Battling Thrush Support Thread - Page 5

[Caroline529]

me too...help...HELP!

We're on board too. I have 2.5 month old twins and a 2.5 y/o DD. One twin is now on her 3rd round of thrush. We treat, have a couple symptom-free weeks, and then it's back. 1st time I had NO symptoms (pedi found patches on DDs tongue). 2nd time I had very mild itchiness and pain. This time, it's a little more intense so I know we are headed for trouble. Incidentally, each baby has their own breast, so I think that's why only one of them is symptomatic, though I do treat both.

Here's what we've been doing. I know there is MORE we can do, but it's mind-boggling trying to determine what steps to take next. Remember I have very little pain, and DDs patches are cleared up after a day of Nystatin (but we continue for 2 weeks) HELP!

1) Treat both babies with oral Nystatin 4-6x day
2) Take 1 Diflucan, and then another a few days later
3) NO SUGAR, FLOUR diet
4) Probiotics for me
5) Babydophilus on nipple before feed (she doesn't get daily bottles)
6) Vinegar and Lotrimin on nipples after each feed
7) Air on nipples
8) Rest, Water, Vitamins, Extra C
9) Wash anything that touches breasts everyday in hot water
10) Boil all pump parts and paci daily

WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT? I need the long dose of Diflucan, don't I??? 400mg on day 1 and 200mg for 2 weeks. Is that right?

TIA,

Nancy

[doula mary]

Nystatin is worthless....


SOme women need to take Diflucan EVERYDAY for 2-4 weeks.

Take immune boosting herbs

Treat you and baby with GV

TIME

Mary

[hbmomof5]

Cure for thrush

Hi guys...Ive never posted but wanted to let you know what worked for me. I was bf my youngest who was born 7wks early and didnt want to stop bfing but was becoming very discouraged due to thrush. I am a nurse and one night I was working and the pharmacist came up to the floor. She asked about my daughter and I told her our 4wk battle with thrush and that nothing was working. She told me to take a very small amount of vaginal yeast cream and rub it around her mouth. When I said "Wont that hurt her?" she pointed first to her mouth and then her wochy-woo(yes that is a medical term!) and said "mucous membrane, mucous membrane".
Well I really trusted this lady so I went home and did it. I also put some on my nipples once a day( just followed the usual length of treatment) and wouldn't you know it... GONE!
Hope this helps.
Rainee

[lioralourie]

is one brand of GSE better?

Or are they pretty much comparable?

[mimim]

Originally Posted by doula mary

Nystatin is worthless....

SOme women need to take Diflucan EVERYDAY for 2-4 weeks.

There are strains of yeast that are susceptible to Nystatin still, so it's worth a try. Nystatin is not toxic at all, because it only works topically and is not absorbed into your system.

Diflucan is more helpful for ductal yeast because of this, but is very toxic to your liver. Also, more strains are becoming resistant to fluconazole, and other azole drugs. 6 weeks of fluconazole followed by 4 weeks of Vfend (voriconazole - a new and very very expensive azole drug) did nothing for my yeast problem.

It took me over a year to get mine under control. I still have to restrict carbs (but not obsessively), take lots of probiotics, eat and drink fermented foods, and take a maintenance dose of Candex but I've been pain (and itch) free for several months now.

Oregano oil and tea tree oil (yes internally) along with digestive enzymes are what helped me over the hump. Pharmaceuticals did nothing to my super yeast.

Of course, now my nurslings both have food allergies. I really doubt it's a coincidence. I have them on enzymes and probiotics still.

[doula mary]

Diflucan can be hard on the liver, that is why..often liver function tests are done...however the dose seems to make a huge difference too.....some folks take WAY more mg than what is typically prescribed for nursing mothers.

At the lactation center I work at.....we dont bother at all with nystatin...but herbal treatments can be helpful.

Mary

[lioralourie]

mimim, how did you take the TTO internally?how many drops? was it pure or already diluted in a carrier oil?

Did you take TTO at the same time as anything else (we're trying to take GSE regularly...). thanks!

[eleven]

Stay strong, mamas!! You can beat it!!

I'd like to share our experience - maybe it can help someone.

We had thrush bad and it affected my 3 week old DD's latch. My nips were cracked like crazy and I was a mess. We fought it for several weeks and it was so frustrating!

What we tried:

Gentian violet - it helped the reduce the thrush, but made my baby miserable each time we used it. After the first round, I thought it had gotten rid of it, but it came back.

