Leap of Faith? (Sort of spinoff question)

[Nikki98]

I know it was just recently asked how do you explain to others about eating traditionally. So this question came to my mind- are you truly comfortable eating TF or do you have any reservations about it?

I know I have read about co, butter, animal fats (good fats), eggs and cholesterol, but sometimes in the back of my mind I think-"I hope these fats won't hurt my health", I know this is silly , but when I read something about the "bad" sat fats I admit I do get a little nervous (there just seems to be so much info on both sides, especially the low fat side, that how does one know for sure). The thing that keeps me into TF is that I feel so much better .

So how do you deal with the mainstream low-fat tide? Do you think you are taking a "leap of faith"-so to speak- in eating this way. I been into this about 4 months so I am still learning.

[Sifreynir]

I have only just come across this concept of traditional foods. Seems an sad state of affairs when we have to rename ways of things which should really be the norm and we should rename the 'other stuff'

Anyway if I am understanding this correctly...TF is the way my grandparents ate, particuarly during WWII where they grew their own foods to help the war effort and reared their own meat because the vouchers didn't give them enough as they would have liked (wasn't legal but hey!)

MY grandad died aged 80 years old in his sleep, he had been out walkin that morning. He used to eat bread and dripping and poured the fat from the roasting tin all over his dinner to avoid it going to waste. Can't honestly say I am a fan of fatty dinner or bread and dripping. But he seemed none the worse for it and lived a full and active life.

My grandad used to say that if we stopped eating everything that was supposed to be bad for us (as in food groups), we would starve. Smart man my grandad

[saratc]

The proof is really in how you are feeling and in how others who are eating lowfat and avoiding saturated fats look and feel. I see coworkers who have extremely lowfat meals and fill up on lowfat foods like soup and saltines for lunch and struggling with their weight. My DH and I both lost a significant amount of weight and have had our moods stabilize and health improve from switching to a whole traditional diet.

Based on my own experiences, I have long ago lost faith in conventional medicine and mainstream health and food recommendations. There was a thread about this awhile ago, but the idea that saturated fats are good for you is the hardest to overcome because our generation has been brainwashed from childhood to avoid saturated fats. Up until a couple of years ago, I religiously avoided eating more than 3 eggs a week.

If you haven't already read it, Know Your Fats by Mary Enig really explains how the different fats behave. It goes really in depth in terms of the science and molecular breakdown of lipids and really helped convince me that I need to avoid vegetable oils at all cost and stick with saturated fats for cooking.

[cottontail]

I'm new to TF, too and I am very surprised that I'm not more apprehensive about it. Intuitively it makes a great deal of sense to me.

I used to be a total packaged health food junkie! Conversion will be slow, and I'm sure never complete. But, if anything, I've become more locally minded and will hopefully rub off some on my family and friends.

[Gale Force]

I have no problem at all with a paleo diet because that's how humans lived for many centuries. The question in my mind comes in how much we should eat in terms of grain, dairy, and saturated fat. I feel better when I don't eat grains (even soaked) so for me, those should be out. I did the exclusive milk diet and felt better for it, so I don't think dairy is bad in my case, but I'm not convinced that I should eat as much butter as I would like to. The paleo diet was lower in saturated fat simply because wild game is leaner, so I wonder what our limit should be on saturated fat. I am definitely convinced that my former low fat diet was a very bad idea.

[Leilalu]

Well, just from a purely logical(and comical) view, since the beginning of time(or mostly) mankind has been able to get the fat from an animal, and use it and eat it to survive. I have never heard of documented cases where thee same men built factories back then for making vegetable oils. So, just in light of recent technologies promoting vegetable oils, I am more inclined to trust ancient wisdom.I think if something can stand up on it's own throughout the ages, then there must be some truth to it.Take Chinese medicine, for example- my mom can go on and on about studies that she has heard of about mushrooms being really bad for you because they are a fungus-and fungus in the body can do a lot of harm, apparently. To which I reply, "well, yeah mom-but do you know how many types there are? Are you arguing against ancient, documented, proven wisdom on this?" And I say that because I have eaten Shitake mushrooms for my IMMUNE SYSTEM. yk, like to help.
Also, if you go on any trips to 2nd or 3 rd world countries, many (most)native people still use animal fats, they soak their grains, they just prepare food differently.I have personally seen this myself. When I was in South Africa-both times- I have had cooks who prepared food in a traditional manner that were by no means low fat.

