Critique this scenario, please - Page 9

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by chfriend

Georgia....a trip to the grocery store by myself feels like a vacation! More power to you for figuring out how to do it.

Actually, I have "dates" (without children) with my IRL mothering friend AT the grocery store. It is better than a vacation or shopping alone.


Pat

[heartmama]

When ds was younger our local grocery store had free childcare (only for kids between 3-7yrs, similar to IKEA). There was a glass room in one part of the store. A tv screen suspended over each aisle played video from camera's in the playroom. So you could shop and watch your child playing.

Now that was heaven. Ds loved going in there to once a week.

[georgia]

Oh, that is such a fabulous idea I tend to run into the same mamas at our co-op---and then we end up staying a half hour longer in the store than I intended chatting in the produce aisle---I might was well make it official actually plan it w/them!

I'm really new to this whole going-out-without-little-ones thing. Never thought I'd get to this strange new place. Might as well hang out

[famousmockngbrd]

Yeah, that thing I said about it being disempowering to acknowledge someone's sadness/anger about something and then tell them they have to do it anyway - that was stupid. I think what I meant was more along the lines of, acknowledging someone's sadness/anger about something and then *making* them do it. But still, the thing that is disempowering about it is the "making them do it" part, not the "acknowledging their feelings" part. So, never mind. Sometimes I type first and think later.

Yooper - I never wanted to imply that your opinion doesn't count or you're "not a real mother". I was mother to one child for almost 3 years and it sure felt like mothering to me. All I meant was that it's harder, logistically, to coordinate multiple kids. It's probably harder to get 6 kids on the same page than 2 kids - it doesn't mean I'm less of a mother than the 6 kids lady.

Last thing - about the cheese. The reason I didn't ask the deli worker for another piece of cheese is because I felt like that would have seemed greedy. It really was a very big piece she gave DS - maybe she intended it to be for both kids, I don't know, she didn't say so. I'm not saying that was a great reason, but it is the reason nonetheless. Then, when DS didn't want to share with DD, *that* became the issue I was focused on, not the issue of DD having cheese or not. It was more important that DS share with his sister than I get her more cheese. Again, not saying that's a great reason but that's what happened.

I do tend to focus on individual instances rather than the big picture. So I do get caught up in the mindset of not being able to let anything slide because if I let him keep the cheese now, he'll think he never has to share anything, ever again! I do not like the idea of forced sharing but sometimes I feel like if I *don't* "enforce" it, it won't be learned. I like modelling behavior, I agree with the principle but I do also think kids need to be actively guided. To me modelling is a passive tool, which there is a place for definitely, but kids also need direct instruction, at least my kids do.

[thismama]

Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd

The reason I didn't ask the deli worker for another piece of cheese is because I felt like that would have seemed greedy. It really was a very big piece she gave DS - maybe she intended it to be for both kids, I don't know, she didn't say so. I'm not saying that was a great reason, but it is the reason nonetheless.

I personally think that is a perfectly good reason not to ask for more cheese.

[PatchyMama]

Around here direct instruction to share is a sure fire way to invoke absolutely no sharing at all LOL. They do much better if i voice things to them in other ways.... like "Oh hey Kyla, willow seems to really want a piece of your cheese" .... without a directive from me she is almost always happy to offer up the piece of cheese entirely on her own. I always attributed this to the fact that we dont really force sharing and its not forced at her preschool either. If one kid wants to play with a certain toy ALL day they are allowed to.... they quickly seem to learn that its nicer to share because it sucks to want to play with something and not be able to because someone isn't sharing.

Thats not to say that my girls ALWAYS share ... they have their days... but its usually because of other issues going on (hungry, tired, annoyed, etc)... not because they are selfish. I have just never made it to be an issue other than modelling it. Maybe its how its modeled? I always try to use vocalize things..... like if DD came up to me and asked me for something I had I would usually say "sure kyla, I would love to share a piece of my orange with you".

As for the cheese..... if she gave it to you directly i would have automatically just split it into 2 because I know that both of my girls would have wanted it... they love cheese. If she gave it directly to him I would have asked for another one. If she wanted it split she should have given it to you directly... her fault. AFter it was said and I done if DD didnt want to share I would have just offered DD another snack... i usually keep them in my purse when we shop anyway.

