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About to throw in the towel  

post #1 of 59
Thread Starter 
I really could use some advice here.

I am about to put Desta in school. (She is twelve, adopted from Ethiopia, and has been with us almost 7 months.) I require very little from her in terms of schoolwork at this point. She does phonics, language arts, reading, and math every day. Twice a week she does social studies. Right now our focus is on learning to read, so we do a lot of extra me-reading-to-her and her-reading-to-me for fun. She gets up in the morning, does her chores, does her schoolwork, and then is free for the rest of the day. It takes her approximately 3 hours to get up, get herself ready for the day, do her chores, and do her schoolwork. She's usually done by 10:30.

She acts like I am KILLING her when I tell her to do her work. She sighs these dramatic sighs, stares blankly into space, holds her head in her hands, gets stony silent, etc. It's really kind-of ridiculous. I am right there with her most of the time she's doing her schoolwork. I help her out. I don't just give it to her and run off. But she has such an atrocious attitude about it that it's ruining our mornings and, frankly, I don't need that.

I had a talk with her about it today. I asked her whether the work is too hard (no). I asked her whether it is too easy (no). I asked her whether she feels like I don't help her enough (no). When I said, "Then I really don't understand what the problem is and I don't know what to do to make it better," she said, "Sometimes I get angry" and gave me an example of when I asked her to write a short friendly letter (for language arts) where she was to say what her favorite sport was and whether she liked crocheting or knitting better. Apparently she was angry because she likes them both equally and didn't want to have to choose one (which she didn't, she wrote that she liked both knitting and crocheting, which was fine). Other than that she could not or would not explain why she gets angry and she could not or would not tell me what I could do to make doing her schoolwork a better experience for her. We have had this discussion several times in the last four months and nothing ever gets better.

I am an unschooler at heart. I plan to unschool Ramona (4) and Efram (3) and I had planned that for Desta, too, but dh and I have come to realize that Desta is not ready for that much freedom at this time. She spent almost 5 years in an orphanage and does not know how to structure her own time. She is really struggling with taking responsibility for even the most basic things, such as brushing her hair every day or putting her laundry in the hamper on a regular basis. We tried a few months of just letting her be, letting her play, etc., but things deteriorated very rapidly in terms of her behavior and the harmony in our family. When I structure her mornings for her, she does much better throughout the rest of the day. Like I said, I really am an unschooler, but that this point in time unschooling is not an option for her. I really hate "making" her do work, but I do feel she needs to learn to read and do basic math and I feel like I need something to occupy some part of her day so she's not causing trouble the way she was before. A few months ago she did ask me to give her schoolwork because she didn't like not having any. She was in grade 3 in Ethiopia but honestly, she is not even close to an American "third grade level" in her skills or abstract thinking abilities. If anyone has some ideas or strategies for making things run more smoothly, I would really appreciate it.

Btw, we have recently started seeing a counselor, and the schoolwork issue is one that I have brought up with the counselor, but they are still in the assessment phase so we haven't gotten to the "here are some strategies" phase yet. Also, I have talked to Desta about doing schoolwork in the afternoon (no), doing one week's worth of a subject each day (no), having Daddy do the work with her in the evenings (no). I feel tapped out of ideas. I don't like Ramona and Efram having to live with the grouchiness and stress.

I honestly think it comes down to Desta 1) not wanting to put forth the effort to do the work and 2) feeling that she is unfairly singled out to do things that Efram and Ramona don't have to. She complains frequently and loudly that THEY don't have to do schoolwork and THEY don't have to do chores like unloading the dishwasher. She really seems to feel that she is getting the shaft because she is older and she's jealous of them for being able to be with us as young kids, which she didn't get. She complains about the responsibilities of being 12 but certainly doesn't want to give up the privileges.

I understand that, I really do, but the fact is that she is 12. She can reach the dish shelves, so she has the job of putting the dishes away. She is 12. She needs to know how to read and needs a basic education. I understand the "it's not fair," but I don't really buy it.

I don't know, I guess this post has gotten way beyond the scope of the homeschooling forum, and for that I apologize. I'm just so frustrated and I am really starting to doubt my ability to parent this girl. What she seems to need is so much different than how I parent Ramona and Efram.

Namaste!
post #2 of 59
My instinct is she's just being 12

Having taught that age, she sounds, um, very normal.

Girls from 11 to 13 or so are just "impossible" by nature. (boys do the same thing- but later....)

I would just stay absolutely cheerful and stick with what you're doing.



-Angela
post #3 of 59
I was going to say the same thing-- she's 12. I'm sure that her background is compounding the issues, but her hormones are not helping any. The fact that she's comfortable enough to be herself around you is a testament to your parenting and the love she is getting.

