champagne tastes and beer budgets....

[Vixenmama]

I notice a phenomenom quite frequently in these posts where the family members of the poster have high-debt, conspicuous consumption lifestyles and not the economic power to sustain it, they might even be downright poor, yet feel compelled to chastize others for not doing the same.


The post I just read about an ex-wife on an extreme budget chastizing her ex-husband because his new baby wears baby clothes and not outfits modelled after adult clothes started to make me think about this. Do you have family members or friends who really need to practice thrift and frugality but choose to spend, spend, spend, fooling themselves into thinking they're actually affluent.

I remember a post from a couple of years ago where the mom was sah and the dh worked his but off so this could happen. They were very frugal, etc. so they could do this. The sahm's bil and sil thought that since she "didn't have to work" and was staying at home, she should watch their child for free. The bil and sil had just "purchased" (on credit) a new suv and perpetrated all kinds of other economic malefesance. They never would acknowledge that sah was a choice the family was making and that they were sacrificing to do so.

I just came from a visit to my sister who'se lifestyle is permeated by this. She carries a Coach handbag and yet makes coffee with an old collander, a coffee filter and a pot. She has Chanel sunglasses, and only 4 forks so if more than 4 people are eating, someone's got to use a spoon. She is an extreme case but I'd love to hear from those of you with similar stories.

Anyone out there have any theories about this phenomenon?

[BetsyS]

I think everybody has inconsistensies in their life (for me, I cloth diaper, yet drive a SUV : ).

My mom and stepdad have NO savings for retirement. NONE. And yet my mother has more sets of china than you can imagine. Her house is gorgeous and full of knick-knacks, china, crystal, you name it. She likes to spend money. At least she doesn't complain about the lack of retirement savings very often. If she did, I think I would internally combust from not saying anything.

[Redifer]

My StepMIL is a perfect example of this. As is my BIL.

What I've seen, however, is a perfect role reversal. I was brought up in a wealthy atmosphere (4 vaca homes, multiple cars, etc). However, my family was also a very economically-smart one. For instance: my sis and I got a set spending limit for school clothes, and my mother said this: you can shop BEFORE school starts and get a few things, or shop AFTER school starts and everything is clearanced, and get a LOT of things. We always evaluated major purchases or investments. We were also taught to never base someone else's value on how much money they had: money is easier to lose than it is to earn. Money, in the grand scheme of life, means absolutely NOTHING.

DH's family was brought up poor. Whenever they had spare money, they'd blow it on all sorts of ridiculousness. His stepmother and brother were brought up that money=value, and that "keeping up with the Joneses'" is the most important thing. My FIL has claimed bankruptcy 4 times, yet keeps buying brand new vehicles. They buy Blackberries and SideKicks and plasma screen tvs. Same goes for BIL.

Now, technically, we are financially better off than FIL/BIL. Yet, our tv was picked out of the garbage and repaired. My cell phone cost me $8 and is a prepaid. Our vehicle is 10 years old. Because I was taught that those aren't the things that measure success. They only signify status, and status has never been something I craved. I don't buy things simply because the general public and the mass media tells me I should want X item. I don't own things because I "should", and that those things are "cooler" than any other things. Things are things are things. They mean nothing to me.

I see a lot of people caught up in this rat-race, gotta-have-it-but-cant-afford-it-buy-it-anyway crap. And I hate it.

[GeorgieGirlsMom]

My parents are this way to the T! My mother even had the nerve to comment that our gift to her better really good because it might be her last christmas. She has cancer and they had NO SAVINGS so they are wiped out from this. My parents have a major budgeting problem. I was diagnosed with a chronic disease over the summer so that eats a huge chunk of budget every month. So we are keeping christmas light this year. We are budgeting to get out of debt and can't afford a lot of extras; plus I REFUSE TO GO BROKE FOR ONE DAY.: My mother just doesn't get this but then again, she equates gifts with love.

Annie

[Redifer]

Originally Posted by GeorgieGirlsMom

equates gifts with love.

I think this is the general problem, except exchange "gifts" with "things". People are trying to make up for a void they feel with things. The disconnection from people around them, the rat race that always leaves you empty feeling.... so they tend to equate "things = happiness". And it doesn't happen. We don't feel any more happy with said thing than we would have without it. So we buy more things, and still don't feel better... it becomes a cycle.

