Healing the Gut Tribe-December - Page 4

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by LovinLiviLou

I have lots of questions for you all today, so here goes --

DD is definately showing signs of being ready for solids. It's been going on a few weeks, so I don't think its a stage. She is nursing all the time, grabbing food from us (or trying!), and last night at dinner basically "shouted" at us the whole time in this really peeved sort of way. One time she got hold of some food off my plate and she had it to her mouth before I knew it (had to do the great fishing expedition to get it out!). So, I think I'm going to have to figure out something to give her. I've poured over the allergy scale lists and several things posted in the allergy boards about introducing solids to an allergic infant. I'm trying to decide between squash, green peas, and carrots - any advice on the choice? How big a deal is the nitrate thing for carrots? Some stuff I read makes it sound dire and other thing dismiss it completely. Also, what age is right for introducing bone broths?

Next set of questions - I'd like to try to up my supply to help with this issue, too. What can I do that is SCD legal? I'm not very astute in tealand, but all the ones I've seen premixed have things that aren't SCD legal. Obviously oatmeal is out -- any other foods known for helping out?

For those of you battling eczema - what age did it start with your kiddos?

As always, many, many thanks!

Are you going to have her self-feed or give her pureed stuff? I wouldn't do peas if she's going to self-feed cuz she'll never digest them. My DD did okay with squash for a while. I think you can introduce bone broths as soon as you start solids (I did--they're really good for the gut).

Fenugreek tea is supposed to be good for boosting milk supply--if there isn't a tea that is SCD legal you can buy bulk fenugreek and make a tea with it.

My DD's eczema started at about 2.5 months of age, although it took me another couple of months to figure out what it was.

[Panserbjorne]

nettles, blessed thistle, alfalfa and fenugreek are great for supply issues. Goat's rue is my personal best. It's different from person to person and depends largely on what is the root cause of supply problems. Sorry that's not very specific!

[ericaz]

I went to the GI doctor. I was a little hopeful since he's a DO, but it turned out worse than I feared. The doctor was a total dick. I made it clear from the get go that I'd like to treat my issues as non-invasively as possible and I swear it seemed as though I was speaking another language. I must've told him three times that I don't want to take drugs (especially before I even know what's going on) and he wrote me two scripts. I was so ready to cry...I totally wasted my time. He recommended I have more stool/blood tests (to look for h pylori and other things) through Quest and then have a colonoscopy. How's that for non-invasive? And when I asked him what some natural things I could try might be he said yogurt...right after he told me to try and remove dairy from my diet. He also said, "You've been using acidophilus and that isn't working so you can either just deal with it or take prescription medication," as he wrote out the script for a drug I can't pronounce.
So, I'm stuck with three choices. 1. Do nothing except remove wheat/dairy from my diet entirely. That said, I'm not convinced that those are the main culprits for my issues. Sure, I think I'm reacting to them but I think I'm probably reacting to everything. I truly think my issue is more of a functional/motility issue than anything else. Of course the doing nothing leaves me wide open for it getting worse...and let me tell you...it sucks now. Constant gas, pain, loose stools, indigestion - just about every time I eat. I'm seemingly reacting to everything and my jars of supplements are not working. It's like whenever I eat the food just sits there...and then the gas starts. It's disgusting.
2. Call my primary doc and tell him what a jerk this GI doc was and see if he can write a script for those tests the GI doc asked me to take (the blood/stool analysis) and/or possibly get me in to see another GI doc...one that has a better bed side manner and is more open minded (if there is such a thing). Of course the risk there is I'll be wasting more time. I'm not so sure those blood/stool tests are consclusive - but that leads me to number 3. Do the enterolab tests. As I said, I think that food sensitivity might be just one of my problems stemming from something else. I could be wrong....but I eliminated all gluten and dairy from my diet a few weeks ago (for more than 2 weeks) and I felt better but not as great as I hoped.

I'm just tired of constantly fearing food and feeling bloated and shitty all day long.
Grrr. this is so frustrating. Thanks for listening to me vent.

