Phonics and learning to read - Page 2

[marycatlumom]

spell "phonics"

Phonics is definitely important when it comes to spelling. I also think it's quite important for reading, too. Of course some words cannot be sounded out so knowing certain words by sight is necessary. I think sight reading is fine, but I would make sure my child knows phonetic sounds so that she can continue to advance in reading and spelling throughout school and life.

[Maggie05]

Originally Posted by marycatlumom

Phonics is definitely important when it comes to spelling. I also think it's quite important for reading, too. Of course some words cannot be sounded out so knowing certain words by sight is necessary. I think sight reading is fine, but I would make sure my child knows phonetic sounds so that she can continue to advance in reading and spelling throughout school and life.

I agree with this.

[Thalia the Muse]

Actually, English spelling more frequently than not violates the rules of phonics. It's a very irregular language. Good spellers tend to be voracious readers who have just memorized what words look like.

[Mirzam]

Originally Posted by flyingspaghettimama

The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids
By Madeline Levine, Ph.D.

And here is an interview with her. She is specifically speaking about families making over 120K/year, but I see this exact same phenomenon in my community, which is certainly not that affluent - more middle class to upper middle class.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...073100643.html

Thanks, I will get the book and read the article.

[mom2e]

There has been great debate over whether to use whole language or phonics in teaching children how to read. Right now it seems that phonics is the way to go.

I think that some kids learn better using the whole language approach, while others learn better using phonics. Your child obviously favor whole language.

I think that educators lean towards phonics because that is what helps most kids, but that in no way means that it is the best approach for all children. I am sure your child is fine, and I wouldn't worry about it.

[Zach'smom]

Ds has used a combination of phonics and whole language. He knows all the sounds the letters make and can sound words out, and also knows many words by sight.

[mommy68]

I used HOP (hooked on phonics) with my two oldest DS and they both learned to read by
5 1/2 years old. It went up to about 2nd grade from what I remember but they only used it up until grade 1 because they got advanced real quick. Now it's in storage right now waiting for our 4 yr old to use it in the very near future.

[dinade]

flyingspaghettimama Loved that article. It was just what I needed. I've been worrying about my oldest and this article told me I need to chill out and let him make his own mistakes of course we make no where near that amount so we're in the clear. But anyway Thank you.

As for the whole language/phonics approach as a former educator I prefer the phonics approach cause my teacher friends who read using whole language were out there trying to teach phonics without knowing how. LOL It was quite funny actually. A book I used to help teach phonics was Johnny Can Read and it is an awesome approach. It's very technical and I didn't apply all principals but it does an awesome job. So check it out from the library if you can.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by Thalia the Muse

Actually, English spelling more frequently than not violates the rules of phonics. It's a very irregular language. Good spellers tend to be voracious readers who have just memorized what words look like.

This is me exactly. I am a whole word reader - learned to read pretty much on my own, am terrible at phonics. I am a visual-spatial learner, not an auditory one, so sounding out words doesn't actually help me that much in determining what they mean.

I had a 8th grade + vocabulary in 5th grade (they only measured up to 8th grade) and always get near perfect scores on any vocabulary exam. I never did flashcards or any type of workbooks for vocabulary, and I rarely looked words up in the dictionary. I just read every single book in the school library (plus loads more) and learned from context.*

My spelling however, is not great. I can only spell well by writing out the word and looking at it to see if it "matches" my visual memory. And I mess up vowels a lot - usually schwas.

I am also horrible at diagraming sentences, but my grammar is very accurate. I actually only really learned "proper grammar" when I was learning French in school. I am still unclear on what a gerund is or transitive vs intransitive verb thing.

However, my oldest seems to be an auditory learner (he is 3) so we are introducing the concept of phonics to him. This might work with his method of learning better than the way I did.

Siobhan

* I sucked at math and and many other subjects so I am not claiming to be a supergenius by any stretch. I just happened to be a very very good reader.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by Thalia the Muse

Actually, English spelling more frequently than not violates the rules of phonics. It's a very irregular language.