[famousmockngbrd]

Originally Posted by thismama

I personally think that is a perfectly good reason not to ask for more cheese.

Thanks. I needed to hear that. The problem I have with it is that I feel like I attached more importance to potentially offending a stranger than I did to DS's feelings. I know sometimes that is warranted but I'm not sure it was in this case.

[famousmockngbrd]

Originally Posted by PatchyMama

They do much better if i voice things to them in other ways.... like "Oh hey Kyla, willow seems to really want a piece of your cheese" ....

ITA with this and in fact that was the first thing I said to DS. His response was pretty much, "tough luck for her."

[PatchyMama]

Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd

ITA with this and in fact that was the first thing I said to DS. His response was pretty much, "tough luck for her."

: well at least he is honest

[famousmockngbrd]

Yeah, he's not one for holding back.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I’ve read a bit of this thread but not all so sorry if this was already brought up.

Our solution to DC not wanting to share is that she shouldn’t use (or eat) the thing in front of anyone with whom she doesn’t want to share. In the case of the deli cheese I think I probably would have made DC share ~ probably exactly like you did and felt a little bad about it as well. If I wanted her to have the choice to share or not, I might have asked her to wrap it up for later and then gone to find something in the store that both kids could share.

But, what I most likely would have done is gotten the deli worker involved. As DC gets older it helps so much to let her see me clarify rules or intentions of others if I’ve become the middle man. I probably would have just asked the deli worker if she/he gave the cheese to just DC or for both to share. Most likely DC would be told that it was for both children or your other DC would have also been given a piece. I can't tell you how helpful this has been lately when I'm trying to enforce the rules or expectations of others with DC.

I also wanted to agree with the poster who said that another good choice might be to stay out of the situation if DC was actually sharing…even if it was a tiny piece. Maybe DC might have continued to give little pieces and it would have become a fun way to share. I must admit this is very difficult for me to do. (I don’t have two kids but I work at a coop nursery school and staying out of what I perceive to be an unfair solution is SO, so hard).

[sunnysideup]

Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd

I like modelling behavior, I agree with the principle but I do also think kids need to be actively guided. To me modelling is a passive tool, which there is a place for definitely, but kids also need direct instruction, at least my kids do.

I agree that kids need more than modeling. I think modeling is a very important part of learning, but people also need guidance and instruction. I wouldn't argue that point. But, I don't think you can teach generosity by forcing it. I don't think children that have been routinely forced to share learn the value of sharing. It just makes for a lot of sibling resentment, ime.

I seems like some posters are suggesting that you either force your kids to share or you let them be selfish jerks. Which seems, to me, directly in opposition with the description of GD in the forum guidlines-- "Effective discipline is based on loving guidance. It is based on the belief that children are born innately good and that our role as parents is to nurture their spirits as they learn about limits and boundaries, rather than to curb their tendencies toward wrongdoing. Effective discipline presumes that children have reasons for their behavior and that cooperation can be engaged to solve shared problems."

[**guest**]

i read through about 10 initial responses, so maybe what i am going to say was covered later, but what was Maddie's reaction?

we have this situation occur often -- Ada (4.5) has a piece of cheese, and Max (2) wants it. i might say 'Max wants some too', or she might notice it herself, if he 'asks' her himself. then it is likely that Ada will give him a tiny bit. and he will be happy about it, and ask for more. and she will give him a tiny bit again. and again. and againg. and both are happy. she IS sharing. both are having fun. i think she is too young to know that sharing half and half is more 'fair', kwim?

[famousmockngbrd]

Yes, that is a great suggestion and next time I will give them more of a chance to sort it out themselves. It's true, he *was* sharing, just not according to my standards. I didn't even think of that at the time.

Well, live and learn - thanks again everyone, for a great discussion.

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by famousmockngbrd

Yes, that is a great suggestion and next time I will give them more of a chance to sort it out themselves. It's true, he *was* sharing, just not according to my standards. I didn't even think of that at the time.

Well, live and learn - thanks again everyone, for a great discussion.

Thank you! I have learned a lot from this discussion