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by ericaz

I went to the GI doctor. I was a little hopeful since he's a DO, but it turned out worse than I feared. The doctor was a total dick. I made it clear from the get go that I'd like to treat my issues as non-invasively as possible and I swear it seemed as though I was speaking another language. I must've told him three times that I don't want to take drugs (especially before I even know what's going on) and he wrote me two scripts. I was so ready to cry...I totally wasted my time. He recommended I have more stool/blood tests (to look for h pylori and other things) through Quest and then have a colonoscopy. How's that for non-invasive? And when I asked him what some natural things I could try might be he said yogurt...right after he told me to try and remove dairy from my diet. He also said, "You've been using acidophilus and that isn't working so you can either just deal with it or take prescription medication," as he wrote out the script for a drug I can't pronounce.
So, I'm stuck with three choices. 1. Do nothing except remove wheat/dairy from my diet entirely. That said, I'm not convinced that those are the main culprits for my issues. Sure, I think I'm reacting to them but I think I'm probably reacting to everything. I truly think my issue is more of a functional/motility issue than anything else. Of course the doing nothing leaves me wide open for it getting worse...and let me tell you...it sucks now. Constant gas, pain, loose stools, indigestion - just about every time I eat. I'm seemingly reacting to everything and my jars of supplements are not working. It's like whenever I eat the food just sits there...and then the gas starts. It's disgusting.
2. Call my primary doc and tell him what a jerk this GI doc was and see if he can write a script for those tests the GI doc asked me to take (the blood/stool analysis) and/or possibly get me in to see another GI doc...one that has a better bed side manner and is more open minded (if there is such a thing). Of course the risk there is I'll be wasting more time. I'm not so sure those blood/stool tests are consclusive - but that leads me to number 3. Do the enterolab tests. As I said, I think that food sensitivity might be just one of my problems stemming from something else. I could be wrong....but I eliminated all gluten and dairy from my diet a few weeks ago (for more than 2 weeks) and I felt better but not as great as I hoped.

I'm just tired of constantly fearing food and feeling bloated and shitty all day long.
Grrr. this is so frustrating. Thanks for listening to me vent.

I don't know much about finding a better Dr. but if you felt at all better after just 2 weeks of eliminating gluten and diary I would stick with that longer. Dairy takes 6 weeks to work out of your system and wheat/gluten takes 6 months. 2 weeks is nothing. My Dr was shocked that I reacted to an exposure to wheat after having it out of my system for just 10 days. It usually takes much longer to see any improvement.

Remember that the foods you are reacting to are doing damage to your gut. Just eliminating them does not heal your gut. That takes time and the right tools.

I hear your frustration and I totally understand it.

[Pookietooth]

ericaz, I agree with Patty, if removing wheat and dairy helped, continue with it for at least a month. And maybe even try the SCD minus dairy for a month, to see if it would help even more. I know it seems daunting but it is doable. It just takes dedication and lots of time in the kitchen. Planning helps, if you can. Having the support of the rest of your family helps, too.

[ericaz]

Thanks Patty and Jen.
I guess I'm just concerned that I'm not getting to the root of the problem. I've had allergy tests done (through Great Smokies - a reputable alternative lab) and the only thing that showed up is that I'm mildly sensitive to casein. That was it. I know those tests can be inconclusive.

I'm going to give it a shot anyhow, but like I said I don't feel like that's the root of the problem. I do think those things exaserbate the condition, though. Does that make sense?

And, I've done this all before and I know it takes diligence. I just need to wrap my head around it.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by ericaz

