another vit K injection thread

[chelsmm]

I have a few questions that I was unable to find answers for in previous threads. I am hoping that some of the very knowledgeable people on this forum can help, so I hope this doesn't get moved!

I can't seem to find a link to a vit k drug insert. My pharmacy at work (teaching hosp in Boston) told me that they have never had a request for one and don't have them here : I need to know what's in it ahead of time. I know there is aluminum because the vial says so. That concerns me.

I feel that babies are born as they should be...if there's a vit k "deficiency" according to the med community, there's probably a reason. HOWEVER, I also feel that my diet may not be as high in vit K as maybe a person's diet was 2000 years ago. Maybe that's why babies have less vit k now...our diets stink. If that's the case, maybe my baby does need vit k....I will increase my vit K intake in my third trimester (as my hyperemesis allows), but I know that not much vit k transfers across the placenta.

I worry about taking vit K supp or increasing my dietary K after birth because I have a hx of phlebitis, and I am concerned about raising my chances of a pp blood clot.

I worry about oral vit K for the baby because I have learned here that anything besides bm added to a baby's gut will change it.

I worry because bf babies are at a higher risk for haemorrhagic disease of the newborn.

I am looking for opinions of these things. Also, I am curious to find out when Vit K became routine in the US. I can't for the life of me figure that out. My step mom is certain my sibs didn't get the shot in 1990. Could it be that this is that new here?

So, I'm looking for a drug insert link, your thoughts on why babies are lower in vit k than doctors think they should be, thoughts on if mother nature maybe didn't make a mistake, but our diets have changed and the babies bodies have not compensated, and any other info you would like to share.

Thanks so much,

[apelilae]

NAK

I learned that Vit K started being given bc many babies had severe bruising during CB, through forceps and vaccums. So, since some got it, all got it. My midwives said it's just routine, but they didn't advise it unless there was severe bruising present. I impressed the hospital pedi by asking about the bruising. It was very mild and was decreasing. I also took Vit K vitamins during the 37 week to delivery and until he was 1 month old. HTH

[Spy]

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/VitaminK.html
http://www.medicinenet.com/vitamin_k...on/article.htm
http://*********/v/vitamin_k.html

[miriam]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K

I do not like wikipedia because it is contributory, so the information may not be accurate, but this article is interesting.

I read in my 16th edition of Williams' Obstetrics 1976 that breastmilk has no vitamin K in it and therefore all babies are deficient in Vitamin K (blame the mother!). Then I read in my Myles Book of Midwifery that there are trace amounts of Vitamin K in the hind milk of colostrum and therefore breastfed babies do get some vitamin K in their early days, if they are breastfed. This is based on a study in 1987. (Kries, et al. Pediatric Research 22(5): 513-517).

The value of universal Vitamin K administration was countered in Lancet in 1977 in a study done by Dr. J.M. Doorm, A.D. Muller, and H.C. Hemker.
"We conclude that healthy babies, contrary to current beliefs, are not likely to have Vitamin K deficiency....the administration of Vitamin K to the newborn is not supported by our findings."

Vitamin K was discovered in the 1920s.

Just guessing, but by the 1930s when so many laboring women marched off to deliver their babies in the maternity wards and experiencing forcep deliveries, vacuum extractions, and subjecting their newborn sons to early circumcisions, ... that may be when vitamin K was given to newborn babies ... to counteract all of the awful things that the hospital did to the babies.

I worry because bf babies are at a higher risk for haemorrhagic disease of the newborn.

What is your source for this statement?

[Amila]

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...rient&dbid=112

That is a link with the foods that have the most Vit K and their percentages. HTH!

[snowbird25ca]

http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2...EPHYTON_PI.pdf

Link to package insert.


I took alfalfa supps and also drank alfalfa tea in the last trimester of my pregnancy with ds. The NICU had a conniption fit about us refusing the vit K, but in my heart I knew ds was fine - and he was. No problems whatsoever.

I think that we're born low in vit K naturally & that mother nature doesn't screw up. Even with a perfec tdiet I think newborns would still be classed as vit K deficient. Many if not most/all mammals are born with low levels of vit K.

I was born in 76 and wasn't given vit K. Neither of my younger bro's got it either and the youngest was born in 83.

