement (MSM? L-gutamine?) they were taking that helped with their leaky gut--Bluets? Will you post that information again?

okie dokie...

i started out for a month on RenewLife's "IntestiNew" product and MSM. during that time, I cut out 99% of grains and sugar - was pretty much eating meat (no grassfed but mostly lamb, chicken, pork sausages), veggies (broccoli, cauliflower, carrots coz that's all that ds likes), fruit (apples, sometimes strawberries but mostly apples which are high in pectin - also good in gut healing), nuts (almonds, cashews occasionally, walnuts, pecans). started 1300mg x 4 of EPO.

then I added homemade sauerkraut, pickles, kefir and applied NT principles to beans and rice but had beans/brown rice only once a week.

then i switched to Metagenics' Glutagenics and their UltraFlora Plus DF probiotic. ND told me to use Beano for foods when I was having troubles digesting stuff, but particularly beans. started KAL UltraOmega 3 6 9 (4 capsules per day) plus 4 x 1300mg EPO. did this all for 3 months. at some point in there, i added in sourdough bread (French Meadow brand).

so i started this in April and by September I felt I could expand to different foods (that's when I started getting creative beyond meat and steamed veggies - like fancier recipes from NT or Cathe's "Vegetarian Mother's Cookbook" and so on. i think it was some time in November when my gut got weird - too many rice flour products (unsoaked), too many fancy sauces, too many beans, etc. and something happened to my kefir but now that's all better AND we're doing slightly simpler meals (much much less stressful) and i'm feeling better again.

a little off-topic:
the Metagenics products are pricey but very well studied and subjected to lots of quality control. ND says that he used to shop around for supplements but having gone through some vendor-led training sessions (he works at the HFS in the supplements section), he prefers the bigger name companies like the parent company for KAL, Standard Process and Metagenics because they have the money to do rigorous quality control studies on their products. yes, they are nutriceutical companies but at least they aren't pharmaceutical companies. with some of the legislation being pushed through, i bet it will be these nutriceutical companies that will remain once the little guys can't afford the paperwork and testing as required by the incoming laws. (i'd cite legislation numbers but i'd have to do some serious hunting, but you might watch the video on google about Codex Alimentarius)

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast. This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)

if you read the list of forbidden foods, you'll notice that bone broths are out on the FAILSAFE diet.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

I'm doing scd. No dairy. I added red meat into my diet probably 6-8 months ago. At that point my iron was 28. I got blood work from my Dr today saying that it is now 20. I used to see a different Dr in the practice and she was concerned about my level being 28. She has left the practice and the Dr I am now seeing isn't concerned (but possibly didn't realize that this was a drop for me). I try to get liver. I probably get it about 1x a month but that is way better than I used to. I also eat red meat 2-4x a week if not more and I wasn't eating any before earlier this year.

Patty,

This is just an idea based on some reading I've been doing. You're doing the meat, so that's good. Iron is more easily absorbed from meat. Your digestion isn't all that it could be. Why not try fermenting a vegetable juice with vegetables high in iron? Spinach is the big one. Add something sweet to make it palatable. Find a good recipe from raw foodists, but then ferment it with water kefir grains. I can send you some if you need them. The problem with these vegetables usually is that they are high in oxalates which bind iron, but I just found a very interesting study about fermented carrot juice and the increased solubility of iron (I have been looking for this for months). Carrots aren't particularly high in iron but they are high in oxalates and the fermentation took care of that. Such a juice would give you beneficial bacteria as well which could help your gut.

Amanda

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

More on amines:
http://www.plantpoisonsandrottenstuf...roduction.aspx

This explains the 'FAILSAFE' diet which eliminates salicylates, amines and glutamates.

The more i read about amine/salicylate sensitivity the more I think it is our problem, along with leaky gut. But perhaps my problem with amines caused me to get leaky gut which opened up the door for yeast. This is why I believe amines are my problem: have always been sensitive to any scents (natural or synthetic, high in S's and A's), I crave strongly flavored foods(coffee, dark chocolate, aged cheese, very high in A's), the list of high amine foods is filled with my migraine triggers, DS got a bit better during SCD intro which is lower in amines/salicylates and got worse the more foods I added (like saurkraut, very high in A's), the list could go on and on. But as I read about it I keep thinking 'ah-ha'.

Still in the very early stages of reading and I will make some changes now but the issues are complex (like finding a fresh meat source, like they kill it and I'm eating it 3 days later.)