[Sharlla]

I know someone that makes a pretty good living (they were bringing in about 70,000 a year) which is pretty good. The trouble is she had tons of CC debt (buying fancy cloth dipes, tons of slings etc) and she had a huge mortgage and 2 car payments as well as expensive hobbies and things like high cost cable tv etc. So of course she is always complaining about being broke but she's not willing to down grade her lifestyle.

Dh made a little less than 27G last year and she doesn't understand how we can live off of so little. It's because we basically have no debt. We have a mortgage free home that we are slowly fixing up, we own 2 older cars, don't have cable tv etc. But then again we can afford to buy nice things for cash.

[phatchristy]

I have a family member who's like that....my SIL, who loves to shop and has this "need" to have what everyone else she admires (the wealthy society types) have. And, yes, my brother does "well" (a little six figures), but their expenses are insanely high. He's cheap and compensates for things by being really thrifty.

I have met so many people who make LARGE salaries and are still in massive debt. It just seems for some the more they make, the more they spend. :

[earthmama369]

My SIL and her partner don't have credit debt, but they both live way beyond their means and karmically it seems like they're racking it up.

They just moved back in with my MIL, with their son. They trash her house and expect her to take care of their son on top of her 3 jobs. I've literally seen SIL hand him off to her mom and say, "Here, he needs a diaper change." Then go sit at the computer 5 feet away and ignore them. They won't pay rent or contribute to the groceries or utilities.

And yet they have plenty of money for cigarettes and going out for drinks. Cell phones, movies, makeup, new tattoos, impressively scary dog (with papers), TV, cars (SIL's bf races cars as a hobby). SIL only ever wants gift cards to Victoria's Secret or Abercrombie & Fitch for presents. They buy my nephew (3) all kinds of toys -- a mini ATV (no helmet), all the dvds he could want, etc. -- but he has yet to go to a single playgroup or playdate, much less a preschool or early ed. program. Because . . . gas is so expensive! :

I've known her since she was in elem. school and she was an artistic, awesome little girl. She's just gotten so lost. At this point, I just want to sit down and lay it out for her, because they're making such poor financial choices and now they're treating the people they depend on really badly, too, which is a whole 'nother level of uncool.

[Belleweather]

My sister is actually diagnosed with a compulsive shopping disorder; she works as a waitress and buys designer clothes (not "name brand", actual designer clothes) on her credit cards. Once every year or so she completely freaks out and works 80+ hour weeks at two jobs and pays down her credit card debt, gets herself completely, fantasticly sick with some weird disease, and then runs the cards up again to make herself feel better.

At least now that she's got a formal dx she's stopped wondering why other people don't live the same way she does.

[serenetabbie]

Hmm... what is it with our SILs?

My SIL is the same way. Both of them are. I wonder sometimes how they can have such different values from Dh, coming from the same parents. One time my one SIL said to me "How can anyone live on X amount of $$ a year?! That is, like, so poor! I can't even live on what I make." I was a little upset, since the figure she named was way more than what we bring home... but I don't think she realizes that.

I have no theory on why they feel the need to have the best & newest of everything. They did grow up in an affluent area, so maybe they really think that is how people should live. My one SIL said to me that "it's the american way to be in debt, it's no big deal". Going to her neighborhood is like going to Stepford. All the houses look the same, have the same SUV in the drive way (although the house's and car's colors are different), the same ChemGreen lawn. I always have to look for the address on the house when I go, since there are three houses on her block the same color and with the same cars. Maybe it's an issue of fitting in?

BTW... For a minute I thought this thread would be about how to have nicer things while being frugal, which is SO up my alley

[Vixenmama]

BTW... For a minute I thought this thread would be about how to have nicer things while being frugal, which is SO up my alley

Well, doesn't that sound like a nice positive thread...go ahead and start it--I'll chime in. I'm fascinated by contradictions and disfunction...but I know it's important not to dwell on it. Your idea sounds great!

[charmcitymama]

Originally Posted by Vixenmama

I just came from a visit to my sister who'se lifestyle is permeated by this. She carries a Coach handbag and yet makes coffee with an old collander, a coffee filter and a pot. She has Chanel sunglasses, and only 4 forks so if more than 4 people are eating, someone's got to use a spoon. She is an extreme case but I'd love to hear from those of you with similar stories.

Anyone out there have any theories about this phenomenon?

You're probably right, but, I downsize my silverware collection for a Coach bag.