There are 3 different types of hemorrhagic disease of the newborn. They're classified based on time of onset and each type tends to have a different cause. Any in the first 24hrs after birth is not something that could be treated by the vit K shot. It is usually related to a medication the mother was taking during pregnancy - some anticonvulsants are the primary culprits.. The ones from 2 to 7 days tend to be the one that the shot could prevent. Keep in mind that even without the shot, the risk of hdn is only 1 in 100 000. Late onset hdn occurs mostly in bf babies that also have gut issues. Like celiacs, crohns, that kind of thing... there's almost always an underlying physical condition in babies who have late onset.

Vit K comes about 50% from diet and the rest is synthesized by the flora in our intestines. Babies start developing gut flora immediately after birth when they nurse. You can also assist in the process by giving probiotics.. that had originally been our plan with ds but him being in the NICU made that not an option.

Anyways, ultimately it's up to you. I firmly believe though that if we were born needing vit K, we'd be born with a needle. Mother nature doesn't make the same mistake with every baby. If we're all born with "low" levels of vit K, then that's the way we are meant to be born. And the classification they use for low is rather arbitrary considering that they have no choice but to base it on older babies or children's "normal" levels. Also, when you do more research you'll see that they don't even know the precise mechanism that the vit K shot prevents hdn.

[DucetteMama21842]

No big help, just glad that someone gave me info at the same time I was looking for it myself.:

[chelsmm]

Thanks for the good links. I've read through the archives and the links, and of course, still have a few questions!

Trudy- You mentioned that many mammals are not born with a lot of Vit K...I've seen this written here many times, but no links. Do you have a link? (I'm not being snarky, I'm just very interested in this and would like "proof" for my dh)

miriam- I wrote that I thought that hdn is more common in bf babies simply because formula is supplemented with vit k, therefore bf babies are more at risk to have lower levels of k. I guess this doesn't mean that they are higher risk for hdn though? I have recently read that early bf (colostrum) and hindmilk are higher in k, so eases my mind a bit.

Thank you all, everyone's comments have been helpful!

[annettemarie]

Moving to birth and beyond.

[mwherbs]

as for dietary issues-- I would recommend that you get atleast the RDA 90 mcg and actually I would probably say far more than the RDA something closer to 3-4 servings of green veggies/day (cooked or raw) this would just be a guess because there are no studies that provide the info on optimal amount for breastfeeding-but the studies on aging including the Framingham one suggest 250-450 mcg a day is protective of bone health -- since you are in Boston, the Sarah Boothe at Tuffs is one that heads up the studies on vitamin K and aging. they sponsored a newer provisional table on vitamin K content in foods--
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcom...ther/pt104.pdf

here is the info on 2 brands of vitamin K-- I think that there was a link to one of them already sent


2 different package inserts--
Full Prescribing Information
MIMS revision date: 05/01/1999
Composition Active. Phytomenadione (vitamin K1).
Inactive. PEG-35 castor oil (solvent).
Description Chemical name: 2-methyl-3- phytyl-1,4- naphthaquinone. It is a clear, yellow, very viscous, odourless or nearly odourless oil. MW: 450.7. It is insoluble in water, soluble 1 in 70 in alcohol, more soluble in dehydrated alcohol; soluble in benzene, chloroform, ether and vegetable oils. It is stable in air but decomposes on exposure to light.
------------------------
-------------------------------
this is the the brand I see most--- as injectable vitamin K--
AquaMEPHYTON injection is a yellow, sterile, aqueous colloidal solution of vitamin K 1 with a pH of 5.0 to 7.0, available for injection by the intravenous, intramuscular, and subcutaneous routes.
Each milliliter contains:
Phytonadione....... 2 mg or 10 mg

Inactive ingredients:
Polyoxyethylated fatty acid derivative .... 70 mg
Dextrose ...37.5 mg
Water for Injection, q.s. .... 1 mL
Added as preservative:
Benzyl alcohol .. 0.9%
Data are unavailable on the toxicity of other preservatives in
this age group. There is no evidence to suggest that the small amount of benzyl alcohol contained in AquaMEPHYTON, when used as recommended, is associated with toxicity.
-------------------------------------------

[mwherbs]

to address more recent studies breastmilk and colostrum do have vitamin K in them-- and then there was a revision in how we measure vitamin K -- Frank Greer in WI a ped-- and studies in Japan supplemented breastfeeding moms and sure enough supplementation raised the amount in breastmilk-- but none of these researchers discovered how much it would take to be preventative of HDN/LHDN and yes I will say it breastfed infants who do not receive supplemental vitamin K are THE at risk population for having HDN/LHND there are other things that increase the risk like trauma, resuscitation, metabolic disorders, antibiotic exposure, liver and gall bladder disease, diarrhea

for more research look to PUB MED
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed