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Kindergarten fun?!?!?! - rant - Page 3

post #41 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma View Post
y'know, we don't homeschool, but may in the future and seriously considered it this year. dd1 is in a private school (spending the college fund now) where they're outside a lot and my main beef with it is the full day, but that's a thread for another forum. anyway, what i was chiming in here to say is that when those well-meaning, but clueless folks ask your dc, "but what grade would you be in?" i think an appropriate response would be to sorta sidestep and talk about what dc is learning. "we're learning all about castles right now. do you know what a portcullis is?" or "i counted out 100 green peas last night and they stretched all around the side of the table."

hth
that's a huge help! we don't know whether to say dd1 would be in k or 1st because she misses the ps cutoff by 5 days, so she would have had to test in to k last year.

It's coming up a lot lately (is there some astrological occurence I'm unaware of)...and dd has been really uncomfortable in some conversations lately.

That's a great response I could give to engage the questioner without being rude.
post #42 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
It's coming up a lot lately (is there some astrological occurence I'm unaware of)...and dd has been really uncomfortable in some conversations lately.
That's the thing.... my kids are really comfortable with themselves, but when people are constantly putting you on the spot and quizzing you, even a confident person tends to feel like a bit of a freak show.
post #43 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
When your child WAS in school did you ever go in and spend a day in his class helping out? Do you realize just how long it takes a class of say 12-15 students (grades k-2nd) to line up to go out of class for each thing they do per day?
Nope, but I remember being a kid and being bored by how much time was being wasted each day with that nonsense. (Okay, it's not entirely nonsense if you're dealing with a dozen kids or so, being necessary didn't make it any less boring.)

I did a demo at a local afterschool program last year. Before the kids were sent off to do their activities, they were all in the cafeteria for a snack. The principal or someone had to make an announcement. She wasted 15 minutes asking for silence. When she started speaking *I* could've made her announcement without a microphone. By the time she'd finally gotten the quiet she wanted (and punished *all* the kids by taking away the dessert part of the snack for the next day and then the next day because some kids were making noise (and I'll bet the kids who were making noise didn't even hear that part, so it was the "good" kids who got the full brunt of the punishment and were the ones who were going to have to listen to whining about "but we weren't *told*" later on)) she'd had to deal with increased noise levels from the kids who had gotten bored by her blabbing on about how everyone needed to be quiet. I'm an adult and I was bored and wanted to start chatting at people just to make it easier to ignore her.

Anyway, the homework isn't the teachers' faults. It's beaucracy's fault. So as a kindness to the teachers, I'm keeping my kids out of school so they have one less student to try to help despite the idiodicies of school administration.
post #44 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Anyway, the homework isn't the teachers' faults. It's beaucracy's fault. So as a kindness to the teachers, I'm keeping my kids out of school so they have one less student to try to help despite the idiodicies of school administration.
me too! I like to do my part.
post #45 of 105

I agree I am helping to contribute to lower class sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by townmouse View Post
me too! I like to do my part.
and God bless teachers because it's much easier IMHO to homeschool 4 children ages 10 (Asperger's), 9, 7, and 3 1/2 (autistic) than it would be to teach as many as they have to (a law just passed a couple of years ago to reduce class size to 18 for the elementary grades but my children had 24 children and 22 children in their classes).

Sincerely,
Debra, homeschooling mom of 4 ages 10, 9, 7, and 3 1/2
post #46 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
Do you realize just how long it takes a class of say 12-15 students (grades k-2nd) to line up to go out of class for each thing they do per day?
Umm, yeah. That's part of why we decided to homeschool. Public school was a huge waste of time, imo.
post #47 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles View Post
DS: I'm not in any grade; I'm homeschooled.
Person: Oh, but what grade would you be in if you were in school?
Mama: What military rank are you?
Person: I'm not in the military.
Mama: But what rank would you be if you WERE in the military?

THAT is grand!!!!!
post #48 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by chfriend View Post
that's a huge help! ...
That's a great response I could give to engage the questioner without being rude.
glad to help. dd1 has been learning all about castles lately and i forgot about portcullises (portculli?) until she brought them up recently. made me feel like, "oh yeah -- those things. what a smart kid." so if that's the response you'd like your listener to have i say go for it and show off those smarts.
post #49 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ABand3 View Post
Umm, yeah. That's part of why we decided to homeschool. Public school was a huge waste of time, imo.
but that's your personal opinion. some people (like myself) aren't so close-minded to think that their way is the only way. I respect any and all types of schooling.

