Battling Thrush Support Thread - Page 39

[tolovemercy]

Originally Posted by valkyrina

I have also heard that it's not really necessary to culture for yeast because it's unreliable. Really, the reason the culture is important is to make sure that you're not dealing with something ELSE. I know for me, I was sooooo angry that I had been taking meds for the WRONG thing for so long, when the thrush was dead and it was mrsa. (all those unnecessary antifungals.... it still makes my blood boil. my poor liver! And the poor babies' livers!)

And I do completely understand that hopelessness when the tests all come back negative. Because then there's this sense of "okay. now what? Now NOBODY can help me". It turned out for us that it was a latch problem, and 30 minutes with a lactation consultant fixed it. Obviously, I'm not saying that will do it for everyone, but it's at least worth looking in to, especially if all of your tests come back negative. It could definitely still be thrush, but I'm just putting some other options out there.

I want to give all of you mamas kudos for battling this thrush demon so hard, and for sticking with it. I also want to share with you that YOU CAN BEAT THIS! It's incredibly hard, and for us it was over a year before we had pain-free nursing, between the thrush and all of our other issues, but we are still nursing, with no pain now, at 15 months! And I am so thankful that I found the determination to keep going, even on the days when I would just sit at the nursing pillow with a babe on each breast sobbing all. day. long. Believe me, it's worth it in the end. If your doctor can't help you, call an LC. See if your local hospital has a breastfeeding group; they are often moderated by LCs and you can get their advice for free. If your LC can't help you, call another doctor. Talk to other moms. Keep posting here. Try not to punch people when they tell you to eat yogurt. You are wonderful, strong, powerful mamas!

thanks for this--i was literally just sitting here thinking, "gosh, i could really use to hear a thrush SUCCESS story." so encouraging.

[Baby_Cakes]

I had a thought last night, wondering if you all had an opinion on this. Nursing hurts SO MUCH right now, what if I just exclusively pumped for a few days and gave DD bottles, to see if we could beat this thrush and eliminate the whole moist environment? I'm talking 2-3 days max. Would it make a difference? Do you think the risks of her not going back to the breast are worth it? DD is 2 months old and takes a bottle once a day anyway.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes

I had a thought last night, wondering if you all had an opinion on this. Nursing hurts SO MUCH right now, what if I just exclusively pumped for a few days and gave DD bottles, to see if we could beat this thrush and eliminate the whole moist environment? I'm talking 2-3 days max. Would it make a difference? Do you think the risks of her not going back to the breast are worth it? DD is 2 months old and takes a bottle once a day anyway.

If you are able to pump without worse pain, I'd consider doing that. But, seriously, the breastmilk is so important for your young baby.


Pat

[Baby_Cakes]

Originally Posted by WuWei

If you are able to pump without worse pain, I'd consider doing that. But, seriously, the breastmilk is so important for your young baby.


Pat

I'd only bottle feed the expressed milk.

I don't know if I could go that long w/o nursing though. I love doing it so much. It was just a thought - I wondered if anyone had successfully done that to get rid of thrush.

[valkyrina]

I think the only thing that exclusively pumping for a few days will do is to relieve your pain, and then it's only temporary. You have to sterilize all parts of your pump, all bottles and nipples, etc. so frequently that I never thought it was worth it. I always just felt like it was a huge risk of the babe not going back to the breast, plus a bunch of extra dish washing, plus the risk of a milk supply drop, plus just more stuff to hold the thrush.

So I wouldn't recommend it. But that's just my two cents. Good luck!

[AnaBic]

Pumping

Originally Posted by Baby_Cakes

I'd only bottle feed the expressed milk.

I don't know if I could go that long w/o nursing though. I love doing it so much. It was just a thought - I wondered if anyone had successfully done that to get rid of thrush.

I'd do whatever you need to do to manage the pain. If it helps to have a few days off - do that...
xxx

ps on this thread I have read that pumping has helped heal cracks caused by thrush and relieved the symptoms a bit. Good luck!

[bluehairedwoman]

pumping was the only thing that would help me. but i only had bad symptoms on one side so i pumped on one side, nursed on the other. i also had very painful blebs and sores on the nipple, and pumping helped to heal them since nothing was coming into contact with the nipple. when nursing, DD's tongue felt like sandpaper.

the only treatment that has helped me was GSE solution sprayed directly onto nipples after nursing. i know one of the PPs stressed to use caution when using it since you can get flaky nipples. i haven't had that experience, but i'm using a very low concentration of GSE in the water. it seems to be effective though. the other day i was feeling like the thrush was coming back (really bad burning and shooting pains on one side after feeding) and then that night i spritzed GSE on the nipple and covered with cotton nursing pads and by morning there was no more pain. i'm a believer! i guess the important thing is to experiment with different concentrations with the GSE and add more water at the first sign of irritation.

