Son bullied by three year olds - Page 2

[beanma]

oh, i disagree. i think it's perfectly normal, though probably needs addressing. if i was upset i would have said something myself if the other moms didn't step in. i remember being at a 4 year old little boy friend's house for a playgroup and the two of the kids were talking about a big machine that was going to come in the window and cut them all to pieces. this was a VERY gentle AP playgroup and very gentle parents and kids. this is just normal developmentally. that is not to make excuses for the moms and say it didn't need to be dealt with. if it is threatening to another child or mom it definitely needs to be addressed. if the moms don't do it feel free to step in yourself.

i know how that can feel when someone threatens your child. grrrrrr... just yesterday i had to rescue my 5 yr old from a hug turned tackle. another little girl had hugged her and ended up pushing her to the ground where my dd1 slightly scraped her palm and was crying. the other mom was right there, but didn't say a thing because she was talking to someone else, so you bet i did.

don't stew over these things, just step in if nobody else will. "hey, that's not nice!" or "i don't like the way that sounds and i don't think baby does either. please use gentle words and hands around baby."

hth

[hhurd]

Originally Posted by PumpkinSeeds

Personally, the situation described in the OP wouldn't have shocked me very much. Do three year old's always make the best choices when trying to interact with others? No. Do I think the mother should have intervened? Yes. WOuld I have intervened? Yes. Would I have called the 3yo a bully or put the everlasting fear of G. in him? No.

Amen to that!

Three was the hardest age for me. Agression, agression, agression, whether it was "tolerated" by us or not.

And, a 3yo cannot (developmentally) be a bully.

[Finch]

Originally Posted by NewCrunchyDaddy

Yes I will ... and that sort of behavior will not be tolerated and will be stopped immediately

Oh dear, please take that statement back. Seriously. You'll be eating fresh baked crow with those words in 2 years is my prediction. I made a lot of "when my child is x age or when my child does such and such I will________" statements, and they were all WRONG wrong wrong. It all changes when it's your kid. My child can be unbelievably aggressive, it's part of the fact that he's a toddler and also that he has autism. I curb it when I can, shield other children and adults diligently, and apologize when he manages to hurt someone . But his aggression literally cannot be controlled sometimes. Literally. All I can do is remove him from other people or the other way 'round, no amount of "discipline" will stop him, his brain just doesn't work that way.

[Finch]

Originally Posted by beanma

oh, i disagree. i think it's perfectly normal, though probably needs addressing. if i was upset i would have said something myself if the other moms didn't step in. i remember being at a 4 year old little boy friend's house for a playgroup and the two of the kids were talking about a big machine that was going to come in the window and cut them all to pieces. this was a VERY gentle AP playgroup and very gentle parents and kids. this is just normal developmentally. that is not to make excuses for the moms and say it didn't need to be dealt with. if it is threatening to another child or mom it definitely needs to be addressed. if the moms don't do it feel free to step in yourself.

i know how that can feel when someone threatens your child. grrrrrr... just yesterday i had to rescue my 5 yr old from a hug turned tackle. another little girl had hugged her and ended up pushing her to the ground where my dd1 slightly scraped her palm and was crying. the other mom was right there, but didn't say a thing because she was talking to someone else, so you bet i did.

don't stew over these things, just step in if nobody else will. "hey, that's not nice!" or "i don't like the way that sounds and i don't think baby does either. please use gentle words and hands around baby."

hth

:

[mamaduck]

And, a 3yo cannot (developmentally) be a bully.

Thank you for saying that!

I think its GREAT that the problem of bullying is getting more attention these days, and that adults are more hypervigilent and proactive about nipping it in the bud. But I think that generalizing the problem to the extent of including developmentally normal behaviors in very young children creates further problems. There has to be some room for growing, learning, and making mistakes.

Also, it weakens the case against real bullying -- and as I understand it, there has to be a genuine threat involved for it to be bullying. Two 5th graders on the playground, threatening violence to a 3rd grade child when no adult is present to see -- is a very different scenerio than two three year old toddler's playing too aggressively and being verbally innapropriate toward babies in a room full of adults.

