Newborn Eye drops and Vit K Q's again

[cjarvis]

Hi All,
Sorry if these are repeat questions.

Yesterday I went to doc appt and ended up being admitted to the hosp for more monitoring because they were worried about the baby. Long story short, baby is fine and I am back home.

While I was there I took my oppurtunity to ask the nurse about refusing (but I just said delaying ) the Hep B and eye drops.

She gave me no problem about the Hep B...thank goodness, but went on to tell me that the eye drops also protect against any bacteria that is in the vaginal canal. So when I do finally go into the hospital to have the baby, what can I say in response to this? I would like to make sure my wording is right and I know what I am talking about, because all I know is it is for STD's which I don't have, but then she pulled out the "all bacteria" card on me and I didn't know what to say.

Second, I am having a hard time with the Vit K shot. Those of you who had the Vit K with your first child and didn't with your next, did you see a difference in jaundice? Do not Vit K injected babies get jaundice? If I request the drops instead is there a less chance of jaundice?

I am tempted very much to do Vit K because I don't believe my diet has been as good it could have been to know that my baby will have enough Vit K.

Thank you for your time and thoughts,
Crystal

[annettemarie]

Moving to birth and beyond

[Peony]

DD1 received vit k, dd2 did not. My diet wasn't the best during my pg with dd2 because of severe food adversions, I was very limited in what I could eat. DD2 had absolutely no jaundice what so ever.

[homebirthbaby]

Eye Drops: To the best of my knowledge (which is very little while I'm PG!) it's only STD's that can cause blindness, thus the eye drops.
(Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!)
Vit K.: We didn't give Vit K with our first (and only so far). She had slight jaundice, but she also wouldn't nurse for the first 2 days, (no formula given) so that may have had something to do with it.

[XanaduMama]

The eye ointment/drops only protects against eye infections caused by STDs, specifically chlamydia. If you know you're negative for that, you don't need 'em! Don't get it. If babies could be blinded by the "bacteria in the birth canal," wouldn't we see millions of blind people walking around? Duh. I can't believe a nurse told you that.

Besides, if your babe does get some sort of eye infection (speaking hypothetically), you'd notice and treat it long before it got so bad that it caused blindness. It's not like the blindness is instant.

I don't know about the vit k-jaundice connection. We got the shot (I probably won't next time, though). ds had some mild jaundice that didn't even require treatment--it took 5 days for my milk to come in, though, plus I had pitocin during delivery: both risk factors. I don't think having a generally good diet affects how much vit k your breastmilk has--it's just naturally low in it, although you can increase it by taking LOADS of alfalfa or something like that. But to me, if breastmilk is naturally low in it, there must be an evolutionary reason (or, again, babies would be bleeding to death all over the place). Unless you're planning on circ'ing, I wouldn't bother.

[musemor]

If you don't have STDs, you don't need the eyedrops. If the baby gets a bacterial eye infection postpartum (rare!), you'll be able to tell and you can treat it then.

[QuietTempest]

Does the eye ointment have any ill effects on a newborn?

[lolar2]

It annoys them, and occasionally some have allergies. The most compelling argument against them is the general overuse of antibiotics.

[alegna]

I wouldn't try to give them reasons for any of it. Just say no. Say it's against your religious beliefs.

We didn't do vitamin K for dd. No jaundice. But she was born at home and didn't have anyone or anything messing with her at all

-Angela

[mwherbs]

breastmilk reflects what mom eats- it is low in it because mom's don't eat enough vitamin K foods-- most women of childbearing age eat about 1/2 the current RDA of vitamin K daily.
increase the amount of green vegetables you eat and it will increase the amount of vitamin K in your breastmilk-- what we don't know is how much you will need to eat in order to protect the baby--
the thing to be asking medical folks you know and saying to med students who need to do studies-- please study this how much vitamin K foods do moms need to eat in order to supply adequate amounts to their babies, what is the saturation limit for vitamin K? we know some about essential fatty acids we know about vitamin C-- but what about K...
also do some research on risk factors for a vitamin K related problem- like resusciation, traumatic birth, preterm, brusing, antibiotic exposure, instrumental birth, mom with gallbladder or liver problems in pregnancy. Certain metabolic disorders- all these increase the need for vitamin K and put baby at in a higher risk category

[boobjuice]

uhm... i don't think the vit k shot has anything to do with jaundice, its for bloodclotting. vit k is necessary for 9 out of the 22 blood clotting processes in the body. some births, in particular long and/or traumatic ones can cause cranial hemorraging which could lead to death if left undetected, however is rare. but i could have no clue what im talking about, this is just what i was remembering from my prenatal classes.:

my dd did not get the eye drops because i tested negative for the STDs and the birth was quick and easy, so we did not use the vit k shot and opted to observe baby over next 24 hours. hth.

