Male Circ vs. Female Ear Peircing

[MelissaEvans]

Ok... I was talking to my mom about how my ped annoyed me at our 2wk checkup with his, "so, we're going to circ him now?" question/assumption. She agreed that it was rude of him to do so and we kinda started talking about circ. She had both my li'l brothers done (17 and 18yrs old) and I started with a comment to the effect, "I know the information wasn't available as easily before and it was simply accepted without question..." and she came back, "the information was there, and I knew it when I had it done." Ok, I was trying to leave a door open so when I mentioned the ickiness of circ it wasn't implying any "blame" on her (heaven forbid my mother could *ever* be wrong!). The discussion continued and I mentioned that I simply didn't think it was a decision that a parent had the right to make. She countered that I did make a decision - deciding no counts. Well, yeah, but it has the same effect as if the doctors never asked (which they shouldn't!). Whatever. She then went on about how some people have their baby girl's ears peirced when they're infants and how that's wrong. But circ is OK. WTF? Just kinda funny in a morbid way.

Anyone else ever get that (extremely stupid) comparison?
~Melissa

[Xenogenesis]

What would she say to the judge if either one of them sued.

[Frankly Speaking]

Re: Male Circ vs. Female Ear Peircing

Originally posted by MelissaEvans
"the information was there, and I knew it when I had it done."

Just curious, why did she say she did it?



Frank

[MelissaEvans]

Hygene. She thinks boys are too stupid to care for their own genitals. She mentioned married friends where the husband is intact and the wife gets more infections. I figure if DS's wife does have a problem, then they can decide if it would be better for DS to be circ'd. She agrees that works too.

Oddly, she thought the "look like dad" was dumb. Surprised me.

~Melissa

[Frankly Speaking]

It must be something in our chromosomes. Male chromosome = Single digit IQ.



Frank

[alsoSarah]

Anyone else ever get that ¥extremely stupid¤ comparison?
~Melissa


Actually, that comparison makes a LOT of sense to me©©©
Circ is a more life-changing ¥and therefore more awful¤ thing to do to someone without their understanding or consent, but some of the underlying issues with the parents feeling that it's ok for them to *make* that decision for their kids are the same, kwim?

Not even getting into the piercing gun/hepatitis risk issues that often come into play, given how rarely people use single-use piercing needles on their young children:¥

Peace,
alsoSarah

[tandemmama]

I can see where the comparsion comes in...both are cosmetic, both are painful and unnessocary.

Circ is much more damaging, IMO, but my reasons for not piercing my dd's ears are similar (on a smaller scale) to my reasons for not circ'ing any future boys. I don't want to make that decision for her.

[MelissaEvans]

Yeah, you're right. They're both costmetic and painful and done without the permission of the owner of the body part. I guess I think ear peircing is pretty normal, but I wouldn't have done it to my kid if he ended up being a she. I think an anoying part of this conversation was that I wanted my ears peirced for a *long* time, but mom wouldn't let me until I was 12 and I could take care of 'em. (Like a 10 year old can't, but whatever, she had to be in control.) And just how she was OK with circ, but not this. A huge double standard protecting girls from something (I think) a good chunck of them do later (not that it's OK for mom to do it for them, please don't get me wrong) but not protecting a boy's genitals. Kinda rambling, I hope that makes sense. I think that most girls wouldn't be as mad about having their ears peirced later in life as men could be angry about missing part of their penis. And if the girl does get mad, she can just not wear earings and it's really hard to tell. It affects boys a lot more. Just my guess, I could be totally off base.

~Melissa

[MelMel]

we just pierced our 6 month old dd's ears...even though i would never circ a son if we have one...

i didnt think it would be a big deal, we had it done by a medical piercer (cork-no gun)...i thought she would heal better while she was too young to mess with them, and was still breastfed...when mine were pierced, they got very infected (I was 10 or so)...she healed great and they look real kewl...but...

It was pretty tramatic for us...and we wouldnt get another girls pierced, my dh kept giving me dirty looks that day, and telling me that was a mean, useless thing to do to her, especially because she didnt understand WHY she was sufferering, even if she wouldnt remember...and I felt the same.

but I am glad it happened, because he always said he would circ a boy (whetehr I signed for it or not ) but then he agreed to find out more, and has expressed anti-circ feelings! so it spared us more fighting about this bigger issue.

my daughters lobes for my sons foreskin, i can accept that trade-off! I will have to write in her journal what she spared her future brothers from!