[**guest**]

i'm not very comfortable with labels in general, even with 'positive' ones, i feel especially uncomfortable when the word 'bully' is applied to a 3 year old.

i agree with pps that their behaviour was normal 3-year old stuff. i would have said something that was already mentioned, i would have stated that that wasn't appropriate, then redirected or modeled something appropriate to say, depending on their interest. yet i can certainly see a parent who might just get embarassed, especially if feeling judged. we also need to remember that LLL meetings could be stressful for toddlers -- adults, children, new environment etc.

it is possible that these mothers had younger cousins or other babies that these toddlers frequently interracted with -- even though this was not an appropriate interaction, one gets more accustomed to normal toddler behaviour and to normal baby reactions -- most of the times babies are not upset.

when dd was almost 3 and her brother was 4 months, she would often tickle him, and while she tickled gently, she was also reenacting a lion , and he loved it. then at a LLL meeting she came over to another baby and tickled him, exactly how she would tickle her brother. the baby didn't mind at all, he was amused. the mother was horriefied. accidently, that was also a mother was talked about bullying on our group list, and she was also bullied as a child. she later started a topic about bullying and it was obvious that she was referring to my dd 'assaulting' her baby.

i can understand a new mother's reaction of overprotectiveness, when every older child seems huge and dangerous, and 'should be mature enough' and behave like an adult. but labeling this as bullying is not appropriate either.

you went through horrendous experiences as a child. i'd like to offer your empathy and compassion. i'd also like to suggest to you to start working on healing yourself. very soon your adorable baby will be an adorable toddler. because of your experiences, you might perceive his normal behaviours in a negative light, especially if you unconsciously categorise every behaviour as either bullying or not. this will be terrible if you see your own child as a 'bully'.

please take care of yourself.

[Canadianmommax3]

My dd who is 2.5 and i were at goodwill yesterday looking at the books and there was a boy about 4 who was with his either babysitter or grandmother. He walked up to my daughter got right in her face and said go away loudly!!
Grandma was right there and said nothing, so i took dd and we walked away elsewhere. We came back when he was in another section but he came back and walked up to dd and pushed her. Well i got pissed real quick and told him not to push her she is just a little girl and and wasn't doing anything to him. Well he changed his tune quickly and tried to hand her a toy.
She just backed away from him.
I tell you when someone is mean to my daughter my GD towards the other child wants to take a flying leap out the window!! I wanted to say listen you little snot keep your hands to yourself. but i didn't

[captain optimism]

Originally Posted by Sarain

However, nothing was done. The mother's did not seem to think this was a big deal. One mom my just said "oh my" and giggled a bit. I don't think my baby getting bullied is amusing or cute at all.
Are these mother's afraid to correct, and teach thier children about bullying, violence, as well as kindness, and feelings?? Also at this meeting these two little boy's were yelling, banging around and what not while the mom's were trying to talk! One new mom was very up-set and crying beacause she's having a lot of problems with breastfeeding, but we could hardly hear her with the boy's bashing toys together! Is this what GD is? Or are these just mom's who are affraid to correct/teach thier kids??

No, this is not what GD is.

These moms might have been too tired or overwhelmed to deal with their older children. That's not GD; that's lack of resources.

It's okay for you to intervene and tell them you don't want them saying violent things to your baby. You can even be stern about it. In most cases that should be enough to make it stop!

[newmommy]

OP, do make sure you place the blame where it *belongs*:

NOT the 3 year olds.

Their Moms.

It doesn't excuse their behaviors but they are THREE.

You are going to run into these type of situations all the time (where Mothers refuse to discipline their child(ren) where appropriate).

I have no problems stepping up when another Parent won't. When DS was that age, I had to step in plenty of times. I don't *wait* for a signal, I step in and respond accordingly.

