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What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers? - Page 10

post #181 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
Can't it be against your personal religion (atheist) to give your child vaccines though? I mean does it have to be written in church doctrine somewhere?
I'm atheist and signed a religious exemption with no problem.
post #182 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
Can't it be against your personal religion (atheist) to give your child vaccines though? I mean does it have to be written in church doctrine somewhere?
We have the "sincere" and "bona fide" language here. I know in NY they pretty much want you to specifically mention god, and if they sense even a hint of a "scientific issue", your exemption is denied, but I don't know about here. (Tennessee).
I guess I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
post #183 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykdsmomy View Post
Can't it be against your personal religion (atheist) to give your child vaccines though?
Yes, it can.


Quote:
I mean does it have to be written in church doctrine somewhere?
No, it does not.
post #184 of 433
Quote:
These are bioethicists who are implementing plans to do nifty stuff like vaccinating middle school kids with the HPV vaccine at school for the sole purpose of "overcoming" the "parental consent" barrier to care.
What else can we expect from a group of psychopaths. I do not use that term lightly either. Here is the American Heritage definition of psychopath.

Quote:
A person with an antisocial personality disorder, manifested in aggressive, perverted, criminal, or amoral behavior without empathy or remorse.
For these psychopaths, parents are simply in the way. When a child suffers a horrific reaction or dies from their vaccines, they make that child a statistic, create some risk/benefit fantasy or try everything they can to deny the death was from their poisons. Is it or is it not amoral and criminal to destroy health and kill.

We now have cameras in school bathrooms without parental consent (is it or is it not perverted to watch children use the restroom), CPS side by side with police officers going to schools without parental consent and interviewing children (is that not aggressive) and soon psychological exams will be taking place.
post #185 of 433
7
post #186 of 433
As some who vaxed my two oldest I have to say it is lack of easily found info against vaxing.I had no idea that you couldn't vax, that there were even side effects other then at the site of the injection. I am not even sure what made me even begin to question all of it in the first place. But I did.
Here is what I thought about... 1.) when are you ever exposed to that many diseases at once, EVER? Maybe if you are in a refugee camp with no water in a war zone might you come in contact with all of the diseases they vax for at once. It isn't that you may come into them at some point in your life, but what 2 month old is around all those things at once, ever? And if we are to keep our babies safe from germs and have people wash up and we are to spray them with Lysol (JK) to keep them safe, why is it ok to pump them full of toxins and dead germs over and over again? And why if the vaxes work do you need to have them so many of them over and over? I mean most people who get mumps (lets say) get it once and that is it.
I guess a major turning point was when I had decided to selectively vax my ds#2 and on a drawn out schedule and I went to the county helath department and when I told them what he was to get they told me (I kid you not) That "This is going on your perment record" What record would that be? And talk about a scare tatic. Why do that? Plus have you seen the paper about vax reactions? It is long and small print and that is IF you get something more then what the Ped hands out.
I hope that I haven't don't long term damage to my two kids who have been vaxed. I can look back and see that it is possible that some of my DD's health problems as an infant and small chuild could very well have been vax related. Chronic ear infections, skin rashes, upper resp illnesses often. Thankfully this isn't a problem any more, but it was an issue after every vax. Only now as I have learned more can I look back and see how it was connected. :

H
post #187 of 433
I completely vaxed my first two kids, and I did it because I believed the doctors when they told me "the benefits far outweigh the risks." I never researched the ingredients or any of the possible effects. Now my daughter has some serious food allergies and other sensitivities, and I started thinking, and doing some research. She will not get any more vaccines, and I am starting to think that they are the cause of her problems. There are too many things wrong with the pro-vax argument IMO.
The problem with questioning vaccines is that you have to come out of the comfortable bubble you have been living in. It feels warm and safe in there to just trust everything the doctor says. You start to question other things as well. Who can you trust? But IMO it is better to live this way, to question everything and get the answers you need to make the decision that feels right in your heart. Even if it is hard to do. Even if everyone around you will think you are crazy.
post #188 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisleypoet View Post
The problem with questioning vaccines is that you have to come out of the comfortable bubble you have been living in. It feels warm and safe in there to just trust everything the doctor says. You start to question other things as well. Who can you trust?
Yes. There have been times when DD was sick that I wished I had that kind of blind faith in the medical system that so many people do, so that I could just take her in and get some drugs and feel like I was doing something. Knowing better than that, well, it keeps her healthier in the long run and has prevented her from getting rounds of unnecessary abx that I'm positive would have been prescribed if I'd taken her in for different things, but which she clearly never needed since she's always recovered within a few days without them. OTOH, if I had some sort of faith in docs and their judgement, it would be such a relief to feel like I was doing something if I could take her in and get meds.

Don't get me wrong - she eats healthy, she nurses and we supplement when/what appropriate, so I am doing something for her, but sometimes I still feel so helpless. And the thing is, since I know doctors often have no idea what they're doing when it comes to sick kids, I wouldn't feel any less helpless if I did take her in, because I'd know they were probably doing something useless at best and harmful at worst. I've crossed some kind of threshold and I can't return. It isn't that I think doctors are never necessary - they certainly have their place - but that place just doesn't happen to be in the treatment of run-of-the-mill coughs, colds, rashes and childhood illnesses. They're good for serious illnesses.
post #189 of 433
Right on, Plummeting...