Quote:
Nope, but I remember being a kid and being bored by how much time was being wasted each day with that nonsense. (Okay, it's not entirely nonsense if you're dealing with a dozen kids or so, being necessary didn't make it any less boring.
but maybe you just didn't like school, not all kids do. I hated school, every single year until I finally quit in high school. that doesn't mean ALL kids do or will hate it, even your own. I H/S my own children the earlier years just because I hated school so much and hated to see them go through what I did. But guess what - they love it. They don't get bored, they even get to talk quietly in the hallways and aren't expected to stay in a straight line. Not all schools are the same and not all schools are bad and some kids just naturally like the school atmosphere better than others.

So as a parent I don't assume that my children will hate something just because I did. Plus I can't make their decisions for them forever.
post #50 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles
If it's just "busywork" to get kids "used to" doing homework, then it has no value. No, it won't kill a child, but it sure can kill the desire to learn.
sure, maybe for "some" kids but how can you generalize and say that it would kill it for all children. there are some children that don't mind homework and others who will complain about it. that's just how it is.

I think homework teaches children that work doesn't end just because you go home in the afternoon. It helps them prepare for adulthood in a tiny little way. I do housework all day long and it doesn't end after my family gets home and we have dinner. I have more to do after that or else I put it off til the next day and get seriously behind on my housework later. It's all relative actually.
post #51 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
but that's your personal opinion. some people (like myself) aren't so close-minded to think that their way is the only way. I respect any and all types of schooling.
Well I respect all types of schooling too but I also realize that *for me* schooling *was* a huge waste of time (I spent most of my school years getting in trouble for reading books under my desk instead of doing the "busy work" they deemed necessary). I tend to fall asleep in teacher directed situations (yep even as an adult although I have learned enough to excuse myself and go splash water on my face and drink gallons of caffeinated beverages to attempt to counteract this effect when I am forced to endure it as an adult).

Not everyone does well in all schooling situations. Some people do very well in teacher directed environments and others do better when they get to control the pace, flow and type of learning. I recognize a great deal of myself in my son and I didn't want him to learn to "get by"...I wanted him to reach his full potential (something I never did). So I choose to homeschool him.

Recognizing the limitations of various learning situations is a good thing. It helps us to make informed decisions about what situations would be best for us at any given time.

Off my soapbox now.

Steph
post #52 of 105
deleted by me.
post #53 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
but who is to say that a child that goes to school every day doesn't all learn those things when at home with their parent (or while at school) my kids learn this kind of stuff all the time. I do all the same stuff I did with them back when I used to homeschool then and they still go to school every day. so what's your point? You think people who send their children to private/public schools don't spend time with them at home either? That's so wrong. You have no idea what each and every family does inside their own home and just because they don't homeschool doesn't mean they aren't learning.
I think beanma was trying to give a suggestion of what to say when someone keeps asking what grade your dc is in, and they just don't understand that some homeschoolers aren't in a grade. I think her point was that instead of saying "they're not in a grade" over and over and over, you could tell them what dc is learning. I don't think her comment had anything to do with what traditionally schooled children are or aren't learning.
post #54 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles
If it's just "busywork" to get kids "used to" doing homework, then it has no value. No, it won't kill a child, but it sure can kill the desire to learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
sure, maybe for "some" kids but how can you generalize and say that it would kill it for all children. there are some children that don't mind homework and others who will complain about it. that's just how it is.
2tadpoles said can, not will. She does say "if it's just 'busywork' [...] it has no value", which you don't refute. Claiming that someone is generalizing and saying "all"when they say "can" isn't really helping to convince me to change my opinion to yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68
I think homework teaches children that work doesn't end just because you go home in the afternoon. It helps them prepare for adulthood in a tiny little way. I do housework all day long and it doesn't end after my family gets home and we have dinner. I have more to do after that or else I put it off til the next day and get seriously behind on my housework later. It's all relative actually.
When I worked outside the house, the really nice thing about work, versus my many years of schooling, was that I could leave it at work- I'd come home and could have the rest of my life, be with my family, take care of my house, engage in my hobbies, veg in front of the tv, whatever; it was vastly more pleasant than those years of school where I constantly felt like I was "wasting time" when I did anything other than reading/homework/studying (not that I didn't "waste time" in exactly that way, but it was always grinding at me, and did very little, through 10 years of grade school and 7 years of college, to help me actually learn to organize my time). The discovery that "real life" was not much like school was a pretty big revelation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma
i think an appropriate response would be to sorta sidestep and talk about what dc is learning. "we're learning all about castles right now. do you know what a portcullis is?" or "i counted out 100 green peas last night and they stretched all around the side of the table."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
but who is to say that a child that goes to school every day doesn't all learn those things when at home with their parent (or while at school) my kids learn this kind of stuff all the time. I do all the same stuff I did with them back when I used to homeschool then and they still go to school every day. so what's your point? You think people who send their children to private/public schools don't spend time with them at home either? That's so wrong. You have no idea what each and every family does inside their own home and just because they don't homeschool doesn't mean they aren't learning.
You seem to me to be putting words and concepts into people's posts that I'm just not seeing- the response you're responding to was about something to say when someone asks what grade a child is in, and has nothing to do with assumption about what anyone else is doing with their time. In fact, the person you're quoting there said that their children are in private school, not homeschooled at all.
post #55 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
but that's your personal opinion.
Yes, that's why I ended my sentence with "imo", meaning in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
some people (like myself) aren't so close-minded to think that their way is the only way. I respect any and all types of schooling.
I beg to differ with the assumption that because one has an opinion, one is close-minded. It sounds like you are calling me (and others here) close- minded for making, and defending, a choice for our children. My son tried public school, we saw that it wasn't working for him, we mutally agreed to homeschool. School works for most people, that's great, I'm not disrespecting anyone else's choice.