[Redifer]

LOL charmcitymomma... I have to admit, I'd trade ALL my silverware for a pair of Coach boots I just saw at TJ Maxx marked down from $400 to $150... I am in LOVE with them, with or without the designer tag...

[velochic]

I think it's mostly about appearances. As redifer was saying, some people find validation in things rather that in relationships. But mostly, I think that people will buy themselves into serious debt to make it SEEM that they are affluent to others. So, if it is an item that others will be witness to, they splurge and if nobody will see it, they don't care. Most of the time all of these appearances are built on a house of (credit) cards. Anybody can appear affluent if they use credit cards to buy everything!

I have been advocating on these boards for a long time to think of your finances in terms of NET WORTH. So many people live paycheck to paycheck and have no savings at all... their net worth is negative. People buy a car because the monthly payments fit into their budget... but they don't think about whether or not the car will affect their net worth and whether or not they are getting a good deal. A new car loses about 20% of its value the MINUTE you drive it off the lot. But people still insist on buying new cars because they think it's a status symbol.

I think it's a shame that people put themselves into such debt and stress so much about finances because they care what other people think about them. People would probably faint if we told them our net worth... we live very humbly and by appearances, we definitely don't seem as wealthy as we are. But we'd rather save and have a stress-free retirement and leave our dd comfortable financially than to have "things" now. I hate to see what is going to happen to these people when they can no longer work. They're going to wish they'd saved.

[velochic]

Oops... double post

[Amys1st]

I know plenty of people who live a lifestyle they cannot afford or they are on their way to huge debt. I think the media in general (meaning tv, ads, etc) that in order to be fabulous, you need to have this or that. Heck, when some of the younger generation of moms in my momsgroup go out, the drinks they order are more than the meal! And its not like, hey its a one time thing- they order these drinks normally! I see younger people driving SUVs and the like and I am thinking, I drove a tiny car until I was 30!

But, OTH, younger people have different expenses than when I was in my early 20s. School and housing are much much more than when I went 15 years ago. But also, now these people need cell phones, designer purses, eyeglasses etc. And it all can be bought with plastic. Savings is like a foreign thing to this group.

[Redifer]

Exactly, velochic, it becomes a "status" thing. People need those items that signify "status".

I don't even possess a credit card. I refuse to. If I can't buy it with cash, I can't afford it, and I don't need it. What I DO have is a safe. A small little safe, in which, on payday, we put all of the money in the safe, except for what we've budgeted out for food and neccessities. It's much harder to spend extra cash if you have to lug 100 lb safe with you.

[***Heather***]

We run into this now and then with our families. DH is the baby of his family so sometimes I get the feeling that they think we're too poor/haven't gotten on our feet yet/we don't know how the real world is yet etc. All his other siblings also own a house so I think this adds to their feeling of superiority.

Anyways, we had this great 27" tv. After 8 years, it stopped working. We said to H with it and are using a second hand 20+ year old tv that my parents gave us. It works FINE. We're so PO that our original tv broke that we've decided to wait a year or 2 or 3 then buy a really good flat screen tv when they come down in price. DH's brother and SIL are aghast that we're using an old tv. They started asking questions about whether we're doing ok moneywise etc. : We're tell them we're fine but they start exchanging "looks". AHHHH!!! Another reason this bothers me is that while DH is the baby of HIS family, I'm second oldest of 5 kids in mine. I'm used to doing what I want AND taking care of the others.

[mightymoo]

I can relate to this. My mom is funny in that she has the champagne tastes, but always complains she can't afford the nice stuff, but she spends so much money on cheap crap. If its less than $10 than its 'why not, even if it breaks its only $10 (or less)' - yet she'll look at a $150 item and say 'oh way too much money' - but she spends $150 constantly on crap she doesn't need or will break. It drives me nuts.

For me the big thing is not being wasteful. If the expensive item is worth the money in that you enjoy it, it is useful and used often or brings you joy and the less expensive equivilient would not bring you as much joy or would not work as well or last as long, then I have no problem with it.

What drives me nuts is when people coimplain about not being able to afford this or that. Most of them could afford it,but they spend their money on other things, really its a low priority item they wish they made so much money they could afford all their whims.

[Sharlla]

We bought a 20 inch flat screen tv at WM 4 years ago for $189. We have recently given it to DS1 and DH and I got a 42 plasma TV ($1800) Seems like a lot but we had the money for it and we wanted to treat ourselves to something nice.