I went to the GI doctor. I was a little hopeful since he's a DO, but it turned out worse than I feared. The doctor was a total dick. I made it clear from the get go that I'd like to treat my issues as non-invasively as possible and I swear it seemed as though I was speaking another language. I must've told him three times that I don't want to take drugs (especially before I even know what's going on) and he wrote me two scripts. I was so ready to cry...I totally wasted my time. He recommended I have more stool/blood tests (to look for h pylori and other things) through Quest and then have a colonoscopy. How's that for non-invasive? And when I asked him what some natural things I could try might be he said yogurt...right after he told me to try and remove dairy from my diet. He also said, "You've been using acidophilus and that isn't working so you can either just deal with it or take prescription medication," as he wrote out the script for a drug I can't pronounce.
So, I'm stuck with three choices. 1. Do nothing except remove wheat/dairy from my diet entirely. That said, I'm not convinced that those are the main culprits for my issues. Sure, I think I'm reacting to them but I think I'm probably reacting to everything. I truly think my issue is more of a functional/motility issue than anything else. Of course the doing nothing leaves me wide open for it getting worse...and let me tell you...it sucks now. Constant gas, pain, loose stools, indigestion - just about every time I eat. I'm seemingly reacting to everything and my jars of supplements are not working. It's like whenever I eat the food just sits there...and then the gas starts. It's disgusting.
2. Call my primary doc and tell him what a jerk this GI doc was and see if he can write a script for those tests the GI doc asked me to take (the blood/stool analysis) and/or possibly get me in to see another GI doc...one that has a better bed side manner and is more open minded (if there is such a thing). Of course the risk there is I'll be wasting more time. I'm not so sure those blood/stool tests are consclusive - but that leads me to number 3. Do the enterolab tests. As I said, I think that food sensitivity might be just one of my problems stemming from something else. I could be wrong....but I eliminated all gluten and dairy from my diet a few weeks ago (for more than 2 weeks) and I felt better but not as great as I hoped.

I'm just tired of constantly fearing food and feeling bloated and shitty all day long.
Grrr. this is so frustrating. Thanks for listening to me vent.

I'm going to echo the gluten thing about giving it more time. I know it's hard.

I'd probably try to get in to see another GI doc (I say that only because I had a *wonderful, wonderful, wonderful* one when I lived in NY and I know they're out there! I'm sure that any one you see though will want to order more stool tests.

Just MO, but you could have something serious that the GI doc could detect w/a simple stool test. I'd give it another shot.
Good luck.

[caedmyn]

Reposting this for anyone who knows: how long do I need to eliminate wheat/gluten before adding it back in to see if DD is intolerant of either of those (I know I asked this before but I forgot the answer)? And when I add foods back in, how long do I need to allow between food challenges? Also, would a tiny tiny piece of communion bread every week during the elimination period totally screw up the results/defeat the purpose of going gluten/wheat free?

[sparkletruck]

ericaz - I second going to another GI. I dont know enough about the ivasive options to say try it or not, but if you really think its a structural thing and not an allergy thing, at least some testing could rule out *bad* things, so you still wouldnt know what is happening but you'd rule out some stuff. Hugs mama, Im sorry this is so bad right now!

Cademyn - can you relay the highlights from bacteria for breakfast. She endorses huge numbers of bacteria, right? Anything we'd like to hear?

[ericaz]

Thanks everyone. I just put a call into my primary doc's office since they're the one who referred me to this jerk GI doc.
I would love to find a knowledgeable, understanding, open-minded specialist. I agree that I need to keep looking.

Saskiasmom - The test he wanted to do is a colonoscopy and potentially a biopsy. While I don't think a colonoscopy is that invasive (but...ouchy!) I do think a biopsy is. I certainly wouldn't want that MFer in my a$$! He strikes me as a slicing-happy fellow.:
I just went out and bought some enzymes at my natural compounding pharmacy. I'm hoping that'll at least aid my digestion a bit better and get rid of this godawful gas.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by ericaz

Thanks Patty and Jen.
I guess I'm just concerned that I'm not getting to the root of the problem. I've had allergy tests done (through Great Smokies - a reputable alternative lab) and the only thing that showed up is that I'm mildly sensitive to casein. That was it. I know those tests can be inconclusive.

I'm going to give it a shot anyhow, but like I said I don't feel like that's the root of the problem. I do think those things exaserbate the condition, though. Does that make sense?

And, I've done this all before and I know it takes diligence. I just need to wrap my head around it.

Erica, I agree that elimination to wheat and gluten would be a good idea. But if that doesn't work for you, you might try corn.

