Phonics and learning to read

[MamaDimstam]

My dd is 6 1/2 and in grade 1. She's a great reader, according to her teacher, but there's one interesting thing- she reads almost exclusively by recognizing whole words and is really weak on her phonetic sounds. She is reading 1 to 2 grades above typical reading level for her age, but her teacher said that because she doesn't know her phonics, she got a B+ on her interim report, instead of an A. (I have issues with kids this young even getting letter grades, but I'll save that rant for a whole other post!)

I do think it's important for her to get those letter-sound association, and I'm more than prepared to work with her at home on them. She's an enthusiastic reader so I think she'll be keen to learn, especially if it's fun.

The other possibility I'm wondering about is just her style of reading...I think she might actually know many phonetic sounds, but because she's an impatient, smart (and maybe a touch lazy) kind of kid, she gives up on sounding out a word if she doesn't recognize it whole.

I'm just wondering if anyone out there has been in a similar boat and how they've taught phonics. Have you used any of the programs out there like Hooked on Phonics or Jolly Phonics, and what's your experience and opinion of them?

TIA!

[zinemama]

I really expected my son to learn to read phonetically. Because I did and it makes sense to me. His teacher, however, told us that he was a whole-word recognizer. She didn't inform of us this to say there was a problem with it, though! She has the attitude that different kids learn to read in different ways, and as long as they do learn to read, it's no big deal.

So if your dd's teacher admits she's reading above her age level, I would totally relax about it. She will be just fine and she will figure out the phonics (on her own, I'd bet).

[Thalia the Muse]

If she's reading that well, I suspect she is sounding out unfamiliar words -- I doubt she really knows thousands and thousands of words purely by sight.

Maybe she just gets bored with phonics exercises in class and blows them off? If she's reading well, she really doesn't need to be drilled in phonics IMO.

[Flor]

Generally I agree that a child that is sight reading above grade level doesn't need to go back and learn phonics, but if she is only in first grade, above grade level is only 2nd grade or so. She may need phonics later when she begins to be faced with longer, more complex words. I can't believe that get GRADES in first grade. Our district is considered very backwards and not up on the latest in education at all, and our students don't get letter grades till 6th grade. They just get rated "meets grade level standard"
"exceeds grade level standard" or "does not meet grade level standard" in each (very detailled) area. I imagine she will pick this up easily, and I'm not sure how much I would worry about it.

[NoHiddenFees]

DD1 was an early reader, and a sight reader like myself. FWIW, I believe that sight readers work down to "chunking" out words while phonetic readers work up to it. It do not believe (based on myself and my experience with DD1) that true sight readers must necessarily learn to sound out words letter by letter and blend by blend. We did use a phonics book (well after she had started to read), but not as intended; we skipped the lessons, but worked through the word lists and "stories" in The Ordinary Parent's Guide to Teaching Reading. I figured it might help her intuit whatever she needed to intuit about phonics by reading words with phonetic patterns, or at least build up a big store of "chunks." If she didn't know a word, I read it for her and she moved on. At no point did I explain the "rules." I honestly don't know if it helped her, but it didn't hurt... her reading ability continues to improve, just from practice... and boy does she like to read.

[Thalia the Muse]

I can't believe that get GRADES in first grade

That does seem weird.

[momto l&a]

Personally phonics do me no good. They are how I was taught to read. Love to read and voracious reader but forget the phonics,useless

My aunt who is dyslexic doesn't use phonics, she is totally by sight.

There are so many different ways a person learns that maybe it just isnt your dd's way. Shame on the teacher for giving her a lower grade for that though when your dd reads above her grade with no problems.

[crl]

Well, my mom says she has no idea how I learned to read. My school used phonics, but I pretty obviously do not-- my spelling makes that clear. FWIW, I am and was an excellent reader. It is my one, true academic stength. I do not know anyone who reads faster than I do (and my family all loves to read) and I always tested very well for comprehension. And all my life people have commented on the size of my vocabulary. . . . So I wouldn't worry about the phonics and I think it is weird and wrong of the teacher to lower your daughter's grade because of the method she uses to achieve the goal.

[MamaDimstam]

You all pretty much said what I've felt in my gut- that, bottom line, she IS reading and she's reading well, so in the grand scheme of things this is good. I am meeting with her teacher tomorrow, and I'm going to try to clarify if her lack of phonetic reading is being seen as a major problem. I do see a use for knowing phonetic sounds, but I'm not deeply worried that she's not using them right now. I'll see if her teacher feels the same way.

And yeah, I have a major problem with grading. Period. I remember when I was in school, we were graded up until grade 8 with simply "excellent", "very good", "satisfactory", or "needs improvement." My kids go to a public alternative school, which philosophically is opposed to grading, but it has to assign grades because the ministry of education forces them to. Parents have the option of seeing a report with the actual grades whited out, and only reading the narrative, but dh and I figured that, heck, if the grades have to be assigned and they're in her permanent school record, we should know what they are. I don't like the idea of stuff being in her file that I don't know about, you know?

[Liz]

I just replied to you in the thread on visual learners. I'll repeat it here:

"Hey, fellow Ontarian Mom of a grade one public school student! I just went through my first report card and parent teacher conference, too. My son got all Bs from a B- in reading to B+ in Social Studies (if you have any insight into what exactly that is, I'd love to hear it ). According to our teacher and my friend who's a social worker at TDSB a B+ is very good. A's are reserved for exceptional work so the fact that your child does not read phonetically, even though she is sight reading beyond her level, would mean she still hasn't learned that grade 1 skill. She may get by without ever learning it and start getting A's in higher grades once it's not an issue. But, bottom line, B's are very good under this curriculum.