The dishes-- I have a 6yo so of course there are some differences here. But she is naturally kinda sloppy and lazy (I say that with lots of love) and I am starting to expect a lot more of her. I want her to take pride in doing things herself. For one, she puts the dishes away. She can't reach the shelves yet, so she is asked to neatly stack the dishes on the counter below the shelf where it belongs. She also puts the silverware away. I'm thinking maybe in your house you can have Efram stack the dishes on the counter, Ramona put the silverware away, and Desta can put the dishes from the counters to the shelves and cabinets.

My dd Abi is kinda free spirited by nature, and that often means not taking care of herself well (not wanting to take the time), and not wanting to put her clothes in the hamper. I will find them flung over the furniture instead. Last week I put her totally in charge of her laundry. I bought her a hamper (I usually shared one with her and her sister) and she has to wash clothes twice a week. I help her with the soap, she does the rest. Last week she was really proud of her new responsibility. She said she was growing up. On the other hand she also sighed when she was folding clothes and said, "This is a lot of work!" With the hair brushing-- I just keep her in a short cut if she starts to refuse to care for it. I mean, she's 6 so I still shampoo it and stuff, but she is asked to brush it every morning and if she refuses, or if she makes too much fuss in the bathtube about shampooing it, I suggest that we maybe cut it short so it's easier. She then agreed to doing this all on her own a few mos ago, and said short hair was better and she doesn't ever want long hair again. So maybe that can be something with Desta-- that if she doesn't want to care for her hair, maybe you can help her decide on a nice short style.

Can you find some incentive to the reading? Is there some reward that she can have that would involve her new reading skill? Maybe if she tries hard with reading lessons all week you can take her out to eat, just you and her, and she can read the menu and order off it all by herself. Or cooking something from a recipe book. Show her that reading is power.

Good luck! I have been reading Desta's blog for many months and am so happy she's finally in your family! Is there still going to be an article sometime?
post #4 of 59
I have a friend who grew up in a Mexican orphanage.

I think there is a lot going on that you need to be aware of. Are you in any type of support group with other families who have adopted older children? They have detachment issues and your most important priority is to insure attachment in your family. I think 7 months is a small time compared with the rest of her life.

She is probably used to being around children and may not even understand what having a parent is like.

Breathe, breathe, breathe. She is not like a normal 12 year old and you need to allow her that. Has she gone through any type of grieving phase yet?

I would personally look at her skills and approach them more like I would with the 6 year old. She needs to learn all new life skills to succeed. Does she know what you would like her to learn? How much say so does she have in this?

She probably had a lot of leadership in her previous life and now she has had to relinquish all that to new parents in a new country. I would think that would be really hard. Does she have a counselor to talk with?

What about cultural and language barriers? Did she grow up speaking English? Did she grow up with chores? Did she have her own things or own identity? Did she know any of her relatives? What type of people were they?

I actually might agree with her that it is unfair that the younger children don't have to do all that she does. If you are going to have her do chores you need to do them with her or do them all together. She isn't a 12 year old that has been living in your house since she has been born.

I hope your still reading. I've had some very long talks with the above friend. The transition was really hard for her other two siblings. Her mom had to place one in a foster home and another ran away. But, she belongs to a family of children who are all different colors and were adopted from all over the world.

Your daughter needs a lot of love right now. I hope you aren't offended about any of the things I said.
post #5 of 59
I just checked out your pictures! They are the cutest bunch.
post #6 of 59
Thread Starter 
T answer a few of the questions:

1. No, we will not be doing the article because Desta didn't want to. Not because she doesn't want people to know she has HIV, but because she doesn't like to be noticed as different (namely, form Ethiopia and with an accent). I completely understand that.

2. I am not in a bricks-and-mortar support group but there are two online support groups that I am part of. I'm also part of an Ethiopia adoptive families group, and some of them have adopted older kids (that's an in-person, not an online, group).

3. I think she knows what I want her to learn. We have talked about it. Basically we are just learning English and math at this point. Honestly, she doesn't have a lot of say in it, because I think it is imperative that she learn these things, but I did let her help me choose the material she would use and she doesn't seem to have any complaints about them. She especially likes her phonics and math workbooks. We have also talked about the things that she needs to be able to do as part of the family, such as putting her dirty clothes in the hamper and making sure her shoes are put away and putting away the things she uses in the kitchen after she makes a snack. I have approached these things from a "this is one of the ways we can all help to keep the household running smoothly" perspective. Again, she doesn't have a lot of say in that, because I think that these things are basic life skills. I expect many of the same things from my younger kids.