Through elimination, I knew dd was allergic to dairy. But there was always some other ingredient out there that was causing her eczema to flare. I sometimes thought it was soy (since she'd flare badly after eating Chinese food). Other times, I thought it was wheat because she'd flare after eating grain products (only sometimes, though). Since we got the corn diagnosis, it's all come together. The corn starch in Chinese food was giving her the reaction, not soy. And in so many commercially made grain products, you find corn derivatives (maltodextrin, dextrose, ascorbic acid, etc.). In fact, corn is in just about everything, including iodized salt and canned tomatoes. (Here's a list, if you're interested: http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php)

I throw this out there because I would never in a million years have guessed we had a corn problem. I also wouldn't have guessed that *I* had a problem with it; I've only been eliminating it because I'm still bfing dd. But I've had this little dry crusty spot on my face for over 3 years. I had it burned off once by a derm because I thought it might be a pre-cancer. It just came back and I didn't pursue its cause any further. But now that we've gone corn-free (a little over a month), it's cleared up.

I'm on a corn allergy board and the range of symptoms that the women experience is VERY broad. I feel like we are definitely on the mild end of the problem.

Anyway, this may not be relevant to you at all, but in case wheat doesn't work, you might try corn.

I hope you can find a better GI, too!

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

Reposting this for anyone who knows: how long do I need to eliminate wheat/gluten before adding it back in to see if DD is intolerant of either of those (I know I asked this before but I forgot the answer)? And when I add foods back in, how long do I need to allow between food challenges? Also, would a tiny tiny piece of communion bread every week during the elimination period totally screw up the results/defeat the purpose of going gluten/wheat free?

For us it was clear after 10 days, but i have heard that is a short time. I would go a full month. I did take communion for the first 6 weeks or so but then it caused me so much stomach upset the last time I took it that I haven't taken it since.

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by saskiasmom

ericaz - I second going to another GI. I dont know enough about the ivasive options to say try it or not, but if you really think its a structural thing and not an allergy thing, at least some testing could rule out *bad* things, so you still wouldnt know what is happening but you'd rule out some stuff. Hugs mama, Im sorry this is so bad right now!

Cademyn - can you relay the highlights from bacteria for breakfast. She endorses huge numbers of bacteria, right? Anything we'd like to hear?

I'm not Cademyn but I did just read Bacteria for Breakfast.

It isn't just about high numbers of bacteria but also about getting the right kind and getting them in such a way that they do you some good. All the research that has been done that has shown improvement has used at least 100billion cells a day. Also getting several different kinds at once is better than just lots of one kind. Making sure it is manufactured and stored correctly is also extremely important. Apparently manufacturing practices can make the bacteria not work as well so at least one strain of probiotic bacteria that preformed really well in testing many years ago is now useless because of how is has been maintained in manufacturing. Some probiotics just can't thrive w/o milk for example.

Also it seems that the earlier you get the gut sorted out the better. They raised mice with sterile gi systems and then tried to introduce good bacteria. It worked just fine, in the neonatal period but once the mice were older they couldn't fix the gut bacteria. It isn't clear how this translates to messed up gut flora (as opposed to simply no gut flora) but it seems clear that the sooner you get it fixed the more likely it is to work long term.

There were some studies done of children in Sweden and children in Estonia. The Estonian children had much better gut flora. It is assumed that this is becasue their environment is much less sterile and becasue they would be eating lots of lacto fermented veggies. Children from both countries with food allergies had gut flora that resembled gut flora after a round of abx, but there were far fewer children in Estonia with food allergies compared to Sweden.

There are lots of studies if you know how to look for them. She sites tons of them in the book. I have several highlighted that I plan to search for once I get a little time, either on line or at a library at one of the local medical schools (there are at least 2 in my city).

Really you need to get the book and read it for yourself. I need to read it about 3 more times to really understand how the gut and immune system functions. I'm still trying to sort out the terms etc so that I can talk about it intellegently.

[caedmyn]

Thanks for doing that summary, Pattyla--you did a much better job than I would have done I definitely second reading the book yourself--IMO it's a must-read for everyone on this thread.

[bluets]

Originally Posted by Pattyla

There are lots of studies if you know how to look for them. She sites tons of them in the book. I have several highlighted that I plan to search for once I get a little time, either on line or at a library at one of the local medical schools (there are at least 2 in my city).

being that i work at a .edu with a superb library collection, if you need anything, just PM me and ask.