Isn't it weird how the grading of your beloved child makes you feel? I feel this mixture of protectiveness, competitiveness, insecurity, anger, inferiority, worry, pride ... It's awful."

[MamaDimstam]

Weird but so true! :

I keep telling myself it's not about me. But then the other day I read the blog of another local mama. She was having a major bragfest over having done all the right things as a parent because look at the proof, her kid got As and Bs and great comments. Whatever. I have to admit I didn't react well. Part of me felt defensive (because hey! I did all that great stuff too!), but then the more rational part of me kicked in and reminded me that all kids are different and ultimately we only save so much (in fact I believe very little) control over them, particularly as they get older.

My kids both read well and did it early. Is it because I taught them, or drilled flashcards into their impressionable brains or threatened them or bribed them or whatever? No. Both of them were simply the kind of kids who showed and interest early on, and maybe they were prewired to be curious about stories and reading. Also both of them are kind of control freaks (I want to do it MYSELF!) and independant. Us, as parents? We did the same stuff I think most parents do...we read together every day, did regular trips to the library, plus we read a lot ourselves and books are a very prominent part of our homes. I don't take credit. Yes, we helped. But those kids did it and should take the credit.

Sorry for the rant- it's a bit of a sore spot this week.

[RomanGoddess]

Originally Posted by momto l&a

Personally phonics do me no good. They are how I was taught to read. Love to read and voracious reader but forget the phonics,useless

My aunt who is dyslexic doesn't use phonics, she is totally by sight.

There are so many different ways a person learns that maybe it just isnt your dd's way. Shame on the teacher for giving her a lower grade for that though when your dd reads above her grade with no problems.

What happens when you come across a word that you do not know?

[NoHiddenFees]

Originally Posted by cmlp

What happens when you come across a word that you do not know?

Probably the same thing you do in most cases: chunk it out. As I said earlier, I believe that sight readers work down to chunking out words while phonetic readers work up. For example:

paraventricular Most accomplished readers would see/think para- -vent- (or ventricle depending on background) and -cular or -ar. This is true no matter how you learned to read, or your style. The key is you have to read to become an accomplished reader and too many children simply don't read anything that's not required.

Now, what if you don't recognize any chunks? Chances are the word is either foreign, or so obscure you'd have to look up the meaning in the dictionary anyway. Even sight readers can use a pronunciation key and most dictionaries break the works into chunks so you're ahead of the game next time.

[momto l&a]

Originally Posted by cmlp

What happens when you come across a word that you do not know?

That is pretty rare for me.

Often times if one keeps reading you will learn/be able to guess the meaning of the word.

I have been at times known to ask my dh though I usually go look it up in the dictionary or Google it.

And I also do what NOHIDDENFEES said.

[Leatherette]

I would not have her learning phonics if she is already reading 2 yrs above grade level. It will suck the fun out of reading for her. She should be reading at her level, lots, and working on higher level skills in comprehension.

I am a special education teacher, and a child learning to sight read on their own is a wonderful thing, an ideal. Phonics is for remediation, when kids aren't learning this way.

Why would someone want her to start sounding out words letter by letter, sound by sound, when she's got it? To me that seems like telling someone who can add numbers in their head to count on their fingers. Phonics isn't even the best way, because there are so many cases where phonics rules don't apply.

Best of luck,
L.

[crl]

Originally Posted by cmlp

What happens when you come across a word that you do not know?

I figure the meaning out from context, look it up or ask someone. I have noooo idea how to pronounce it and have to be careful not to say words I have only seen and not heard because I get laughed at! I can usually figure out how to say it from the pronounciation key in a dictionary. Better yet, I can get my computer to say it for me. . . .

Catherine

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by MamaDimstam

I keep telling myself it's not about me. But then the other day I read the blog of another local mama. She was having a major bragfest over having done all the right things as a parent because look at the proof, her kid got As and Bs and great comments. Whatever. I have to admit I didn't react well. Part of me felt defensive (because hey! I did all that great stuff too!), but then the more rational part of me kicked in and reminded me that all kids are different and ultimately we only save so much (in fact I believe very little) control over them, particularly as they get older.

I totally hear you. I am reading a book right now that talks about how invested the current generation of parents are in their children's education, and how it ultimately does no one any good. The parents get an ego boost from bragging about the relative "success" of their child in comparison to other children and other parents, partially because they don't have a life of their own, and partially due to the constantly nagging insecurity of the middle classes.

So, the parents who wished they could've been artists push for artistic kids. Parents who wished they'd gone to Harvard brag about their child's academic achievement. Parents who wished they'd won the spelling bee worry about their child's spelling achievement.

I think your daughter will be just fine, never mind that other mama.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

I am reading a book right now that talks about how invested the current generation of parents are in their children's education, and how it ultimately does no one any good. The parents get an ego boost from bragging about the relative "success" of their child in comparison to other children and other parents, partially because they don't have a life of their own, and partially due to the constantly nagging insecurity of the middle classes.

FSM that sounds like an interesting book. What's the title and who's the author?

[Roo_Online]

I'm a homeschooling mama, but I have had a similar experience. I was teaching phonics to my DD when suddenly she started reading everything in sight. She made a huge jump quickly. It seemed silly to continue with phonics lessons when she was reading entire chapter books on her own.

However, while her reading was great, her spelling was not. So, I used the phonics books to teach spelling rules. That worked out well, and it wasn't insulting to her or boring because she could see the benefit of learning phonics to improve her spelling.

Roo_Online

[flyingspaghettimama]

Originally Posted by uccomama

FSM that sounds like an interesting book. What's the title and who's the author?

The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids
By Madeline Levine, Ph.D.

And here is an interview with her. She is specifically speaking about families making over 120K/year, but I see this exact same phenomenon in my community, which is certainly not that affluent - more middle class to upper middle class.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...073100643.html