GSE, topically - helped at first, but not consistently. When I first started it, I was amazed that her spots disappeared, but they came back after a day or so.

Nystatin, topically and orally - completely and utterly useless. I can't believe I did it for the whole week.

GSE tablets, Probiotics, Garlic, Yogurt, low sugar diet, etc. - check. Who knows how much it helped.

What made the difference for us is that I started drinking kefir every day. I started with 1/4 cup, then 1/2, then 1 cup daily. After a week and a half, the spots in her mouth were gone. Shortly after that, her latch improved and I felt confident that we had beat it. That was probably 2 months ago and I am still drinking it nearly every day (make my own now ) and we haven't had any flare ups.

Good luck and hang in there!

[mimim]

Originally Posted by lioralourie

mimim, how did you take the TTO internally?how many drops? was it pure or already diluted in a carrier oil?

Did you take TTO at the same time as anything else (we're trying to take GSE regularly...). thanks!

I added 3 or 4 drops of pure TTO to some water and drank it 2 or 3 times a day for a couple of weeks Didn't taste bad at all, IMO. I used Desert Essence brand.

Then I did the same with oregano oil (was already diluted in olive oil, otherwise it would BURN) for a couple of weeks, then I switched back to TTO.

I did this for about 3 months, along with Candex enzymes, reduced carbs (NO added sugars) and many billions of probiotics daily. I started making water kefirs, kombucha, and fermented veggies.

I'm still taking enzymes and probiotics, but I'm symptom free finally. I never eat any meal with out drinking kefir or kombucha with it or eating something fermented along with it. I really think that is what's keeping it under control.

[mimim]

Originally Posted by Caroline529

1) Treat both babies with oral Nystatin 4-6x day
2) Take 1 Diflucan, and then another a few days later
3) NO SUGAR, FLOUR diet
4) Probiotics for me
5) Babydophilus on nipple before feed (she doesn't get daily bottles)
6) Vinegar and Lotrimin on nipples after each feed
7) Air on nipples
8) Rest, Water, Vitamins, Extra C
9) Wash anything that touches breasts everyday in hot water
10) Boil all pump parts and paci daily

WHAT SHOULD I DO NEXT? I need the long dose of Diflucan, don't I??? 400mg on day 1 and 200mg for 2 weeks. Is that right?

TIA,

Nancy

I think as long as you don't have ductal pain this should work. If the pain is inside your breasts then you'll need a longer course of systemic antifungals. Don't stop treating for at least a week after symptoms are gone and keep taking probiotics for a couple months - or forever if you can afford it. I'd give your babies infant's probiotics too. They only get bifidus species. Use the pacifier as little as possible, too.

[qjraven8]

knew i was counting my chickens ...

having ductal pain again and ds has a slight white glaze to his tongue again :
so a couple days of gv on my nips for him and upping his probiotics that we never stopped. i bought some candex, which is a little difficult for me as i have to take it on an empty stomach and i HATE watching the clock to make sure i'm taking it correctly. thinking about trying the oil of oregano and tto internally, but am doing the gse and garlic for now (i'm CONSTANTLY taking something!!) had gotten myself an even better probiotic too.

mimim, how do you make your own kefir? i'm intrigued, i buy the helios brand and drink it daily, but would be great to make my own! and what about the fermented veggies? i need to try something new i think to make sure i'm hitting this beast from all angles!



mostly : at myself as i couldnt stay away from some chocolate while i was symtom free for over a week, and i know it was me just feeding it back to life and only have my weakness to blame :

[Caroline529]

thanks and more Qs

Thanks all. I got some of the baby probiotics. I'm not sure how much to give them (12 week old twins). I'm putting about a 1/8 tsp into 1/2 tsp of breastmilk and feeding it to them with a syringe 1x a day (so they each get 1/16 tsp per the directions). Does that sound OK?

I also bit the bullet and got the long Diflucan protocol (400mg then 100mg 2x day for 14 days, is that the right dose Mary??) for myself. And I got Diflucan for the babies, which I HATE doing but this has to stop. I don't have the time or energy to keep battling this and can't let it get out of control. Weaning is not an option.

And I am trying very hard to ingest NO sugar or flour which as you know is nearly impossible especially while breastfeeding twins. Can someone tell me, since I have read conflicting things, are these foods OK to eat in moderation:

1) Hard cheese, cheddar
2) Milk, 1%
3) Oats
4) Rice (actually I'm eating alot of rice stuff)
5) Soy
6) Berries (trying to stay off fruit but I do love my berries)

DARNIT I miss my ice cream and homemade chocolate chip cookies so, so, so much. Please tell me that I can add them back eventually...