>insert small rant<
It just makes sense to me on so many levels. And our bodies need a certain amount of fat just to function properly! And I really don't think it was God's design for us to have to get everything from a grocery store or eat highly processed foods and fats-or it would have been that way all along, not just in recent history.
>end rant<

[Leilalu]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

I have no problem at all with a paleo diet because that's how humans lived for many centuries. The question in my mind comes in how much we should eat in terms of grain, dairy, and saturated fat. I feel better when I don't eat grains (even soaked) so for me, those should be out. I did the exclusive milk diet and felt better for it, so I don't think dairy is bad in my case, but I'm not convinced that I should eat as much butter as I would like to. The paleo diet was lower in saturated fat simply because wild game is leaner, so I wonder what our limit should be on saturated fat. I am definitely convinced that my former low fat diet was a very bad idea.

I agree -with that last part especially I think in our modern society we have access to so many foods, and even good ones that we tend to go overboard.

[Sifreynir]

with regards to paleo diet - due you think genetic make up plays a part in what foods a person will react to?

90% of our DNA comes from our mothers and we can all be traced back to one ancestral mother via DNA analysis. Obviously these women developed in various parts of the world, where certain foods would have been more readily available than others and they and their off spring would have developed and evolved according to that.

So should we be looking at our own personal make up for clues as to what is and what is not 'bad' for us?

[tamagotchi]

To answer the original question, traditional foods seem perfectly normal to me, because that's pretty much what my mother and grandmother fed me when I was little. I remember eating raw milk and butter, organ meats, sauerkraut, home canned vegetables and fruits, fresh food out of my grandmother's organic garden, salmon that we caught and smoked ourselves, meat from my mom's friends' cattle, eggs from the neighbor's chickens, etc... I feel very lucky!

I think it is possible that the paleo diet is "optimal" for human beings, but I think that a traditional diet is good enough for me. My grandmother still grows her own vegetables in her mid 90s, I want to be like her when I grow up!

[pampered_mom]

I don't think it's anymore of a leap of faith than any other way of eating. Every choice in and of itself requires some degree of faith. I guess the question for yourself is whether or not the degree of faith you put into your decision is met with the same amount of "results" in your life.

The proof is in the pudding so to speak.

[newcastlemama]

There is always that small doubt with me that NT with all the (sat) fats is good for you. It is like anything that goes against the mainstream--homebirth, no vax, homeschooling. I am always hoping I am doing the right thing, but my worries decrease and my confidence in these choices increases over time. The more I read, hear success stories, and watch my health improve the less conerned I get about cholesterol ect.

I get comfort knowing that it is only VERY recently society went low-fat, hospital birthing ect and that people have lived this way for 1000s+ of years. I also have older family members raised on traditonal diets and they are very healthy. My granny lived to be 103 and died in her home without ever being in a care facility!

I don't know about proportions of each food group either. I eat a lot of meat, but I still think I have some anemia and zinc issues so I will probably eventually eat less. I am gluten-intolerant, but feel tired on all grains and potatoes generally. I think that just eating all whole traditional foods puts you at a huge advantage over any diet, even if your food groups porportions are off, KWIM? Also, in NandPD Price talks about all diffrerent diets with different porportions of foods. Massai were pretty carnivorous and they still had no heart disease when they performed autopsies.

I remember something interesting in The Cholesterol Myths. The author said that every thing we do has risk. When I met Sandor Katz few weeks ago he talked about how there was no way to make eating 100% safe (or risk free) or we would never eat! It is so true. I think the issue in modern USA is that we have so many choices and see the human body in a very scientific way. We are also losing the ancient wisdon of the generations before us making us more dependant on various corporations who just want our money and not what is best for us like granny does.

As usual, I hope that makes sense
Jen

[Gale Force]

Originally Posted by Sifreynir

with regards to paleo diet - due you think genetic make up plays a part in what foods a person will react to?

90% of our DNA comes from our mothers and we can all be traced back to one ancestral mother via DNA analysis. Obviously these women developed in various parts of the world, where certain foods would have been more readily available than others and they and their off spring would have developed and evolved according to that.

So should we be looking at our own personal make up for clues as to what is and what is not 'bad' for us?

Yes, probably. That's why I don't make too much out of milk. Some traditional foods people tell me that milk doesn't agree with them but I've experienced good benefits from it.

Amanda

[Gale Force]

Jennifer,

I ate a whole lot of meat for two years and was hungry all the time. I don't eat nearly as much anymore and don't have the hunger problems either. I think it is a period of rebuilding that will pass.

In terms of fat, I am less worried about the beef because ours is pretty darned lean. I think the bigger issue is the dairy. In NT, Fallon says something like "so eat as much butter as you want." My mom has said on occasion "does she realize how much butter I can eat if I open the floodgates?" Same with me. I could eat (and have eaten) a whole lot of butter. I think in this case moderation is a value we're going to adopt in this household. Weston Price's boys whose lunches he made only ate some butter on their bread each day. And their bread probably didn't look quite as butter-soaked as some of mine has looked. (Or some of my vegetables when I'm actually grain free.)