Yes. Hull and full don't have the same vowel sound. Neither do Mat and Sam. I was helping my son read, "Hop on Pop" yesterday and he had a hard time with the word "all" because it clearly doesn't make the same vowel sound as "cat". It sounds like the short vowel sound of the letter "o". The vowels alone don't seem to follow the basic rules that are described. This thread is of interest to me simply because we're in the throes of learning how to read right now and I'm watching this tedious sounding-out process and wondering how anyone manages it. I didn't learn to read with phonics instruction, but I'm not really sure how I learned how to read. I'm assuming a person has to memorize a zillion basic words and then their brain infers various rules from that. Anyway, I'm subbing to this thread to glean some wisdom from others who have BTDT.

[bdavis337]

Mhy 5 1/2 year old is a sight reader. He HATES sounding out words and doing phonics "drills". His kindy teacher says phonics is only important to the point that he can use it work through new, unfamiliar words, and of course for good spelling skills. So we go with that. He isn't letter graded yet, but until he hits middle school, I couldn't care less about what letter grades the school attaches to his name.

[RomanGoddess]

Originally Posted by Thalia the Muse

Actually, English spelling more frequently than not violates the rules of phonics. It's a very irregular language. Good spellers tend to be voracious readers who have just memorized what words look like.

English is not 100 percent phonetic but it is nowhere near being a non-phonetic language. English is not Chinese.

You need to be able to use ALL tools to be the best reader possible - phonics and more global approaches like whole language and whole word. A person who is unable to read phonetically is going to have greater difficulty with more complicated texts and a person who can only read phonetically is also going to be limited even with the most basic words such as "one", "once" and "eight".

Dismissing the fact that a child cannot read phonetically is unwise, as is dismissing the fact that a child can only read phonetically and is unable to distinguish whole words without sounding out each time.

[MOM2ANSLEY]

Originally Posted by Thalia the Muse

Actually, English spelling more frequently than not violates the rules of phonics. It's a very irregular language. Good spellers tend to be voracious readers who have just memorized what words look like.

ITA
Otherwise we would spell phonics- foniks ... Right?

[RomanGoddess]

Originally Posted by MOM2ANSLEY

ITA
Otherwise we would spell phonics- foniks ... Right?

No. Wrong. Phonics does not mean just that every letter represents a sound. It means that letters and letter combinations represent certain sounds. Phonics spelt as it is makes perfect sense using phonics.

And again, English might not be totally phonetic. But it is also not Chinese or some other completely pictoral written language. A child who learns to "read" without being taught to use phonics as a tool is being shortchanged in the long run.

[kewb]

I am coming in late on this but I do remember a decade ago that my BIL was diagonosed with a learning disability. I don't remember what it was but it involved being unable to read phonetically.

[LeftField]

Originally Posted by cmlp

No. Wrong. Phonics does not mean just that every letter represents a sound. It means that letters and letter combinations represent certain sounds. Phonics spelt as it is makes perfect sense using phonics.

And again, English might not be totally phonetic. But it is also not Chinese or some other completely pictoral written language. A child who learns to "read" without being taught to use phonics as a tool is being shortchanged in the long run.

In all fairness, as we're going through this with my 5 year old right now...I will concede that the loose rules that exist are helpful reminders of what to do. But when my son tries to pronounce "ball" like "cat" instead of "on" and when he doesn't understand why the silent e does not make the vowel "say its name" in love, glove, and dove, then he gets slightly confused. Luckily, he's very optimistic. I'm finding that every time I say a phonetic rule, I have to say, "most of the time" or add exceptions. I should probably start a new thread about this.

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by Leatherette

I would not have her learning phonics if she is already reading 2 yrs above grade level. It will suck the fun out of reading for her. She should be reading at her level, lots, and working on higher level skills in comprehension.

I am a special education teacher, and a child learning to sight read on their own is a wonderful thing, an ideal. Phonics is for remediation, when kids aren't learning this way.

Why would someone want her to start sounding out words letter by letter, sound by sound, when she's got it? To me that seems like telling someone who can add numbers in their head to count on their fingers. Phonics isn't even the best way, because there are so many cases where phonics rules don't apply.

Best of luck,
L.

I could not agree more.

I was an early (pre-K) reader and I can still vividly recall how horribly freaking boring it was to learn phonics in school. I LOVED school, but I hated phonics. Gah!!!!!