4. Yes, she has a counselor.

5. Yes, there are language barriers, although her English is pretty good at this point. Her receptive skills are better than her expressive skills. As far as cultural barriers, school is much more highly prized in Ethiopia than it is by kids here, and kids in Ethiopia are expected to work, either at a job or at home. She did have chores, both with her family and in the orphanage. She did have some personal possessions in the orphanage, and she was one of the favorites, so that was probably a big part of her identity there. Yes, she knew her family. They were middle-class.

I appreciate all of what has been said so far by everyone. The only thing that I disagree with is that her chores might be unfair. We have a small whiteboard with all the kids' chores listed. We designate a 1/2 hour in the morning during which the kids and I complete our chores. I don't do her chores with her because I am doing my own chores then. So, she is kind-of working alone, but we are all working together on our own chores, and we are all within speaking distance of one another. I usually put on music and we all work together. The younger kids definitely have useful and not just token chores to do.

Thanks again, and please keep the ideas coming.

Namaste!
post #7 of 59
Does she want to go to school or has she asked?
Would there be good schooling options given her delays?

Those are key questions that need to be entertained first.

I agree she may need more structure than is natural for you, but she may really need it. My overall sense is that given her age and her history, this may just be a rocky time and problems needs to be worked through rather than avoided. It is good that you are in counseling together. Is there anything she enjoys learning or doing? Is there a way to start from that and build into more structured academics? How does she do with the computer?
post #8 of 59
Not in homeschooling forum but just wanted to give an extra opinion. I think in this case it *may* be beneficial for her to go to public school : . I'm guessing that she isn't used to structure, set timelines, deadlines, and american school in general. I do think it may be beneficial to have her have to respond to a third person who will hold her responsible for her actions and consequences and may take some pressure off of you. I think you are right when you say she isn't used to the freedom and options that homeschooling provides. Maybe once she realizes that she needs to get up at a certain time, catch the bus, and set lesson times she will change her time and be begging to go back. On the other hand she may thrive with a more structured setting. Could you have a week or two week test period? Where she needs to stick it out and then at the end she can either continue school or go back to homeschooling. But if she goes back to homeschooling she needs to not complain and be more proactive about it. Would she be in a traditional 12 year old classroom or how would they accomodate her learning level? Its a tough spot so hopefully you, your DH, and Desta can find some method that will work. Goo dluck.
post #9 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roar View Post
Does she want to go to school or has she asked?
She says she does not want to go to school because she likes being with us and she likes having the amount of time she has to play. She was horrified to find out how much time the schooled kids are in school and how much homework her schooled friends have.

Quote:
Would there be good schooling options given her delays?
No, unfortunately not. We live in the worst school district in the state, and, thanks to No Child Given What They Really Need, the district can only back her up two years in language arts and math. So she would be expected to complete 5th grade work in those subjects. We can't afford to send her to private school.

Quote:
I think in this case it *may* be beneficial for her to go to public school . I'm guessing that she isn't used to structure, set timelines, deadlines, and american school in general. I do think it may be beneficial to have her have to respond to a third person who will hold her responsible for her actions and consequences and may take some pressure off of you.
I pretty much agree with you.

Namaste!
post #10 of 59
Unfortunately it sounds like there simply isn't a good school option. What about a "tutor"? Someone else to be the "bad guy" for awhile.

-Angela
post #11 of 59
Thread Starter 
Yeah, we have considered a tutor. I don't know how we would pay for it, but it's definitely something we are open to. The other thing I have looked into is a cyber charter school, because even though she is at home she has a teacher she is responsible to (and they require about FIVE HOURS of work a day), but then again we run up against the state standards thing. When I mentioned to them that she would fail 5th grade math and language arts, they were kinda like "Yeah ... but we have to meet those standards."

Namaste!
post #12 of 59
I'm just tossing out ideas here... but considering her background, I wonder if some sort of structured decision-making on her part would be helpful. I guess I've gotten the idea that making her own choices isn't someting she's had a lot of experience with, and she's not so good at taking responsibility for herself in this way, perhaps because she's never had the opportunity. So instead of assigning her 3 pages in her workbook, you could create a "menu" for her schoolwork, and she would have to choose one of the listed activities in each of these areas, or something like that. I don't think remediating her academic skills is the most important thing right now - I think it's more important that she gains the skills she needs in order to learn those things. You can lead a horse to water, but...

So for reading, maybe she could either read a book to a sibling, or play 2 rounds of a reading game with you, or do 3 pages in her workbook... her choice. At least that would give her some ownership...

dar
post #13 of 59
Thread Starter 
I have considered giving her a schedule of what needs to be done and telling her that as long as it is done by Friday, I don't care when she does it. I haven't tried that yet for two reasons: one is that she does not really work independently in anything yet and I don't necessarily want to be called upon to assist her at random times (because she is famous in our house for doing things like waiting until I am elbow deep in cooking to say, "Momma, will you play a game with me?" or waiting until I have just climbed into the bathtub to say, "Momma, will you braid my hair?") and also because she hasn't even mastered what I am doing yet, so I am not sure she is ready for that type of responsibility yet.

