Critique this scenario, please - Page 8

[Attila the Honey]

Originally Posted by chfriend

Taking something away from a baby who could hurt themselves might be appropriate, although we just ask first. This most often works. If it's a kid who understands and is not in imminent danger, I'll continue the conversation until I convince the kid that I need the item because it's dangerous. Since I only do this when it's actually dangerous, they believe me.

Cheese in not dangerous. If the 1.5 year old had grabbed the cheese and stuffed it in her mouth, it would not be appropriate. It is also not appropriate for me to do the same thing in her stead. So, yes, I believe grabbing something out of the hand of someone, especially someone smaller than me, to get something they have that I want is snatching. I think modelling that fosters lousy play and stinky behavior. I do not believe that it fosters generousity.

The solution seems so obvious, I don't understand the discussion. Is there a world-wide cheese shortage? When my second got big enough to want the samples too, I accepted that I know had double the number of children...therefore, I needed double the samples.

It took me one or two times of dd2 being on solids to get this. But dd2 is pretty good at letting you know what she needs, so I caught on pretty quick.

I feel this is really degenerating into semantics. I didn't say grabbed, just like I don't think OP said snatched. I used the word take, which to me isn't negative or positive, while 'grabbed' and 'snatched' connotates rudely and abruptly taking something.

I agree with you that it's not ok to grab something away from someone else. i wouldn't do that. I wouldn't yank, snatch, wrench, grapple, snap up, or seize, either. But I WOULD reach over and calmly take it if I asked for it and it wasn't given.

I realize a piece of cheese isn't dangerous, but note I said I also would take something that is 'not allowed'. If my dd had my valuable antique knick knack from my great great grandmother I'd most likely say, "I am concerned that will get broken if we carry it around, can I have it?" If she didn't give it to me I would reach over and calmly take it from her. I wouldn't yank, I wouldn't yell, I wouldn't do anything more than that and then deal with the fall out in whatever manner I could. ("I know you are really upset, maybe there is something else you can play with?")

[the_lissa]

Yes, but what do you do when you have two children with two different needs?

Consensual living appeals to me, but what do you do when two people have opposing desires?

[The4OfUs]

I have to stop reading this thread, because I'm starting to agree with every post.

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

Yes, but what do you do when you have two children with two different needs?

Consensual living appeals to me, but what do you do when two people have opposing desires?

You find a mutually agreeable solution.

[GoodWillHunter]

"Hey, looks like we have two hungry kids and one piece of cheese - do you want to split it in half, dc1, or do you need me to help?"

excellent suggestion, Atilla.

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

You find a mutually agreeable solution.

and what would one be in this case?

[chfriend]

I think if a child "reached over and tore off a piece" of cheese from another child, I would call it snatching. Same if I did it.

In the example here, the cheese was allowed....so I don't understand the other examples. In fact, it was a special part of a trip to the store.

In the case of the antique, I'd guard the antique with my hands and ask for it back, explaining why until I got it. I'd be unwilling to grab it lest I injure the antique. I would also be really irritated..that I was in the situation to begin with...frick frackin antiques!

I don't remove, snatch, steal, plunder, confiscate, appropriate, grab, swipe or otherwise take by force things that belong to my children, unless there is an imminent and serious danger to themselves or others. I have in moments of slow-wittedness on my part. In retrospect, there is always a better way.

Here....just ask for another piece of cheese.

As in, "Oh dd, you'd like one too? Sure! Excuse me, friendly deli worker. Could I have another piece of your delicious cheese for my daughter? Thank you so much!"

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

and what would one be in this case?

Most likely, asking the deli worker for another piece of cheese.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

Yes, but what do you do when you have two children with two different needs?

Consensual living appeals to me, but what do you do when two people have opposing desires?

Everyone is welcome to explore consensual living at the CL tribe, CL web site or CL yahoogroup. We discuss living consensually with children, with our families, and with our community. Toddler issues, sibling issues, partner issues, and in-law issues are common topics, including "leaving the park", toothbrushing, carseats, bedtimes, homework, sweets, tv, safety, chores, medical issues, etc. with a focus on creating win-win solutions. The key issue with seemingly conflicting needs is to identify the underlying needs and create solutions which address those. There are hundreds of examples discussed at the yahoogroup.

Here are the links:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=493985
(The tribe is not as active as the yahoo list.)

http://www.consensual-living.com/
The web site has several articles about Creating the Climate for Consensual Living and "have to" issues.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Consen...guid=140240070
Most discussions about CL are at the yahoogroup. Since we have over 400 members, there are many experiences shared.


Pat

[Attila the Honey]

Originally Posted by sunnysideup

Most likely, asking the deli worker for another piece of cheese.

I don't really have a problem with that "ask for another piece of cheese" solution, just like I don't have a problem with the 'enforced sharing' solution, both seem fine to me. But, for the sake of argument, what do you do if the deli worker says, "Sorry, cheese is for kids 2 and up only." or "Sorry, one slice per family." or the deli worker goes in the back and doesn't come out for 10 minutes and there is no one to get another slice of cheese from?