Amanda

[Nikki98]

I am really enjoying reading the comments being posted. I can say for sure that I feel so well eating traditionally. Before transitioning to TF, I had such intense cravings for sweets, I mean really intense. I felt always hungry, moody, fatigued, etc. I mean I would get up in the AM and after getting my daughter off to school, I would want to go right back to bed. I wanted this to stop.

It was mainly reading thru this forum (thanks you guys ) that I became acquainted with TF (I was in so intrigued by fats being good for you and meats as well, yea !!) But as a began to slowly adopted more TF priniciples in my diet, I began to have more energy. So as pamered_mom put it "the proof is in the pudding", but I am human and at times I do have questions.

[Nikki98]

Originally Posted by Gale Force

Jennifer,

I ate a whole lot of meat for two years and was hungry all the time. I don't eat nearly as much anymore and don't have the hunger problems either. I think it is a period of rebuilding that will pass.

In terms of fat, I am less worried about the beef because ours is pretty darned lean. I think the bigger issue is the dairy. In NT, Fallon says something like "so eat as much butter as you want." My mom has said on occasion "does she realize how much butter I can eat if I open the floodgates?" Same with me. I could eat (and have eaten) a whole lot of butter. I think in this case moderation is a value we're going to adopt in this household. Weston Price's boys whose lunches he made only ate some butter on their bread each day. And their bread probably didn't look quite as butter-soaked as some of mine has looked. (Or some of my vegetables when I'm actually grain free.)

Amanda

Good point Amanda about moderation. Yes maybe too much of a good thing is well, too much . But there is something I think I read about a person should have about 3 tablespoons of coconut oil daily, but at times I have more co than that daily.

[rareimer]

i agree with mollybeesmamma, that intuitively, it just all made too much sense to me to NOT be the right way to go. since i started, i've really never looked back. i look at it like--if people have eaten this way since time immemorial practically, and it is only in recent history that people have become so chronically unhealthy, that the low-fat diets that are promoted now just CAN'T be health-giving. if they were, people would be healthier now than they used to be, and that is definitely NOT the case.

it also doesn't make sense that Mother Nature/God/Goddess/Creation would have made saturated fat so easy to extract and eat and polyunsaturated veg oils so difficult if the veg oils were the way to go. if it is easy to extract--ie. animal fat, coconut oil, even olive oil, then it's probably meant more for us to consume than something that you need to use solvents to extract.

and for me too, the proof really is in the pudding. i feel so much better than i used to.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by Nikki98

It was mainly reading thru this forum (thanks you guys ) that I became acquainted with TF (I was in so intrigued by fats being good for you and meats as well, yea !!) But as a began to slowly adopted more TF priniciples in my diet, I began to have more energy. So as pamered_mom put it "the proof is in the pudding", but I am human and at times I do have questions.

I think that if you never had questions then that would probably be more cause from concern than if you do. I think questions and doubts are a natural, healthy process to go through when you are making a paradigm shift like this one (or any shift for that matter). I think that's where the "leap of faith" comes in.

Sometimes you just gotta leap even if you don't know all the answers right away. Sometimes you fall flat on your face and sometimes you discover that the chasm that you though you were jumping wasn't nearly as wide as you thought it was. I've found that the "faith" component is much larger at first, but as time goes on and you learn more and experience more it becomes a much smaller component of the decision.

But that's just me and my non-logical, non-science driven self. For some other people I suppose the information/research/logic aspect of the decision is much greater. I think ultimately you have to go with what works for you.

[newcastlemama]

Thanks for sharing that Amanda. It is really a pain to feel like I need meat at every meal. When I try and cut back I start getting tired and cranky at this point....(Plus it is expensive!!!)


Jen

[oldgirl,newtricks]

I just tell people that I am a traditional Southern cook. Which I am, as were the other women in my family. I'm really not feeding my family anything different that what I ate while growing up. I'm the only person I know who saves bacon grease and my kids think a scrambled egg without bacon grease is pretty bad.

My only concern (fat, etc.) is that we do not have the physically active lifestyle as the previous couple of generations. Dh is an accountant and spends hours at a desk. I'm a teacher, and although I'm moving more, it doesn't exactly get my heart rate up there.

I think animal fats can be overdone for anyone who doesn't work manual labor jobs or exercise as much as needed to burn it off.

[gilamama]

Originally Posted by oldgirl,newtricks

My only concern (fat, etc.) is that we do not have the physically active lifestyle as the previous couple of generations. Dh is an accountant and spends hours at a desk. I'm a teacher, and although I'm moving more, it doesn't exactly get my heart rate up there.

I think animal fats can be overdone for anyone who doesn't work manual labor jobs or exercise as much as needed to burn it off.

that is so true! fortunately with a 3 yo and 11 mo o, I am pretty active