What I do do is write a list on the whiteboard for her of what must be done for the day. I list what she needs to do in terms of personal care (shower, brush hair, brush teeth, use deodorant, take meds, etc.), what needs to be done in terms of chores, and what needs to be done in terms of schoolwork. I started doing this because she wasn't even taking care of her personal hygiene. Even with these lists, she still comes to me to ask what needs to be done next, or she will complete something on the list and then just kind of wander off.

I hadn't thought of giving her a choice in terms of assignments, but that is certainly an idea to consider. Thanks, Dar.

Namaste!
post #14 of 59
I don't know if this has already been said, but if you did send her to public school you'd probably still get the same attitude about homework (which it would be your job to make her do) and then you'd have less "happy family" time together to boot.
post #15 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamabohl View Post
I don't know if this has already been said, but if you did send her to public school you'd probably still get the same attitude about homework (which it would be your job to make her do) and then you'd have less "happy family" time together to boot.
Yes, that is definitely something I have considered. I am not willing to spend hours and hours helping with homework. If I sent her to school, she would probably be on her own in terms of homework unless she came to me and politely asked for help and worked pleasantly with me to complete it.

Namaste!
post #16 of 59
One thing to keep in mind is that if you send her to school, she's going to spend the bulk of her day there, then come home with homework. Given that they'll expect her to perform far above her level, it will likely be a lot of homework, and given your description of the quality of the local PS, much of the remediation will fall to you. Which will mean that she will simply have to spend all day in school, on top of the struggles you're already dealing with.
post #17 of 59
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravin View Post
Which will mean that she will simply have to spend all day in school, on top of the struggles you're already dealing with.
Yeah, I know. But at least I won't be living with her bad attitude all day. :

Namaste!
post #18 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmamama View Post
Yeah, I know. But at least I won't be living with her bad attitude all day. :
Try not to think of it as *her* attitude. Try to think of it as a case of the 12-year-olds that has taken over this sweet child Every time she's being absolutely impossible, just say to yourself- MY, she is feeling very *12* today. Sometimes it helps.

Really - it's the age. I'll warn you about the next piece if it hasn't started yet- my mom put it well- at that age girls either get MAD or SAD. And the whole world will make them angry or sad. And they will yell or cry at the drop of a hat.

hang in there!

-Angela
post #19 of 59
I have to agree with the PPs who said that she's being 12 and with BeachBums about psychological issues complicating things. I'm guessing you haven't even started to touch those, even with a counselor and lots of love. I can't tell you what's right for you, but I would approach it by first allowing her more of a transitional time to just be in this culture and family without expectations beyond kindness, and practice a kind of unconditional acceptance of her as a person. It must be very stressful for her that you are clearly unhappy with her resistance and that your expectations are in conflict with her internal drive for autonomy and inner authenticity. Seven months is a really short period of time to have expected her to change everything about how she is in the world and approaches it. It may not seem like a big thing to you to require these "small" things of her, but I assure you that to her it is. I'm just as equally sure that this is a felt thing for her and that she couldn't explain it to you no matter how hard she tried. So my advice here is to ease up.

I also understand that she eventually needs to learn how to be self-sufficient in this culture and that you don't believe unschooling will work with her, and I'm not contesting that. Maybe, though, there's a way to compromise. Perhaps you could try just asking her to "be with" the materials -- the reading, the math -- for a certain amount of time every day, being available to answer questions, but not having expectations in term of quality or quantity of work. Get her involved in practical/intuitive ways of learning math such as baking or buying things at the store. Does she have her own allowance? Bank account? Opportunities to sell things she's made? Get her games that involve reading, and comic books, etc. I realize this is more "unschooly" in nature, but it can only help.

As for chores, I'd suggest something similar, just asking her -- or better yet, inviting her -- to "be with" the household work, and involve the younger kids too. For instance, have everyone do the dishes together, and sing a song while working. It's more effort, but it will also make for a smoother, happier atmosphere without resentment. I'm really just thinking you need a whole-family paradigm shift in how you approach everyday work if you ever want her to come to it willingly and without the "bad attitude".

I hope this came off as helpful and not judging. I can't imagine how hard it must be open your home to a child who wasn't brought up by you and has numerous obstacles to overcome in adjusting to our culture, even knowing how sweet and fun and wonderful she is.
post #20 of 59
Do you have any mom friends that you could do a swap with? They could tutor in a subject in return for a meal, babysitting, or tutoring their child. Doesn't even necessarily need to be a homeschooling mom as long as they are supportive of your decisions.

Then they could be the bad guy.
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