GSE for thrush...

[my3peanuts]

I bought some in tincture form. Can I take it internally?? It says to dilute first but the health food store worker said to just drop it in my mouth and then swish it down with some water.

Also I know you can use it in baby's mouth but it seems it would be too bitter.

Any advice?

[Shanana]

No advice. But you may want to read this article about GSE first. I found it shocking. I won't use it anymore.

[CathMac]

Shanana,
Thanks for the eye opener.

Maybe someone should tell Dr. Jack Newman so he can reconsider his GSE Protocol for thrush.

Is it naive to hope that there is a safe GSE out there? If not it may be time for me to contact the Pediatrician and my doctor for Diflucan prescriptions since 2 courses of oral Nystatin for DD2 haven't done the trick.
~Cath

[tribalmax]

Just have to add that the information in this article is somewhat controversial.

My Naturopath still uses GSE and is unconvinced that it is not safe -- she has used it for extreme cases of yeast that are not responsive to other herbal treatments. She says, and I tend to agree with her, that from time to time a natural product gets bad internet press. This happened with BRAGGS liquid aminos a few years back (and I know, some people think this is also not safe) -- but there is little good research IMO for this or GSE.

I also use GSE and find it to be a potent and helpful herbal medicine for DD and myself. It is never the first thing I turn to -- but we use it from time to time.


Anyway, you should read all the info you can get your hands on and make a decision yourself -- just know that not all natural health professionals believe GSE is bad.

But for thrush, GSE would not be my first herbal remedy to try. And yes, it is WAY too bitter to put in your babe's mouth. Taste it yourself first if you have any doubts.

[LucyJaynesmom]

I mix my GSE with Chocolate soy milk to make it palatable. There's no way I would but in dd mouth.

[mimim]

I wouldn't take that article too seriously. It has no listed references. Somebody could have just made all that up, since it offers no evidence what so ever.

GSE is something to be careful with however. It's really strong (and bitter!) and kills a broad spectrum of organisms. It can kill off the good guys too, so I'd suggest you take big doses of probiotics an hour or two after you take the GSE.

[qjraven8]

i agree with the above post .. i'm sure there can be some harmful effects of the gse, as it is quite potent. i feel that with anything so potent there are opinions with facts/figures to sway both ways, but i'm of the opinion there's probably more good than harm to come out of the gse if used responsibly. and i also second using the probiotics with but not at the same time as doses of the gse in order to keep a good balance of healthy organisms in your body. i did use an extremely diluted mix of gse tincture and water on the end of a qtip and swab the obv affected areas in my ds mouth after each feeding and in a very short amount of time the white spots disappeared, so i've done it just after he wakes up or washed of his paci with it before putting it in his mouth ever since and the spots have been gone for at least a week now!!! but other than that, i've taken it in pill form and used it diluted in water with a couple drops of tea tree oil to wash myself a few times a day ... havin great results so far

[CathMac]

I'm still using the Vitamin Shoppe GSE I got, despite being put off by some of the inactive ingredients listed. In my mind they leant some credibility to the article Shanana linked above. I haven't had any time to research the inactive ingredients, which I assume are part of the GSE concentration process.

I would have been a little more skeptical about the article since it was generated by a commercial interest, however "crunchy" it may be, except that they aren't selling an alternative remedy for Thrush. On the other hand, the article is meant to highlight the fact that they do sell products that don't contain GSE so there is a potential profit driven bias there, if not an obvious one.

So, if anyone can recommend a GSE tincture with a more wholesome --if not actually organic-- concentration process I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be interested.

Thanks, ~Cath

[tribalmax]

I second that request -- there has to be a GSE that is more naturally made??

Anyone?

[qjraven8]

i use the source naturals brand, got it at my local natural foods store.

[mimie]

Here's the thing... when you're dealing with thrush that threatens the nursing relationship, the available treatments are not necessarily natural or nice. It's a matter of examining the benefits vs. risks. Gentian Violet isn't natural either. At this point, to treat thrush in my baby, my choices are Diflucan (taken internally) or GSE or Gentian Violet applied topically. I'd rather try the GSE and Gentian Violet before going to Diflucan in such a young baby.

And that article was written TERRIBLY - you could basically say the same thing about any OTC or prescription medication.

[Eben'sMama]

In weighing my options in treating thrush, I decided GSE was the lesser evil, as gentian violet is derived from coal tar and there have been studies that suggest a link between its use and oral cancer. There are no easy answers when dealing with thrush; there are risks with just about every treatment available. The best we can do is to educate ourselves and make the best decisions for ourselves and our families based on that knowledge.

I have used the Citricidal Grapefruit Seed Extract from Nutribiotic and from everything I've read, it seems to have a cleaner manufacturing process than some other brands. Their website addresses the concern about its molecular structure being similar to toxic substances, but also explains that extensive clinical trials have proven it safe. HTH...

[CathMac]

Eben's Mama,
I'll have to look into that brand and see if there are any stores near me that sell it. If not, I may order some online.

I have a stupid question. Is "Citricidal" a brand name or could it refer to a type of processing that might be a little more wholesome? The Vitamin Shoppe brand is simply called "Grapefruit Seed Extract / Citris Paradisi". It sounds positively tropical doesn't it? But I started to look the "Other" ingredients up and the first reference I found for the first ingredient "Dicalcium Phosphate", is a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), which doesn't bode well. http://msds.farnam.com/msds/m000683.htm. Skimming the MSDS quickly it looks like it poses a risk if inhaled but it doesn't appear to be carcinogenic. On the other hand section 7 - Handling & Storage, specifically states "OTHER PRECAUTIONS KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. Not for human consumption."

I haven't gotten to the other ingredients yet: microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, magnesium stearate, crascarmellose sodium, silicon dioxide (the ingredient ridiculed in the spray on cooking oil commercial), and pharmaceutical glaze.

Regarding dosage, if I recall correctly Dr. Newman's protocol calls for 10 to 15 drops per ounce of water to be increased to 20 drops if necessary. I think you are supposed to swab the baby's mouth once an hour, which we're not really religious about, although we have been improving. Also, I'm guessing it would be better to swab her mouth after she has been fed but that's problematic because that's the best time to get her down for a nap.

So...I'm wondering if anyone thinks it's safe to increase the drops beyond 20 per ounce of water. I haven't been to worried about it since she doesn't seem obviously uncomfortable and while she has a continuing minor rash it doesn't look yeasty (although we are still using Clotrimazole). So it seems like it's under control, except for some minor to moderate white patches in her mouth but it's so hard to get a good look.

I hope I don't seem to casual but since I am tandem nursing I almost feel like this is going to be an endless battle with suspected periodic reinfection from the asymptomatic toddler. That's probably the biggest reason I haven't gone back to the Pediatrician after 2 failed courses of oral Nystatin for DD2, since they won't treat DD2 as long as she doesn't seem affected. I don't see the point in putting DD2 on Diflucan if she's only going to wind up re-infected. Which may seem illogical since we are treating it with GSE, but the thinking is that's the lesser of 2 evils.

Anywhoo, for now I'll plan on getting tougher on cleaning everything with hot water and bleach or vinegar, early and often; and cutting back on sugar & junky carbs (bad time of year for that), etc., etc., etc.

Thanks for the thread.
~Cath

[appifanie]

I got the ProSeed brand GSE today. It says it's 60% vegetable glycerine and 40% citricidal. The website listed on the bottle is www.imhotepinc.com