[ericaz]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

Erica, I agree that elimination to wheat and gluten would be a good idea. But if that doesn't work for you, you might try corn.

Through elimination, I knew dd was allergic to dairy. But there was always some other ingredient out there that was causing her eczema to flare. I sometimes thought it was soy (since she'd flare badly after eating Chinese food). Other times, I thought it was wheat because she'd flare after eating grain products (only sometimes, though). Since we got the corn diagnosis, it's all come together. The corn starch in Chinese food was giving her the reaction, not soy. And in so many commercially made grain products, you find corn derivatives (maltodextrin, dextrose, ascorbic acid, etc.). In fact, corn is in just about everything, including iodized salt and canned tomatoes. (Here's a list, if you're interested: http://www.cornallergens.com/list/co...ergen-list.php)

I throw this out there because I would never in a million years have guessed we had a corn problem. I also wouldn't have guessed that *I* had a problem with it; I've only been eliminating it because I'm still bfing dd. But I've had this little dry crusty spot on my face for over 3 years. I had it burned off once by a derm because I thought it might be a pre-cancer. It just came back and I didn't pursue its cause any further. But now that we've gone corn-free (a little over a month), it's cleared up.

I'm on a corn allergy board and the range of symptoms that the women experience is VERY broad. I feel like we are definitely on the mild end of the problem.

Anyway, this may not be relevant to you at all, but in case wheat doesn't work, you might try corn.

I hope you can find a better GI, too!

Good point! I think I really need to start with the gluten and dairy and then take it from there once I have an idea of how I'm feeling without those things. KWIM?

[Pattyla]

Originally Posted by bluets

being that i work at a .edu with a superb library collection, if you need anything, just PM me and ask.

I would take you up on this but some of these studies are hundreds of pages and I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I just want to try to read the whole thing and see what I can get.

I'll need to look at my book and see what they are that I highlighted that seem like it would have more info in the study.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

Reposting this for anyone who knows: how long do I need to eliminate wheat/gluten before adding it back in to see if DD is intolerant of either of those (I know I asked this before but I forgot the answer)? And when I add foods back in, how long do I need to allow between food challenges? Also, would a tiny tiny piece of communion bread every week during the elimination period totally screw up the results/defeat the purpose of going gluten/wheat free?

Yes it would, but you can ask your church to get gluten free communion wafers. It's inexpensive and they should be happy to accomodate.

As to your other question...at least 6 weeks eliminated before you try it back. I would personally go more like 12 weeks. I would introduce no more than one food a week, but given how *my* kids react to things, I try one a month in this house. There are some things that they have cumulative results to and it takes a period of time for them to show up. Hope that helps...if you need more info on the wafers let me know.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Yes it would, but you can ask your church to get gluten free communion wafers. It's inexpensive and they should be happy to accomodate.

As to your other question...at least 6 weeks eliminated before you try it back. I would personally go more like 12 weeks. I would introduce no more than one food a week, but given how *my* kids react to things, I try one a month in this house. There are some things that they have cumulative results to and it takes a period of time for them to show up. Hope that helps...if you need more info on the wafers let me know.

Well hopefully I'll start seeing improvement in the next month or so and won't have to try to go gluten or wheat free. I think if I do a trial I will just have to bring my own communion bread--the way it works at my church is a different person is in charge of preparing communion each month and most people make their own bread, so it'd be pretty complicated trying to get gluten-free bread each month. If she was confirmed celiac (can you be gluten-intolerant without being celiac?) I wouldn't mind requesting that they order gluten-free wafers but just for a trial it's not worth bothering anybody.

[Annikate]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Yes it would, but you can ask your church to get gluten free communion wafers. It's inexpensive and they should be happy to accomodate.

As to your other question...at least 6 weeks eliminated before you try it back. I would personally go more like 12 weeks. I would introduce no more than one food a week, but given how *my* kids react to things, I try one a month in this house. There are some things that they have cumulative results to and it takes a period of time for them to show up. Hope that helps...if you need more info on the wafers let me know.

OMG I never even thought of communion wafers! And dh and I kind of kid around that Sunday night is the sleeplessness night in our house.

I can't BELIEVE I never thought of that . . .