[mesa]

to the OP, I would have felt the exact same way you did if faced with that situation. There's nothing more powerful than the mama bear emotions, and I feel for you. I'm sorry that some of the posters here don't think your reaction was appropriate....hindsight is always 20/20 and it's really easy to sit back and say what you "would" have done or how you would have reacted in that situation.

When it comes to my kid's feelings and self esteem vs. "some other kid" who may or may not have been serious in what he has said to my child, I will ALWAYS defend my child. In the moment, you often don't have time to sit back and analyze, well, Johnny *may* be feeling this way, and that's why he said what he did....or Susie is just picking that up from her next door neighbor's kids. No....the simple truth is, what they said was WRONG, their mothers should have done something about it (if only to placate the mom of the kid wronged) or I would have left. Simple as that.

People parent their kids differently, and GD (to me) doesn't mean letting your child run roughshod over smaller weaker children (whether your kid is 3 or 13...at what age does it become inappropriate? When are they supposed to learn?) or, conversely, allowing your child to be pushed around or spoken rudely to by larger, stronger, older children.

I'm sorry that happened to you. I can't even count the numbers of times I have had similar things happen to my boys on the playground, and the sick, angry feeling it brings up in the pit of your stomach is very real, and very unpleasant. Nobody wants to see their children hurt, and I agree with NewCrunchyDaddy that I would (and HAVE) put the fear of God into them. And I refuse to apologize for it.

If a child is being deliberately mean to mine (or mine is to another child) not just saying goofy things...I have boys, they say some pretty off the wall stuff sometimes, but I gauge my reaction based on the other child's reaction, I will react swiftly, strongly, and in no uncertain terms let it be known that said behavior will NOT be tolerated. I have been known to say, (in a loud enough voice for child's mom to hear) That is NOT nice! While picking up my son and saying to him, I'm sorry honey, some kids just don't understand very well how to play like a friend.

If mom is on her cell phone, eating, or talking with friends (and ignoring her kid...happens a lot) I have been known to walk over to her and open my sharp mouth about supervising her kid. I've done it to neglectful dog owners in the dog park, too, when their dogs were bullying mine.

I'm angry for you, and I wasn't even there. Hugs to you

[mamaduck]

Mesa, I'm assuming that the OP wants to remain a part of this LLL group, and share a minimally respectful and friendly relationship with the other mothers. Your approach will not accomplish that.

[PumpkinSeeds]

I personally don't take the approach of "showing them who is boss" and "putting the fear of G. into them" and "using my sharp mouth" to make a point especially where children are concerned.

[PumpkinSeeds]

But I understand that the OP has had some bullying in her past. And I think that perhaps it's something she needs to address at some point because I don't think it's healthy to adopt an attitude of "us versus the big bad world" especially when we are talking about relatively normal toddler behaviour.

[hhurd]

Mesa, the OP asked us what we thought. We told her, quite respectfully and sympathetically. This is a gentle discipline forum, putting the "fear of god" into a toddler won't be all that well received.

[mesa]

My story was to illustrate my reaction to mothers in the park, who blatantly ignore their children who throw sand, shove babies face first into the sand, steal toys, pull hair, call names, threaten violence, etc etc. I feel that "using my sharp tongue" on the MOTHERS is perfectly appropriate.

Now, I understand that the OP wants to remain a part of this group. That's fine, of course she should temper her reaction to avoid offending these mothers. Personally, I wouldn't bite my tongue and suffer in silence to avoid offending those around me, never have....and that's probably why I don't join "playgroups" or "Mommy and Me" classes. That's just me, though. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was encouraging the OP to b*tch out these moms.

[mamaduck]

Definately start a new thread, Mesa. I will definately respond. Could be a really interesting conversation! You may want to consider putting in the "school" forum.

[Finch]

FTR, y'all, it wasn't the OP who made the "fear of God" statement.

Just had to interject that......

[Cheshire]

Take a deep breath. I understand your protective feelings, we all do.