Thanks again,

Nancy

[qjraven8]

Originally Posted by mimim

I did this for about 3 months, along with Candex enzymes, reduced carbs (NO added sugars) and many billions of probiotics daily. I started making water kefirs, kombucha, and fermented veggies.

seriously! how do you make the water kefir? i feel like i spend a lot of money on buying all these at the store and would like to start figuring out how to cut some of the costs but keeping up with the treatments!!

[lioralourie]

hi, Nancy

I would also add some Grapefruit seed extract into your diet. With our mild case I am seeing a difference with just a few drops a day.

Also perhaps some VERY dilute water solution of GSE (swished in baby's mouth with your finger after each feed). Like 1 drop in a few ounces of water, just enough to taste, or more if they don't protest too much the flavor. i give a tiny bit, like a couple of cc's once or twice a day by mouth for baby to drink, too. But I have a 12 month old. Not sure if this is advisable for babies as young as yours.

Looks like the oral nystatin for the babes isn't working--often doesn't.

I have a few more ideas for you: I know you're super busy but try to get a yogurt cooker or figure out how to cook your own yogurt (some people do it in a gas oven with just the faint heat of the pilot light-- ) commercial yogurt has too much lactose and too little bacteria. If you cook the yogurt a full 24 hours the bacteria will synthesize almost all the lactose and it will be teeming with the good stuff.

Also, what else??? We have kept lots of rice & oats, some soy (tofu, soy sauce) and a tiny bit of fruit and honey and even a little vinegar in our diets successfully, but I would probably have cut them out with a prolonged or more serious case of thrush. We have been strict about having NO dairy except for the overcooked yogurt. And we are meat-free as well so I'm not sure how that plays into the diet. I have supplemented with B vitamins which seems to have helped trememdously in just a day's time.

Yes you'll be able to enjoy choc chip cookies some day---for now maybe with carob chips and millet or barley flour, though!

[Caroline529]

thanks Liora

I appreciate your reassurance. I really can't cut out much more than I already have - I have lost 8 pounds in 6 days. AND I am eating something with protein every 2 hours. The babies are nursing ravenously.

I think I'll try to find cookie recipe with the carob chips and an alternative flour. Just something to make me feel less depleted.

Thanks again,

[provocativa]

zinc supplementation is supposed to help. I bought some trace minerals ionic zinc, and am trying it. it's only been a few days and it's helping. the enzymes (candidase or candex, etc) really help me, but i can rarely afford them. it makes sense to me that a nutritional deficiency allows the infection to be so viscious /long lived with all of us. you can find info about kefirs in the traditional foods forum here. if you up your enzymes, and drink kefir, you don't have to have the extreme diets, because the enzymes help break down the yeasts, and the probiotics help digest the sugars.

[mimim]

Originally Posted by qjraven8

seriously! how do you make the water kefir? i feel like i spend a lot of money on buying all these at the store and would like to start figuring out how to cut some of the costs but keeping up with the treatments!!

It is a bit of a commitment to make your own kefir. I think it's easier to make dairy than water, but my DD can't tolerate dairy.

You have to obtain kefir grains, which are actual living colonies of the organisms that culture the kefir and you have to continuously feed them.
There is lots of info is the traditional foods forum.

General kefir thread:http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=203282

Water kefir thread:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=kefir

Sources of grains: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ighlight=kefir

[qjraven8]

bump, for tulsidas

would type more but gotta shower while ds is still sleeping!

[cera]

I suspected thrush and we went to the doctor's today and he says ds has a very mild case. He prescribed Nystatin for ds but nothing for me, even though I am the one in pain and ds seems fine. I told him I had heard that Nystatin was not effective 50% of the time he seemed annoyed and told me it works 99% of the time. Pretty sure my first ds had it and it did jack. We had thrush for over 6 months. After dh went to the pharmacy I phoned and spoke to pharmacist who suggested I get the Nystatin ointment for myself so dh will pick that up tommorow. I hope that this clears up fast and is not a repeat of what happened with ds#1.

[cchrissyy]

I've got a warning for my fellow thrush battlers....
Don't put the gentian violet within reach of your toddler, even for a minute, even on the right side of a baby gate. sooner or later, she'll dump it out all over your bedroom, and that stuff stains bad!