[AnaBic]

Originally Posted by tolovemercy

Oh, hugs to you, mama. This is so hard. It feels silly to me sometimes to be so dramatic about something like yeast--but truthfully, I have never felt more alone, more defeated, more hopeless in my life as I have in dealing with this. To feel like you're losing a battle when you are pouring your WHOLE SELF into winning it for your baby....yeah, it takes a toll on a mama's heart.

My relationship with my DH has suffered. I've been so distracted and stressed out that my toddler has suffered. I've resented the baby for all of it, even though I know it's not his fault. And I swear, if one more person asks if I've "tried gentian violet" or "tried eating yogurt", I will probably PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE. We are so, so far beyond gentian violet.

BUT, at the same time, I don't know how to stop nursing, lol. Seriously, I don't think I would ever get a wink of sleep if I did. And on top of that, I feel like yeast has taken away so many things from me, and I'm so *ticked off* at it that I am just so. not. willing. to hand over the ability to nurse my babe to it.

Have you read this thread? :http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=941070

Don't be put off by the title, even if you had a natural birth or don't have allergies. The whole thing really has tons of info about yeast, the way it works, and how to deal with it in the body. Reading through it was encouraging to me--empowering, and made me realize that weaning isn't going to fix the problem. If yeast is attacking mine and my baby's gut, I have the ability to help us both so long as I'm breastfeeding. If I wean, I'm just going to subject his little body to whatever formula has to offer, and deprive him of all the beneficial yeast-fighting attributes of breastmilk. In addition, if I don't deal with the root of the problem, odds are good that I'm going to battle it with my next baby, too.

Have you thought about asking your doctor for Nystatin tablets for you? Nystatin is an antifungal, but it's not absorbed into the bloodstream the way fluconazole is--it stays in the gut, so it wouldn't be taxing on your liver. That said, I've been taking nystatin for 10 days without any notable change....but ya know, different strokes for different folks. Might be worth a shot?

Anyway, you're not alone. I really, completely understand your thoughts about weaning...but I could totally use a thrush buddy, if you change your mind. I am going to beat this thing if I have to nurse him til he's 12 to do it!

Sending yeast killing thoughts your way.

Thanks for this message. My tests just came back negative. My doctor is not willing to give me any more drugs and says that the negative tests mean that she can't do any more - the only thing is to stop breastfeeding and the nipples will heal...doesn't explain why the nipples need to heal...if there is nothing wrong then why is my right nipple in such a state - bright red, sores and blisters and a huge hole!!! Soooo fed up. I am considering weaning from the right breast which is too much of a mess and feeding from the left breast which is thrushy post feed but not excrutiating...not sure what to do.

I think I am nearing proper depression. that is the problem and I still have thoughts of giving it up and being a pain free mama to my gorgeous little one.

I really admire your fighting spirit. I know you will beat it and before your lovely babe turns 12!!!

x

[WuWei]

AnaBic, did you see the info about tongue tie related to thrush, especially thrush in mamas? The abrasion with improper latch creates an environment conducive to thrush. Has baby been evaluated for tongue tie, specifically posterior tongue tie?

Also, have you done some of the gut healing measures to rebalance your gut ph? A properly balanced gut microflora will keep candida in check. Adding S. boulardii, a beneficial yeast, to your diet will displace and replace candida. There are many alternatives to help with gut healing. If you need more info, please post. Basically, you want to include coconut oil, cod liver oil, magnesium, zinc, vit C, A and D, bone broths, whole food probiotics, honey, etc.

Pat

[jenniepaige]

ok...maybe I'm in the minority here but DS had had it since birth as well but I never got it (that I know of) and it doesn't seem to bother him. The doc gave us a scrip that we used for about a month and it never went away. I just said forget about it because it wasn't bothering either of us. Is that normal?

[Thandiwe]

Hi, everyone! I'm new to this thread, and I *think* I have thrush. My little guy (almost 14 mos old) has always been predisposed to yeast (I seriously think his pH balance is out of wack). He's battled way too many ear infections and has been on antibiotics a few times. But he's never had *thrush* perse; he's never had the white rash in his mouth, etc, though we've definitely battled really bad diaper rashes that I personally (though docs have denied it) felt were yeasty. I have a deep-seated craving/borderline *addiction* to carbs/yeast/breads and sugars, and my oldest son has actually been diagnosed as allergic to wheat/gluten, etc. Anyways, my question is this: how did you guys get diagnosed? I have been having pain while nursing for a while now, and it's getting worse. Tonight I had to stop a session because it hurt so bad. It felt like he was biting, or rather clamping down with his jaw real tight. Sometimes when he's done there's blanching on my nipples, and a real tender sensitivity. I've treated with GV, but it always comes back once I'm done. I'm going to begin cutting out dairy/sugars/yeast/wheat, which will just about kill me because I bake bread. A lot. Anyways, how has everyone been dx? I think that's what I'm dealing with; there's a faint rash around my nipples and even surrounding my areolas, but no one has seen them since his birth let alone taken the time to evaluate medically.