Mommy68, are you a public school teacher, feeling unappreciated?

Sorry to further push this thread off topic. Kindergarten is fun for some children, not fun for others; for some, the answer is homeschool. We're all just trying to make the best decisions for our families.
post #56 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68
but who is to say that a child that goes to school every day doesn't all learn those things when at home with their parent (or while at school) my kids learn this kind of stuff all the time. I do all the same stuff I did with them back when I used to homeschool then and they still go to school every day. so what's your point? You think people who send their children to private/public schools don't spend time with them at home either? That's so wrong. You have no idea what each and every family does inside their own home and just because they don't homeschool doesn't mean they aren't learning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eris View Post
In fact, the person you're quoting there said that their children are in private school, not homeschooled at all.

couldn't quite figure out that multi-quote thing, but um...yeah. my child is in school. my point was actually in response to the train of thought that nitenites brought up here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitenites
In my experience, even after your child says, "I'm homeschooled," people will still continue to ask what grade he's in. Folks just can't seem to get it through their thick skulls that we don't do schooling that way! It goes something like this:

Person: Oh, hi! How old are you?
DS: I'm six.
Person: Oh, so you're in kindergarten? Or is it first grade?
DS: I'm homeschooled.
Person: Oh, that's great! But what grade are you in?

I haven't yet come up with a good answer to that one that's not a novel.
all i was suggesting was if folks don't stop asking what grade the child is in after they've been told they homeschool an appropriate response might be to explain what the child is learning.

the two real life examples are from my real life. dd1 is learning about castles in SCHOOL, but the green pea one we did on our own when she was about 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68
...You think people who send their children to private/public schools don't spend time with them at home either? That's so wrong. You have no idea what each and every family does inside their own home and just because they don't homeschool doesn't mean they aren't learning.
y'know this is just a stressful time of year. i have been super stressed out and would be better off using this middle of the night time to get some holiday stuff done instead of responding to this. i'm just going to mark this down as maybe mommy68 being stressed out, too, and misreading my original message? since i do send my kid to private school of course i don't think parents don't spend time with them, etc, etc. let's all have a sip pf tea (or the beverage of your choice) take it as easy as we can and not forget that there are real people at keyboards on the other end of this new-fangled internet thing. .
post #57 of 105
So good to be reminded, beanma, that there are real people at keyboards and that the internet can be a powerful tool for spreading peace--or the opposite!

It is sad that some people can't accept others' choice to homeschool--especially when they start working on our kids and trying to convince them that they should be in school. I notice this more often with people who are elderly and possibly not familiar with the homeschool movement. (Maybe these are the same older women who would tell me that I hadn't dressed my baby warmly enough?)

We're also stumped when asked what grades our children are in, with one Sept. birthday and delays in some areas and acceleration in others. My kids seem to want to identify with a grade level--they have a number of friends in school--but when questioned about grades, sometimes they simply answer, "I'm nine right now," etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beanma View Post
y'know this is just a stressful time of year. i have been super stressed out and would be better off using this middle of the night time to get some holiday stuff done instead of responding to this. i'm just going to mark this down as maybe mommy68 being stressed out, too, and misreading my original message? since i do send my kid to private school of course i don't think parents don't spend time with them, etc, etc. let's all have a sip pf tea (or the beverage of your choice) take it as easy as we can and not forget that there are real people at keyboards on the other end of this new-fangled internet thing. .
post #58 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
So I guess high school students shouldn't be prepared for college or the work force during grades 9-12 (a college looks at the whole high school record, not just 12th grade ). It's all very relevant you know, no matter what the age group. I feel it's great practice for a K-1st grader to have some homework to let them know what is expected of them in future grades. That way they are "better" prepared for it and don't suddenly have to adapt to the foreign idea of homework one day in the future because they weren't exposed to it. And really, does a little homework kill a child?
Studies show over and over that homework does not help children learn or retain information. That it merely occupies their time. They do not critically think while doing dittos and worksheets. Even on mainstream news I have seen reports where the newscaster says that homework doesn't help kids learn or retain and then school administrators come on and explain that kids need to fill their afterschool time with work so that they don't get into trouble.