You know, looking at the lists again (particularly that color-coded one) I would have to say that our problem is much more salicylates than amines. The berries and melons are problematic for us, but they do not contain amines. The tropical fruits are a problem, too, but they contain both salicylates and amines. I wish the list broke them down to see the amounts for both. http://www.users.bigpond.com/mywebho...hor-Frui-36300

Also, I react when I eat too much the food (like the huge container of blackberries I ate yesterday: ). A few don't bother me, but too many do. I woke up with hivey things on my side and tummy today and dd's face got red after eating them (and though it was clear by this morning, she cried all night because her tummy was hurting so bad She felt great once she have a bm. Sorry for the tmi.

This is all so hard to figure out. :

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Patty,

This is just an idea based on some reading I've been doing. You're doing the meat, so that's good. Iron is more easily absorbed from meat. Your digestion isn't all that it could be. Why not try fermenting a vegetable juice with vegetables high in iron? Spinach is the big one. Add something sweet to make it palatable. Find a good recipe from raw foodists, but then ferment it with water kefir grains. I can send you some if you need them. The problem with these vegetables usually is that they are high in oxalates which bind iron, but I just found a very interesting study about fermented carrot juice and the increased solubility of iron (I have been looking for this for months). Carrots aren't particularly high in iron but they are high in oxalates and the fermentation took care of that. Such a juice would give you beneficial bacteria as well which could help your gut.

Amanda

Am I gonna need a juicer to do this?

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by bluets

if you read the list of forbidden foods, you'll notice that bone broths are out on the FAILSAFE diet.

yeah . Gelatine is out, All well/overcooked meats are out. And guess what I have been eating lately: crockpot meals with meats that have been cooking slowly for hours. Im going to have to figure out how to have a healthy diet, eat less amines and heal my gut. GFCF sounds so easy now I don't see this as an all or nothing thing for us (yet), perhaps if I lessen the total load of amines there will be things that we can tolerate in moderation.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

Am I gonna need a juicer to do this?

Good point. Yes.
: Small detail.

[moonshine]

Oh, ladies. Our sagas keep continuing, don't they. Mine is. And I am wondering if any of you have any thoughts because I am a bit : about all of it.

I had my third and most sever face rash, which started Thursday a week ago. It keeps getting better every day, but is still not completely gone. I would say I had my first one in the last 2-3 months. The middle one was mild, but only two weeks after I healed from the first one. This one was worse and is lasting longer. And I almost feel that it is starting up again -- feeling very itching on my neck and cheeks at times, and my eyelids are red, which is how it always starts. I think that my doc is a bit concerned about anaphalytic shock and perscribed me an epipen, among other things.

He also did some allergy testing (blood). The results are very inconculsive. He tested most things that I eat with regularity: carrot, corn, apple, avocado, banana, almond, cashews, cinnamon, coconut, gluten, walnut, chick pea, coffee. The results for ALL of them is .35 kU/L. Below .35 is "absent/undectable" and then the next range is .35-.70, considered low level. My take from this is that I do not have a full-blown allergy to anything, but seem to be reacting a bit to everything???

He gave me a referral to a GI guy and a dermotologist. I am not sure how much the derm can help me, but he thought I should get an endoscopy done, and I suggested being tested for the hyliobactor pylori (sp?), since I seem to have gastritis.

I have been taking a Nexum a day, which I know I need to cut out. I just got the book that saskiasmom recommended, Stop Heartburn Naturally in 30 Days. I haven't gotten very far, but looks promising.

Part of my problem is that I have no idea what I react to. There seems not to be any direct corelation between what I eat and how my body responds. My stomach pain/nausea is hugely better since I cut out coffee and even caffienated black tea, but that is about it.

I was debating starting SCD again. I don't feel that it helped me hugely, but maybe a little? I think there is a anti-candida diet recommendation in the Heartburn book, so might check that out too.

I have an appointment with the GI guy tomorrow. I am tempted to cancel and go after the holidays, but I am also curious as to what he might say. But will it be anything I want to hear?!?!

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Good point. Yes.
: Small detail.

couldn't it be done just be doing kimchi style concoctions? i'm thinking about the kimchi recipe in wild fermentation or the gingered carrots in NT. you could either stuff all the veggies into the jar, fill with water and then stuff in some grains and let it ferment OR you could run the veggies through a food processor or blender, then squish it into a jar, top with water if needed and drop in the grains. perhaps put the grains in a nutmilk bag first.

not that i've tried this

[bluets]

moonshine - have you looked at some of Nolansmom's link about the FAILSAFE program, particularly the foods that are high in amines/salicylates? perhaps start there and see if you problematic foods are on that list.

re: gastritis - i thought i had read that kefir can help with that, but i can't remember where i saw it - maybe the kefir-making yahoo group?

doesn't heartburn arise from low stomach acid? i also thought i read that there's the beet test to see about low stomach acid - eat a whole beet and if your pee is pink, then you have low stomach acid and should SUPPLEMENT with HCl of some sort.

what supplements are you taking?