Any input?

[AnaBic]

Originally Posted by WuWei

AnaBic, did you see the info about tongue tie related to thrush, especially thrush in mamas? The abrasion with improper latch creates an environment conducive to thrush. Has baby been evaluated for tongue tie, specifically posterior tongue tie?

Also, have you done some of the gut healing measures to rebalance your gut ph? A properly balanced gut microflora will keep candida in check. Adding S. boulardii, a beneficial yeast, to your diet will displace and replace candida. There are many alternatives to help with gut healing. If you need more info, please post. Basically, you want to include coconut oil, cod liver oil, magnesium, zinc, vit C, A and D, bone broths, whole food probiotics, honey, etc.

Pat

Thanks for this. I have spent time with a breastfeeding counsellor on latch and the issue of tongue tie did not come up - I will check again.
I have been taking high doses of probiotics and following a strict no sugar/no yeast diet but not taking any other measures. I have been eating a lot of coconut but I am finding it difficult to find coconut oil (I live in Belgium). My multivit pill has most of the supplements you list but maybe it is not potent enough...what is 'bone broth'? is it when you boil down a chicken carcass to make soup? I am also not sure what whole food probiotics are and I have been avoiding honey due to the high sugar content....
Anna

[tolovemercy]

Originally Posted by jenniepaige

ok...maybe I'm in the minority here but DS had had it since birth as well but I never got it (that I know of) and it doesn't seem to bother him. The doc gave us a scrip that we used for about a month and it never went away. I just said forget about it because it wasn't bothering either of us. Is that normal?

yeah, we've had seasons of this. at the beginning of our struggle, DS had white patches in his mouth for a good few weeks without it bothering either of us. lucky you that it went away!

[tolovemercy]

Originally Posted by bens_mommy_2005

Hi, everyone! I'm new to this thread, and I *think* I have thrush. My little guy (almost 14 mos old) has always been predisposed to yeast (I seriously think his pH balance is out of wack). He's battled way too many ear infections and has been on antibiotics a few times. But he's never had *thrush* perse; he's never had the white rash in his mouth, etc, though we've definitely battled really bad diaper rashes that I personally (though docs have denied it) felt were yeasty. I have a deep-seated craving/borderline *addiction* to carbs/yeast/breads and sugars, and my oldest son has actually been diagnosed as allergic to wheat/gluten, etc. Anyways, my question is this: how did you guys get diagnosed? I have been having pain while nursing for a while now, and it's getting worse. Tonight I had to stop a session because it hurt so bad. It felt like he was biting, or rather clamping down with his jaw real tight. Sometimes when he's done there's blanching on my nipples, and a real tender sensitivity. I've treated with GV, but it always comes back once I'm done. I'm going to begin cutting out dairy/sugars/yeast/wheat, which will just about kill me because I bake bread. A lot. Anyways, how has everyone been dx? I think that's what I'm dealing with; there's a faint rash around my nipples and even surrounding my areolas, but no one has seen them since his birth let alone taken the time to evaluate medically.

Any input?

This sounds like it could definitely be thrush. I guess I self-diagnosed, and sought out a doctor much later in the game, lol.

I'd say your best bet, if you want a diagnosis, is to talk to a LLL leader, or a lactation consultant and get their opinion, and then take that to your ped. or doctor. If your LO doesn't have the classic white patches in his mouth, you may have to fight a MD to diagnose and treat, kwim?

Adjusting your diet is hard. I used to bake bread a ton, too. It gets alot easier after the first two weeks. Warm foods are good for feeling satisfied--chicken soups, etc. Keep us posted!

[tolovemercy]

Originally Posted by AnaBic

Thanks for this message. My tests just came back negative. My doctor is not willing to give me any more drugs and says that the negative tests mean that she can't do any more - the only thing is to stop breastfeeding and the nipples will heal...doesn't explain why the nipples need to heal...if there is nothing wrong then why is my right nipple in such a state - bright red, sores and blisters and a huge hole!!! Soooo fed up. I am considering weaning from the right breast which is too much of a mess and feeding from the left breast which is thrushy post feed but not excrutiating...not sure what to do.

I think I am nearing proper depression. that is the problem and I still have thoughts of giving it up and being a pain free mama to my gorgeous little one.

I really admire your fighting spirit. I know you will beat it and before your lovely babe turns 12!!!

x

Do you get relief from any antifungals at all? Lotrimin or monistat creams? They're not exactly "natural" approaches, but if you can treat the pain a bit, maybe you'll be able to clear your mind and relax a little.

