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What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers?

post #1 of 433
Thread Starter 
In light of recent threads, I've begun to really wonder why people who truly research decide to vax?
What are the deciding factors or major pro arguments that lead people to vax ?

I'm honestly not trying to start WW3 here. I like to see both sides to the extreme to see where people are coming from and why some highly intelligent people who really do read and research can come to a completely different conclusion than another? What am I missing here?
post #2 of 433
I am not a pro-vaxer, but I could see vax'ing based on numbers. If you use the pre-vaccine disease incidence rate and the current day risk of complications, and you compare that to the *known* risks of vaccines, you'd find that *with that info* vaxing looks less risky.
(of course, you'd have to believe that the incidence rate would be the same today as it was prevaccine, and you'd have to believe that all the known risks, are the only risks.)
Ok, so I guess that's a crappy one. But it's the only one I can think of. lol
post #3 of 433
When you break things down, there are still ok reasons to vax for some things. I can see how someone would want to (not on the schedule, though).
The more valid reasons just aren't very compelling. The "fake" reasons are the motivating ones. But they're not true. The real reasons, when you think about them, also show you what a big experiment this whole vax thing is, and how most of the assumptions tend to prove wrong.
post #4 of 433
The reality is that as Blessed said, if you are unlucky enough to get full-on tetanus, or polio, it isn't nice. I guess serious complications from measles and chickenpox aren't nice either. Getting liver cancer after Hep B (which can only happen if your diet is trash and you use liver processing OTC or prescription drugs) isn't nice either. Doctors who counsel people whose 4 week old baby has died from pertussis caught from an ICU nurse (true, I got told about this last night)find it hard, particularly when the "experts" say the vaccine is the answer. It didn't matter that the ICU nurse was fully vaccinated. Now the ICU is requiring all ICU nurses to have the TdaP or else they can't work there.

It comes down to whether a person focuses on the WCS (worst case scenario) or whether they can feel that their non-ICU, normal baby, and parenting skills are enough.

Most pro-vaccine parents I know, don't have the knowledge or the skills to nurse their children through infections that are more than a sniffle. They rely on the experts for answers, and certainly have absolutely no faith in the immune systems of their children. They are the ones who say "I couldn't live with myself if my child got really sick and died." So no matter how rare anything might be, those are the reasons they can't get past.

Often, many of them, knowing that its a fragile reason in terms of logic, then add on the altruism angle, by saying that they are protecting all the other kids so that they won't die either.

I've tried to show these people all the risks, facts and data, but ultimately it will come down to wanting to do the "right" thing according to the system: to be accepted by the system.

When they vaccinate their children they don't have to worry, and its the worry relief that is the most important thing for them, as I hear them talk about it.
post #5 of 433
I'd say fear of disease, no matter how remote the chances are, and incredible faith in official reassurances about safety-efficacy of vaccination would do it for the most.
post #6 of 433
I think it is just that they *can't* break themselves free of the matrix, LOL!

They simply can't wrap their minds around the fact that *everyone* else is wrong..all the doctors, mothers, friends, the gov't, "experts", etc....

It is REALLY difficult to say "hey...all these other people believe the world is flat, but there are a couple of whackos who are *insisting* it is round.....crazy anti-flatEarth people!....Who cares that they have maps and some sort of crazy "prrof" using some new-fnagled math and stuff...there are even some people who claim to have BEEN around the world....Ya, right!! Crazy people......"
post #7 of 433
So true, bobandjess... So many of the people I know who vax (who refuse to do any research about it either) are so indoctrinated into the "trust everyone in a position of authority/always go with the majority, so many people can't be wrong" thing.

It also usually manifests itself in every aspect of their lives; the keeping up with the Jones', the run out and buy the newest crazed-trend item, the "I don't know why I want it or need it, but the media tells me I have to have it/society says I'm supposed to want it/my neighbor has it therefore I must"... I'm not saying this goes for everywhere, but from the people I've seen and conversed with here, it's all so inter-connected you can't tell where one thing ends and another begins.
post #8 of 433
I don't think the OP is talking about the people who the medical profession calls the bandwaggoners. I think she is talking about people who do research, but want to vaccinate.

I think Spy has hit the nail on the head in that these people do convince themselves that vaccines are so safe that its worth doing, even if there isn't much of a chance of dying from a disease. Sort of "Well, we can do it, its safe, doesn't do anything bad, so why not?"

People do have a comfort zone that, no matter what facts are put there, they prefer to do what others do.
post #9 of 433
I have been thinking about this lately, too.

I just switched to a non-vaxing ped and even she says, "Look, as much I have reasons why I won't offer them in my practice, some of them DO work really well."

Some of them probably do work better than others, even though we don't like to give any of them credit around here. (Granted, at what cost to the body do they offer that protection from said disease)

I personally had my own switch philosophically, where I really faced the fact that with either choice, no parent has ultimate on control on how thier child handles disease and what they become exposed to anymore than whether or not their child suffers a reaction.

I STILL think there are better odds in not vaxing and raising the healthiest child possible, but I have accepted that I can't control this absolutely.

So if a parent does all the research and still chooses to vax, I think it is because they think that is still thier safest route because treating illness really intimidates them.
post #10 of 433
It's neither a big argument nor an impressive one but I've heard quite a bit of "well I was vaxed and it never hurt me" as an end all to the conversation. Of course the many holes in this are obvious so I'll not go into them.
post #11 of 433
I see several hurdles.