[meggles]

I've heard of babies getting clogged tear ducts and other eye infections FROM the eye drops. Plus, they are antibiotics, which you may want to avoid. If you know you're STD free, there is no reason to consent to the drops. They can interfere with bonding, as the baby needs to look around and see its parents right after birth. In my state (CA) I just have to sign a waiver saying we're aware of the risks of not doing the eye drops, etc. However, I've heard in some other states, the husband/partner must actually physically stop the caregiver from administering the drops. ( I heard this from a Dr. who used to live in WA).

As for the vitamin K...unless your baby has had a traumatic birth or has bruising (indicative of broken blood vessels that may need help with clotting), the shot is uneccesary, imo. It increases the amount of vitamin k in the baby's blood to many, many times the amount found in an adult's body! You can give the baby oral vitamin k at birth and afterwards, until your milk comes in. You can even take oral vitamin K yourself prior to the birth and through 1 week postpartum. Additionally, you can get Alfalfa capsules or Chlorophyll for yourself to take pre-birth, even if your diet has been lacking.
Good luck!

[ustasmom]

Is there mercury in the Vit K shot?

[mwherbs]

Originally Posted by ustasmom

Is there mercury in the Vit K shot?

no mercury in the vitamin K shot
---------------

also if you are going to increase your vitamin k just keep doing it - lack of vitamin K is showing it'self to be a life time problem.
better than supplements for mom are veggies- and fit right into the natural zone- better for your family and kids as they need to establish habits to last them a lifetime too.

[ndunn]

....but there are disgusting perservatives in the vitamin k shot. If you feel you must give it, which IMO its totally unnecessary, there is an oral form made by Scientific Botanicals that is in a base of olive oil. You can google it.

The eye drops can cause problems for baby's focus/bonding on mom & dad in the first hours in my opinion. They are even more silly if you've tested negative for STD's.

[cjarvis]

We all know that the eye drops are for the STD's, but how do I come back with a smart remark for when they say they use the eye drops for "all bacteria" in the vaginal canal? What would you say?

Thanks,
Crystal

[musemor]

I'd probably say something like, "We'll watch her closely for signs of eye infection and bring her in if there is a problem." My midwife gave me a fact sheet with symptoms to watch for; maybe you could ask for something similar to deflect their energies.

More info to read in the Midwife Archives at gentlebirth.org.

[mwherbs]

with out the eye antibiotic we can be sure if we see goopy or irritated eyes that it is a problem that will need to be seen and probably treated- not just topically but systemically, and if that happens we would seek approprate care- other wise it could go on for a while and we would be thinking it was a reaction to the salve- and the doc would too. You could say this happened to my-- friend or someone I know--- (this happened to my brother actually- he had a reaction to the stuff and they ignored it) and my first born in the hospital the e-micin was used in her eyes and she got an infection on her face because of it- took us about a week to figure it out- she still has some little scars from it.

[XanaduMama]

[QUOTE=cjarvis;6706906]We all know that the eye drops are for the STD's, but how do I come back with a smart remark for when they say they use the eye drops for "all bacteria" in the vaginal canal? What would you say?/QUOTE]

Apart from questioning the medical training of the speaker, who evidently DOESN'T know that the ointment is just for STDs, I'd point out that millions of babies are born around the world, mostly via that vaginal canal and all its bacteria, and most are totally fine. From an evolutionary perspective, or a divine-plan perspective if you prefer that, it seems unlikely that there would be such a stupid design flaw. IMO this opinion is based on a misogynistic idea of vaginas as "dirty" and bad. Not cool coming from an OB nurse.

It could also be that she's mixing up these "bacteria" with GBS, which is a whole other can of worms and isn't affected by eye ointments...

To me, it's better to wait and treat a problem if it arises, rather than reacting pre-emptively.