Whenever I'm in a situation where my son has been the object of another child's aggression I do one of three things:

1. If it is a new situation, I don't know the child, etc. and if a parent hasn't stepped right in I step in and treat the child as I would my own. I'll tell them to stop whatever they are doing, explain that it is not polite/friendly/etc. (insert right word for the situation) and offer an alternative play idea that involves everyone.

2. If it is a new situation and I realize my child is not able to play with the other kids because of an age difference (too old, too young) and a parent doesn't step right in and talk to their aggressive child I'll talk to the child like I would my own and then I'd find another area for my son to play so he isn't being the aggressive one (toddlers have a tendency to be aggressive toward smaller kids IME) or so he isn't a target for older kids.

3. If it is a situation where I know the child and I know that the child is aggressive towards my son I limit their exposure and play along with them. I have a dear friend whose son constantly seeks out my son to pick on. He is the kind of child you can see it in his face and he is very aggressive (my cracker jack psychology degree leads me to believe this is because he is raised in a super strict home with lots of "spankings"). He can be sweet but most of the time he seeks out smaller kids to test out his "power" on. I hate that my friend and her husband have chosen to raise their kids this way so we limit our time with them and hope that when the kids are older it will be better.

Honestly, I try my hardest to give other kids the benefit of the doubt and try and treat them as I would want someone else to treat my son.

I hear your frustration in your post and wonder if a lot of it isn't coming from the 3 year olds or the other moms but instead is some of it coming from the fact that you didn't know how to react? There have been plenty of times I've come home fuming and the reason isn't because of what happened but I'm mad because I didn't react the way I would have wanted to. Or, I couldn't come up with a response quick enough even though on the way home I came up with 20 great ones.

Now that you've been in the situation (and something similar will happen again and again so long as you hang around other kids) you can come up with a few blanket responses to keep in mind. When your hackels (sp?) are raised it can be hard to think straight so if you have something to start your response with that is gentle yet firm it will get you going on the right track.

Those other mommas probably just needed guidance. And also I've found that if you set the tone for the type of play that will be tolerated others will follow.

Hugs to you and your little one!!!

[mesa]

Originally Posted by Cheshire

I hear your frustration in your post and wonder if a lot of it isn't coming from the 3 year olds or the other moms but instead is some of it coming from the fact that you didn't know how to react? There have been plenty of times I've come home fuming and the reason isn't because of what happened but I'm mad because I didn't react the way I would have wanted to. Or, I couldn't come up with a response quick enough even though on the way home I came up with 20 great ones.

Now that you've been in the situation (and something similar will happen again and again so long as you hang around other kids) you can come up with a few blanket responses to keep in mind. When your hackels (sp?) are raised it can be hard to think straight so if you have something to start your response with that is gentle yet firm it will get you going on the right track.

NIIICE, Cheshire. Much more eloquent than I said it . For me, a lot of the anger later (if I didn't say anything) comes from guilt at not sticking up for my child. And when the hackles come up, and adrenaline is flowing, and tears are threatening, it's really really hard to not have a knee jerk reaction. Maybe I should come up with some responses, too. Thank you.

[Cheshire]

Thanks. I don't think all that fast on my feet but give me a little time and I'm usually pretty good at coming up with responses.

So, knowing my "weakness" I play a lot of "what if" scenarios in my mind. I can't ever think of them all and am caught off guard quite a bit but sometimes I luck out and something I've actually thought of happens and I get to use a pre-thought-out response.

Welcome to another stage of motherhood. Dealing with other kids is no easy task especially when you feel yours has been threatened.

Oh, also, remember that the behavior you use towards other agressive children will be a great model for how your child will react as he gets older. If you remain calm and in control he will learn to be the same. If you let your emotions overcome you then he will have a harder time learning how to respond to aggression (and he does pick up on your vibes so try and keep those calm, too).

If you don't handle a situation well (when he's old enough to talk about it) be sure and talk to him about it. Let him know you'd like to have handled it better and ask if he has any suggestions on how you could have handled it better.