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Nolansmum

crockpot meals with meats that have been cooking slowly for hours. Im going to have to figure out how to have a healthy diet, eat less amines and heal my gut.

not only do i have a love-hate relationship with my crockpot but i also have a love/hate relationship with crockpot meals. i find that meat just gets too stringy and has no texture. blech. it's great for beans and rice (separately) but that's all i've found it good for.

as for meat... if you have a local (or semi-local) source for grassfed anything, see how long it takes to get from farm to your freezer. i know that the half grassfed beef and now the half grassfed hog we got landed in the deep freeze at the slaughterhouse within relatively short amount of time - not sure if it was 3 days (i'm not sure how long they hang them but this place is so small that i could have asked if needed).

i LOVE brussel sprouts but we never eat them because dh doesn't like them (he's SUCH a picky eater) - i could easily eat meat + steamed brussel sprouts for dinner or meat + steamed carrots or meat + cabbage (mmmmm cabbage rolls) for weeks at a time.

you can do it

[moonshine]

Originally Posted by bluets

moonshine - have you looked at some of Nolansmom's link about the FAILSAFE program, particularly the foods that are high in amines/salicylates? perhaps start there and see if you problematic foods are on that list.

I went rather : when I first looked at that site, thinking, no way could I do this! : But on a serious note, I have no idea what I am reacting to, so it is very hard for me to work with something like that.

Originally Posted by bluets

re: gastritis - i thought i had read that kefir can help with that, but i can't remember where i saw it - maybe the kefir-making yahoo group?

doesn't heartburn arise from low stomach acid? i also thought i read that there's the beet test to see about low stomach acid - eat a whole beet and if your pee is pink, then you have low stomach acid and should SUPPLEMENT with HCl of some sort.

I have been making water kefir, but haven't had so much in the last few days. I just made coconut milk kefir today. I think that it turned out ok. As for the heartburn, I don't have that, as far as I know, but had severe nausea (pre medication) and reflux (which I still have). But yes, I should probably do the HCl test -- I did it this summer and was low. I did supplement, although probably not enough, and also tried to stick with the water w/vinegar before eating, but I didn't maintain it.

Originally Posted by bluets

what supplements are you taking?

SA, CLO, Mg, Kelp (tested myself for iodine, low on that), Selenium, bioflavonoids, Digest Gold and Wobenzyme.

[SAmama]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

Large doses of vitamin C (sodium acorbate) help eliminate toxins...liquid chlorophyll is supposed to help, too. I would think spirulina would be okay instead of chlorella but I don't really know. Oh, and pascalite clay is supposed to absorb toxins.

I took large doses of vit c (Ascorbic Acid, cannot find SA here and I LOVE salt so I guess I get enough sodium?) but then stopped because I wasn't sure if it made dd's eczema worse. Now I have been eliminating things for about 10 days (except MSG which was in some fermented veggies that we just got from the fresh market here : , i haven't gotten around to making it myself and theirs are homemade, so I wanted to give it a try). So, the MSG was two days ago. I know it really bothers dd's stomach, which it did. Then I started taking the AA again, several grams yesterday. And dd has a runny nose so I added some baking soda to the AA and gave her some in bm yesterday - about 1000mg, if that much. Last night was horrible. NO sleep. She cried and scratched and had gas. This morning some of her eczema is bright red again (she has it over most of her body but some parts get all red and angry and itchy). :
Does anybody know if this is because the vit c is causing die-off in her (I am pretty sure she has yeast... and it actually makes me pretty gassy as well), or does she respond to the AA itself? Or to fillers in it? I asked a dr here what is in it because I don't understand the ingredients list and neither do my Chinese friends. Some say only vit c and some say starch also. The one we use says it has only AA in it.
Or is her skin only now reacting to the MSG (a day and a half after I ate it - it was a lot, it made me dizzy)?

Oh, and I also started giving her probiotics, but just a little. DH was adament that we do it slow. He is very worried about die-off. Are we too worried?

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Good point. Yes.
: Small detail.