After months of using GV and GSE and CO/TTO on my nipples, I caved and started using lotrimin and got SO much relief. I can't remember if you've said you'd already tried it, though.

Try some gut-healing foods, like Pat said. And yes, bone broth is stock made from chicken carcasses or bones. It's incredibly healing to the intestine. Not a miracle cure or anything, but it is soothing to your body. You sound like you could use some soothing.

Keep us posted.

[AnaBic]

Antifungals

Originally Posted by tolovemercy

Do you get relief from any antifungals at all? Lotrimin or monistat creams? They're not exactly "natural" approaches, but if you can treat the pain a bit, maybe you'll be able to clear your mind and relax a little.

After months of using GV and GSE and CO/TTO on my nipples, I caved and started using lotrimin and got SO much relief. I can't remember if you've said you'd already tried it, though.
.

I think the names are different in Europe...I have tried clotrimazole cream and miconazole cream (I think this is the stuff in the apno formula...). There was no noticeable reflief. The apno does help but the version here (a french pharmacist designed it with Jack Newman) contains ibuprofen so I think it just kills the pain in the nipple...
I would love to try the Lotrimin or monistat if they have different active ingredients....I am way past caring they are not natural...olive oil and calendular, GSE...GV all seem to do nothing. I just want it/the pain to go!!!
Thanks for all the support. It helps a lot
Anna

[AnaBic]

Latch problem

And I do completely understand that hopelessness when the tests all come back negative. Because then there's this sense of "okay. now what? Now NOBODY can help me". It turned out for us that it was a latch problem, and 30 minutes with a lactation consultant fixed it. Obviously, I'm not saying that will do it for everyone, but it's at least worth looking in to, especially if all of your tests come back negative. It could definitely still be thrush, but I'm just putting some other options out there.
[/QUOTE]

I am really interested in the latch problem...can you post me the symptoms that you had that made you think it was thrush that was cured by the latch. I wonder sometimes if we have a bad latch on the left side...I had an open wound alongside the base of that nipple at the start (very bad case of mastitis which broke down some of the nipple) and the latch evolved to avoid that part of the nipple...now the sensitive part of that nipple is along the top - some small pimples...I notice it when he nurses and that is the part that blanches afterwards.
I would be really grateful for any info on this.
Thanks so much and congratulations for getting rid of thrush and mrsa...amazing!!!
Anna

[tolovemercy]

Originally Posted by AnaBic

I think the names are different in Europe...I have tried clotrimazole cream and miconazole cream (I think this is the stuff in the apno formula...). There was no noticeable reflief. The apno does help but the version here (a french pharmacist designed it with Jack Newman) contains ibuprofen so I think it just kills the pain in the nipple...
I would love to try the Lotrimin or monistat if they have different active ingredients....I am way past caring they are not natural...olive oil and calendular, GSE...GV all seem to do nothing. I just want it/the pain to go!!!
Thanks for all the support. It helps a lot
Anna

OK, I'm seriously wondering if you have thrush at all. It's surprising that you would have yeast and not get ANY relief from any of that stuff. Lotrimin is clotrimazole, monistat is miconazole. Did you have your milk cultured for staph? You mentioned a bad case of mastitis--staph can be responsible for that, and it certainly can cause things like blisters and open sores.

eta: did you just use the apno, or the straight antifungal creams? or maybe try another athlete's foot cream, if you think it's thrush--tolnaftate is the active ingredient of Tinactin cream here.

[bluehairedwoman]

Originally Posted by AnaBic

some small pimples...I notice it when he nurses and that is the part that blanches afterwards.
I would be really grateful for any info on this.
Thanks so much and congratulations for getting rid of thrush and mrsa...amazing!!!
Anna

anna, is it possible you have blebs (milk blisters)? i get those too and they are extremely painful. especially if you had mastitis caused by clogged ducts and the milk could not get out. what has happened to me is that the pores on the nipple get clogged with milk and then seal over with skin and become very painful. i've had to get in the hot shower and squeeze them so i can see where they are, and then try to scrape the skin off to reveal a little 'whitehead' that sometimes i can squeeze out easily and sometimes it takes a lot of effort over several days. eventually i can see little bits of milk dripping out. i've noticed that when i get a flare up with the blebs, they do tend to blanch white.

treating these two problems (blebs and thrush) is unfortunately counterintuitive because for the blebs i have to keep the nipple constantly moist, but for the thrush i have to keep it dry or with GSE on it. i go back & forth every couple of weeks or so.

hope this is some help to you. good luck mama.

[WuWei]

Tongue Tie thread (related to yeast and allergies): http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1004254

Mercury Poisoning Can Mimic the Symptoms of Candida:
http://www.yeastinfectionadvisor.com...poisoning.html


Do those with recurrent thrush have a mouthful of amalgam (silver) fillings?
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...&postcount=842


Pat