Even schools admit homework doesn't do much but occupy kids. I'm surprised to hear you defend it so passionately when most of mainstream society seems to have accepted that homework in elementary school is basically worthless in terms of education.

In current college human development classes they teach that children learn through play and that sitting down and doing work teaches them that play is not that valuable, just entertainment, and that learning is work. When they don't developmentally learn that way anyway! So we are making it so much harder for them to learn as it is, and taking away their valuable learning tools, then making them go home and do it some more. I don't get it. It's not a controversial thing. There was actually a specialized class at my local college called "Learning Through Play" and it showed how a child's brain develops and how children lrean, process and retain information. And it's not through homework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68 View Post
When your child WAS in school did you ever go in and spend a day in his class helping out? Do you realize just how long it takes a class of say 12-15 students (grades k-2nd) to line up to go out of class for each thing they do per day? The children in those earliest grades are the very hardest to get to listen before walking in the hallways to get to other areas of the school.

Plus, a teacher spends a lot of time in the class helping individual students to the point where some things can't even be included in her day 'as planned' because she ran out of time when she had some areas to go over in certain subjects more than others. The teachers ARE doing their jobs and then some in most cases.

Plus, factor in the time each day that the teacher has to take the class to the bathroom and allow 2-3 kids at a time to go potty while the other children wait in the hall, the time it takes to include art, music and recess on whatever days of the week (recess hopefully every day) and not to mention lunch and getting the kids to all go through the line with no problems. A day of school is NOT that simple.

It's simple to put the kids on the bus and send them on their merry way and to complain when they get a little homework or not enough recess or lunch time. Give me a break! Try to give teachers a little credit when dealing with someone "else's" child all day long in a class of atleast 12 kids or more. It IS very hard to fit it all in to one day.
This is something that I couldn't stand about school for my dd. She was in a tiny class with 3 teachers and there was still so much time allocated for getting the kids to sit down, get in a line, go outside, come inside, go potty, etc. So much time spent on nothing! I don't have any good ideas on how to streamline things with a group of kids. It is intrinsically harder to do simple takes with groups of children. This is one of the reasons we homeschool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2tadpoles View Post
No, it won't kill a child, but it sure can kill the desire to learn.
I think this is definitely true.

WRT the OP- I run into "You'll make so many friends at school!" a lot with dd. But she always says, "I have lots of friends and I can make new friends at the park." And I kind of want to chime in behind her, "Yeah, so there!" and blow a raspberry at them. But I am way too mature for that.
post #59 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eris View Post
The discovery that "real life" was not much like school was a pretty big revelation.
I haven't been participating in this thread, but I had to quote this. This was a BIG revelation for me too. In school, many of my teachers frequently went on about "the real world" and how we just weren't going to cut it. I remember my World History teacher berating us over "the real world" a week before we graduated high school. And then, the real world....was nothing like school! I've even worked a stressful job with a consulting firm, in which I frequently took my work home with me on the plane. It was still not like school. People often say that school helps kids prepare for the real world (and that homeschooled kids are missing out on this). In my personal experience, school was incredibly removed from the real world and nothing in my real life experience has ever come close to it. I don't feel that it prepared me for the real world at all; it was just a part of my life back then.

Now I have that John Meyer song in my head: "Welcome to the real world, she said to me, condescendingly. Take a seat. Take you life. Plot it out in black and white....I just found out there's no such thing as 'the real world', just a lie we have to rise above."

*wanders off humming*
post #60 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftField View Post
Now I have that John Meyer song in my head: "Welcome to the real world, she said to me, condescendingly. Take a seat. Take you life. Plot it out in black and white....I just found out there's no such thing as 'the real world', just a lie we have to rise above."
"They love to tell you
Stay inside the lines
But something's better
On the other side"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mommy68
I think homework teaches children that work doesn't end just because you go home in the afternoon. It helps them prepare for adulthood in a tiny little way.
So does real life.

I don't bring my work home with me, and neither does my DP or my kids' dad. We don't have "homework." We live real life. My sons' "real life" living just happens to extend throughout the entire day, rather than being broken up between "school" and "real life."
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