I've been wanting a juicer but since we had to buy a new camera, our stove needs a major repair $$$ and my kitchen aid is on the fritz I don't think a juicer is in the budget right now.

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by bluets

couldn't it be done just be doing kimchi style concoctions? i'm thinking about the kimchi recipe in wild fermentation or the gingered carrots in NT. you could either stuff all the veggies into the jar, fill with water and then stuff in some grains and let it ferment OR you could run the veggies through a food processor or blender, then squish it into a jar, top with water if needed and drop in the grains. perhaps put the grains in a nutmilk bag first.

not that i've tried this

Yes, definitely. I'd try the kimchi version and just use salt. It's hard to imagine straining the kefir grains out. I was just thinking that with the juicing you'd get a pretty big punch of nutrients quickly. And you'd just have to stay ahead of yourself. But yes, it's more kitchen equipment. That's where the kimchi has the advantage.

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by moonshine

He also did some allergy testing (blood). The results are very inconculsive. He tested most things that I eat with regularity: carrot, corn, apple, avocado, banana, almond, cashews, cinnamon, coconut, gluten, walnut, chick pea, coffee. The results for ALL of them is .35 kU/L. Below .35 is "absent/undectable" and then the next range is .35-.70, considered low level. My take from this is that I do not have a full-blown allergy to anything, but seem to be reacting a bit to everything???!

Stab in the dark, have you looked into-phenols, salycilates and amine sensitivities? I am reading about them now.
http://www.danasview.net/phenol.htm
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...fi/amines.html
http://users.bigpond.net.au/allergyd...tolerance.html
I see you already looked at some of these sites. I *think* our biggest amine problem is with fermented veggies, coconut oil (high), olive oil (high), almonds(high), most spices which I had been using a lot of. I also read that Kombucha tea is high in Salycilates, could explain why some people get headaches from drinking it? Of course I don't know yet if this is truly it but I will keep you posted.
I also read some interesting posts at the FailsafeNT:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/FailsafeNT/

[ericaz]

So, I went to another GI doc last week. I waited an hour and a half (with 3 yo dd in tow, mind you) to see her but she was way better than that other schmuck I saw previously. She recommended trying a few different OTC things before we jump into colonoscopies and all that stuff. I'm in total agreement since I *know* I'm not dealing with anything larger than an irritable gut. I hate calling it that because I know that's a catch term used by the conventional medical establishment but that's the best I can come up with. What I do know is that my gut issues are clearly related to hormones. I took Clomid and had an HSG shot last month and felt better than I had in weeks. Unfortunately I didn't get pg, got my period (with nasty cramps and weird tissue-like stuff coming out - nice, huh?) and now my stomach is a wreck. I'm still doing gf/cf yet am still gassy and have urgent messy poops. I'm taking enzymes and they have helped only slightly.

The GI doc told me to take probiotics (of course - and I do, although not the crappy brand she recommended) and to try fiber supplements. I know I took fiber supps years ago and can't remember what kind I used or the results. Can anyone school me on whether this would be something to consider and what kind/brand would be best?
What I liked about the GI doc was that she was sensitive to my desire to be as holistic as possible. She also asked a ton of pertinent questions (how fast do I eat my meals, what other issues am I dealing with, what is a typical breakfast/lunch/dinner, do I drink/eat anything with caffeine, etc etc) and listened to my answers. That's what I was hoping for...
She also told me it's very common for symptoms like I have to disappear during pg and pp and that's exactly what happened when I was pg with dd. There's that hormonal connection again. And I'm pretty sure what it's doing is screwing with my gut motility which sets me up for all sorts of imbalances. So the question becomes - how do I correct a motility issue?

[sparkletruck]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

I've been wanting a juicer but since we had to buy a new camera, our stove needs a major repair $$$ and my kitchen aid is on the fritz I don't think a juicer is in the budget right now.

Do you have a juice bar near you? I guess a quart of carrot juice wouldnt be cheap either. What about odwalla? I think they have 1/2 gallons for $6.

[ericaz]

Originally Posted by saskiasmom

Do you have a juice bar near you? I guess a quart of carrot juice wouldnt be cheap either. What about odwalla? I think they have 1/2 gallons for $6.

I'm kicking myself for selling my juicer a few years back. It was a PITA, but I think I could really use some fresh veggie juice these days. The problem with pre-made juices like Odwalla is that they are pasteurized.

In answer to my own question about fiber I've narrowed down my search but unfortunately the kind I want to take is a no-no for pg women and since I'm ttc I don't want to risk anything.
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