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable opening a package in the store before it's paid for (gosh, never know when that ATM card won't swipe.. that would be just my luck!) and I don't see having to pick out a snack and go to the front and wait in line and buy a snack as a mutally agreeable solution. As the mom, that solution would be a serious pain in my butt, and my happiness matters too.

[the_lissa]

Originally Posted by Attila the Honey

I don't really have a problem with that "ask for another piece of cheese" solution, just like I don't have a problem with the 'enforced sharing' solution, both seem fine to me. But, for the sake of argument, what do you do if the deli worker says, "Sorry, cheese is for kids 2 and up only." or "Sorry, one slice per family." or the deli worker goes in the back and doesn't come out for 10 minutes and there is no one to get another slice of cheese from?

I wonder the same thnig.

Thanks for te links pat. I joined the yahoo group.

[sunnysideup]

I think there are many possible mutually agreeable solutions in this situation. There are usually lots of samples available at our grocery store, but I also don't have a problem opening something before I pay for it, or I might have a snack in my purse. I don't really see the point in going through all of the possibilities--there are so many options that may or may not work in any given situation.

[chfriend]

You just remember to ask at the time. If you go to a store with samples it becomes second nature. Also, as I said, dd1 always speaks up for dd2 in these situations.

As for the other times. First, I'd cross that bridge when I come to it. I'd be unlikely to frequent a store that overrode my decisions about what my kids can and can't eat or had no one at the deli counter for 10 minutes at a time.

That scenario sounds like borrowing trouble. What if the roof crashed in before you could get the words out? What if the cheese caught fire? You have to have enough faith in yourself that you'll keep thinking and requesting until you reach a solution.

I don't id as CL or TCS or anything else. I just live with these people and work to get along.

[georgia]

Most likely, asking the deli worker for another piece of cheese.

Thank you!

[Attila the Honey]

Originally Posted by chfriend

You just remember to ask at the time. If you go to a store with samples it becomes second nature. Also, as I said, dd1 always speaks up for dd2 in these situations.

As for the other times. First, I'd cross that bridge when I come to it. I'd be unlikely to frequent a store that overrode my decisions about what my kids can and can't eat or had no one at the deli counter for 10 minutes at a time.

That scenario sounds like borrowing trouble. What if the roof crashed in before you could get the words out? What if the cheese caught fire? You have to have enough faith in yourself that you'll keep thinking and requesting until you reach a solution.

I don't id as CL or TCS or anything else. I just live with these people and work to get along.

point taken.

But I think it's as conceivable that maybe you couldn't get another piece of cheese as it is to think that a deli worker would see 2 kids and only give one piece! Both scenarios are to me, and I am honestly curious what would be the thing to do if 2 slices of cheese weren't an option and you didn't believe in 'enforced sharing'.

[chfriend]

ask dd1 if she was willing to share her cheese. if the answer is no and there is no more free cheese, get a package of cheese, bust into it, let the baby eat some and pay for it on the way out.

i've never had a sample-giver begrudge the second child a piece. seems like it kind of defeats the purpose of the sampling. and the kids in our family choose the cheese, so it behooves the sample-giver to interest the kids in their cheese!

[georgia]

Honestly, I do my very best to avoid taking everyone to the grocery store :.

The only issue I have with *meeting everyone's needs* and *working toward mutually agreeable solutions* in practice (while I wholeheartedly think it's a fabulous concept in theory) if I were to put myself and my three dc in this situation is that *for us right now* my children each seem to be at ages where they're not so into working things out so everyone's happy And then someone has to go to the bathroom. Now. Two year old doesn't care that 7 yo wants the whole piece--she wants it NOW, 4 yr. old is crying he wants to get out and walk (and he's not a stay-right-by-mama guy) so that I wait for the deli worker to return to ask for another piece...

Sometimes, it's really hard.

But I love that we can hash it out to pick out the essence of what's perhaps underneath the OP's original concerns And I also like the idea that we all assume we're doing the very best we can at the moment, and if we're not, we're working on getting the tools to get us there.



**and I'm just talking about right now, this week, at this moment---no way am I going to a grocery store because I have needs, too!

[Niamh]

I just read this entire thread.

Now I'm going to go eat some cheese. Which I will share with my daughter if she likes.

[chfriend]

Originally Posted by Niamh

I just read this entire thread.

Now I'm going to go eat some cheese. Which I will share with my daughter if she likes.

Georgia....a trip to the grocery store by myself feels like a vacation! More power to you for figuring out how to do it.

[georgia]

It's just around now where all of mine are totally happy at home w/their daddy while I run to the grocery store ! Sometimes, I even will read a magazine t's really weird how naked I feel without my sling on--no one on my hip--or anyone to explain to the cashier the multitude of stains on my shirt And I eat all the cheese and trashy cookies I want

Ahem. Excuse me. Back on topic