:sinister :sinister :sinister :sinister

(forget about foreskins, find out who ripped my sinister smilies viciously away from ME)

[tandemmama]

well, I can see how you're annoyed, now...so, she's FOR circ and against ear piercing for babes..hmm..yeah, that sounds a little strange to me!

[Greaseball]

Although ideally, girls would make their own choices about if and when and what to pierce, remember...

...piercing is not permanent!

(I'm still against it.)

[NatJo Mama]

I had my ears pierced when I was an infant. But actually, the reason I don't pierce my dd's ears is because my ds is intact. I figured, if I left my ds whole, I will leave her whole too, until she asks for it.

Piercing is not permanent? I had second holes put in my ears over 15 years ago, but I don't use them. When will they close up? They haven't yet.

[weebitty2]

Originally Posted by NatJo Mama

Piercing is not permanent? I had second holes put in my ears over 15 years ago, but I don't use them. When will they close up? They haven't yet.

OT : If the piercings are in cartillage, you will ALWAYS have a small hole. In a lobe, it WILL eventually close, but it may still look like it's open, because the piercing will leave a dimpled scar.

I'm still working on figuring out how piercing a baby's ears is more cruel than genital mutilation, but ... to each their own.

[AugustLia23]

Well, DS is intact and we would never make that choice for him, but if and when I have little girls I will probably have their ears pierced at around 3 months, when mine were pierced. I wanted to pierce one of DS's ears, but SO wouldn't have it...

[morgainesmama]

It's funny -- dh wanted my boys (in an abstract if it's a boy way) to be circ'd, but made a point to say at another time in the pg "If it's a girl I don't want to pierce her ears unless she is old enough to decide she wants it done." He just couldn't see the irony.

Ultimately though I found a website about regrowing the foreskin, and when I said, "See, you and baby can be the same and nobody has to get cut!" he backed off and that was the end of conversation!

[TinyBabyBean]

If I had to pick a lesser of two evils it would be the ear piercing for sure. However, I think both acts are cruel and something the body's owner should decide. My girls still don't have their ears pierced and the oldest at 8 is just now asking to get hers done.

[Acksiom]

Y'know, what I've never understood about piercing babies' or even very young children's ears is why anybody would take the risk of the earring parts coming loose and the child swallowing them. Yow!

That's never made sense to me, but OTOH, I never see anybody bring up that point, either. OTGH, though, maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about, too . Is this a valid concern, and if not, why?

Not looking for an argument, just want to know .

[MonicaS]

Originally Posted by TinyBabyBean

If I had to pick a lesser of two evils it would be the ear piercing for sure. However, I think both acts are cruel and something the body's owner should decide.

Ditto! My DDs were both around their 4th b-days they came to ME and asked me to get their ears pierced of their own accord. I made sure I never talked about it unless it was a direct question(which may have happened twice). We discussed it for a week, how it would hurt and how it would be a quick snap, etc. I even overplayed it a bit. They did great w/ it. They were surprised when it snapped, but they didn't cry or anything. They never got infected, and they didn't fuss w/ them.

FTR, I would never let my DS(if I had one) make the circ decision at a young age(he would have to be 18+), but we're not cutting earlobes off here.

[CRosewhisper]

When I was a baby...

I had my ears pierced the old-fashioned way with a needle and thread through the holes to keep them open. My Mom told me that my Grandmother "took" me from her arms and did it with some other ladies present. My Mother didn't want it done but G-ma insisted. She said I screamed loudly and she felt bad that she didn't stop them.

While I do not equate the two at all, I do believe the issues are similiar in nature. I feel that I suffered mentally from it because I have always had major issues with needles (unconsolable screaming as a child) and I have had a reaccuring nightmare of being held down and smothered since I can remember. I guess there is no way for me to know if the ear piercing is the source of all that ingrained fear but I can't ignore the possibility. I did not know of the ear piercing incident til my Mother told me about a month ago.

Ironically when my Grandmother died one of the things of hers I have is a pair of earrings.

With circumcision being a 1000x worse I can't imagine the impressions that could leave on a young mind.

[loving-my-babies]

I would never circ, but I did pierce my dd's ears because dh wanted to and I did not say no. I regret it and would never, ever do that again BUT I feel circumcision is far worse, the pain is worse, and it cannot be taken away, his foreskin is gone forever. I would never pierce again, though.