First, if illness is always seen as something bad and to be avoided, then why not avoid it? The fact that illnesses in childhood actually accomplish something positive is so contrary to the received wisdom of our time that most people cannot possibly wrap their minds around it.

Second, for people who don't know much history, geography and demographics, it looks as though vaxes really did "save" us. And if we stop vaxing we will be unsaved, obviously.

Third, the conspiracy explanation is a bit far-fetched, especially since their is no evidence that the staff at the various drug companies are avoiding vaxing their kids and grandkids. (I don't think there is much of a conspiracy, just a fatal combination of greed, pride and ignorance.)

Fourth, as has been mentioned, people trust authority. Why not?

Fifth, it is easier to go with the flow, cause once you start questioning who knows where you might end up? It looks to me as though vaxes are one of the last things to be questioned, too. People will do a home birth, cloth diaper, skip the circ, breastfeed for years and so on, before they will start questioning the safety of vaxes.

Sixth, there is a lot of guilt-tripping out there. You gotta vax for the poor, the immune compromised, the people overseas who won't be able to afford vaxes unless millions of us use them to get the price down, the kids with heart problems, the preemies...
post #12 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah
(I don't think there is much of a conspiracy, just a fatal combination of greed, pride and ignorance.)
Don't forget the massive, staggering, mind-blowing arrogance.
post #13 of 433
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post

When they vaccinate their children they don't have to worry, and its the worry relief that is the most important thing for them, as I hear them talk about it.
This is soooo true! Unfortunately this kind of logic rings true for so many things we do in this world. It's why we feel safe doing whatever the government stamps as "safe". The FDA stamp of approval is a magical thing :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
People do have a comfort zone that, no matter what facts are put there, they prefer to do what others do.
I think this pretty much sums it up It is a total comfort zone not based on fact or honesty but on comfort and trust in the powers that be. Is it brainwashing? I think so and unfortunately I am guilty of buying into it way too often. Maybe it doesnt boil down to the hard cold facts and evidence but more so the support you get from highly trusted professionals and other parents that you are doing the right thing because it's what they think you should do :
post #14 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
In light of recent threads, I've begun to really wonder why people who truly research decide to vax?
What are the deciding factors or major pro arguments that lead people to vax ?
My child is more likely to be be harmed by the disease than by the vaccination. Easy decision. That's the main reason. Is it so mind boggling someone might have a different opinion?
post #15 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spy View Post
I'd say fear of disease, no matter how remote the chances are, and incredible faith in official reassurances about safety-efficacy of vaccination would do it for the most.



Fear of getting sick (with anything, including fever) + Faith in the FDA = Very Easily Manipulated Parent
post #16 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by huggerwocky View Post
My child is more likely to be be harmed by the disease than by the vaccination. Easy decision. That's the main reason. Is it so mind boggling someone might have a different opinion?
I for one don't have a problem with someone reaching a different conclusion. The reason things get so heated between vaxers and nonvaxers is that nonvaxers don't have the freedom to make an alternate decision. For those of us who don't agree with you (ie. my son's neurological damage after the cp vax is, I believe, more damage than a case of the chicken pox ever would have done) , we can't opt out as easily as you can opt in. Your decision is respected. Our decision is ridiculed - even for those of us who have seen our children damaged from a vaccination.
post #17 of 433
The fear of being differant
post #18 of 433
The way I see it, even if one were to do no statistical reseach whatsoever, how could we not be skeptical of vaccines simply by reading the ingredients? Seriously: aluminum, mercury,formaldehyde, borax, anti-freeze...how on earth are they convinced that it "safe" to inject these toxins into tiny babies...not to mention the ick factor of human and/or animal blood, monkey kidneys and aborted fetal tissue:
post #19 of 433
People really, truly (even Dp's friend who is a vax researcher for MERCK) believe that the risk of a bad adverse reaction is 1 in a million. :
post #20 of 433
I have always been opposed to unnecessary vaccinations, since I was a teenager and they started telling me that I needed to be REvaccinated for things that I had already been vaccinated for, because it turned out that there were batches of "bad" or ineffective vaccines in the years that I was vaccinated (though not necessarily the city centers). At 16 my mother let me stand up for myself and say NO.

So why will I ultimately vax my own children? Because the system here forces you to vaccinate for certain things or they won't let you put your kids in the public school system! Why not homeschool? Simple, finances. BUT, I don't have to vax them until age 5, and not for everything, just a select few. So DH and I have agreed on selective, delayed vax, and are ok with that. He was dead set against having his other two kids vaccinated for HepB and chicken pox, but was over-ruled by both his ex-wife AND the court system. Go figure.

SOME vaccines do SOME good.... the polio vaccine nearly erradicated a deadly and harmful disease. But with the incidence of polio now being so very low, I would prefer not to vaccinate my children for it unless they were planning on travelling to a country where it was much more prevalent than it is here in Canada. That goes for a whole host of other diseases/vaccines as well.

Oh, and I don't vaccinate my dog either... he's had one rabies vaccine. They are starting to show a link between animal vaccines and animal cancer incidences, wish I could remember a few links for you off the top of my head. (And I wonder when they will start showing those same correlations in the human populations?) They are also showing that the animal vaccines last for WAY longer than they initially thought. i.e. vaccines that they used to administer annually they are now saying last as long as 3-5+ years.
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