I now feel that seeing an MD is putting us into a totally out-of-control situation. Long ago, it was like getting a fix of being a child where "the parent" would make everything better and I'd be safe without any responsibility, but then always being let down in the end...
post #190 of 433
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisleypoet View Post
The problem with questioning vaccines is that you have to come out of the comfortable bubble you have been living in. It feels warm and safe in there to just trust everything the doctor says.
This really hits the nail on the head for me. I was also thinking this morning that there are some really intelligent people/parents out there for whatever reason just DONT want to hear it. It's like you try to bring up the idea of questioning the dr and they either look at you like you're an alien or they get the look in their eyes that's reminiscent of a child putting their fingers in their ears and going "la la la la, i cant hear you".
post #191 of 433
Very true. My SIL whom I love dearly, will not hear of it. She just looks at me smiles and takes her dd to get vaxed. Shge told me it was to get her into school, but I informed her our state has all the exemps. She didn't care. Even when her dd stopped nursing for 2 days as a 6 month old, she didn't stop to question what was going on, she took her for the next round and the next, with the same reaction. And she is a great mama, but she will not even think to question her doctor about this one thing. She is AP all the way, organic diet, won't give her dd unnessary meds, etc, but that one thing... :

H
post #192 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by paisleypoet View Post
The problem with questioning vaccines is that you have to come out of the comfortable bubble you have been living in. It feels warm and safe in there to just trust everything the doctor says. You start to question other things as well. Who can you trust? But IMO it is better to live this way, to question everything and get the answers you need to make the decision that feels right in your heart. Even if it is hard to do. Even if everyone around you will think you are crazy.
I wonder if that's why all this was sooooo easy for me. I haven't trusted anyone in the medical profession since I was 6 and was sexually abused by a Pedi Urologist....I NEVER trusted a one of 'em again....not even my much loved midwives and Chiro..I still research and question EVERYTHING they say. I'll actually look out the window if they say, "isn't it a lovely day out?"

I read the threads here and read about people struggling with this decision...I think to myself..."easy...just stop"...I have trouble understanding why it's so hard to make this decision...maybe I should have been asking why it was so easy for me.
post #193 of 433
You know, Fyrestorm, it's always been easy for me to trust myself over doctors when it comes to my own health. I had no problem refusing what I considered excessive/unnecessary treatment of dysplasia when I was only 21. (I was right - it cleared up on its own.) I also had no problem refusing abx for pneumonia when I was 22.

It's just that when it's your children, it would be so much easier to trust someone else to have the answers. It would be easier to abdicate responsility, you know? For someone with your experience, I think it would obviously be completely different, but for the average person who hasn't had a traumatic experience, it's a lot different, kwim?
post #194 of 433
Just wanted to chime in that I am having a hard time deciding about vax and here is why-no flames please. I completely distrust our government, medical establishment, the phramaceudical co., and the FDA. I 100% believe that they distort facts and infor. The problem that I run into is that I am not a scientist or a researcher so when I read stats from a non-vax source I am as skeptical of that info as any other. Not because I think it is false but because I don't know how to really evaluate the legitamcy of any of the information. So when I try to talk to or read info from experts on either side I end up more confused. I know that there are many of you whose children who have been harmed by vax and I also know that there are children who have gotten VPD's and been harmed so from an emotional stand point it is just as hard to know what to do. For me, the more research I do the more confused I feel. I truely want to do the right thing but it really is hard from to discern the fact from the fiction in either argument. I also think that as parents we all look for things that validate the decisions we have made. Therefore if you choose to vax your children you are probably more likely to believe information that tells you that was the correct decision and visa-versa. Instinctively I feel that I do want to vax but both decisions feel very scary to me. It isn't because I don't want to be different or because I can't "take the heat" I will inevitably get for no-vaxing it is because some of the diseases actually do pose a threat and I live in an area where those diseases have actually shown up recently (ie. pertusis) and I just want to do the best thing possible.
post #195 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilysmama1124 View Post
Just wanted to chime in that I am having a hard time deciding about vax and here is why-no flames please. I completely distrust our government, medical establishment, the phramaceudical co., and the FDA. I 100% believe that they distort facts and infor. The problem that I run into is that I am not a scientist or a researcher so when I read stats from a non-vax source I am as skeptical of that info as any other. Not because I think it is false but because I don't know how to really evaluate the legitamcy of any of the information. So when I try to talk to or read info from experts on either side I end up more confused. I know that there are many of you whose children who have been harmed by vax and I also know that there are children who have gotten VPD's and been harmed so from an emotional stand point it is just as hard to know what to do. For me, the more research I do the more confused I feel. I truely want to do the right thing but it really is hard from to discern the fact from the fiction in either argument. I also think that as parents we all look for things that validate the decisions we have made. Therefore if you choose to vax your children you are probably more likely to believe information that tells you that was the correct decision and visa-versa. Instinctively I feel that I do want to vax but both decisions feel very scary to me. It isn't because I don't want to be different or because I can't "take the heat" I will inevitably get for no-vaxing it is because some of the diseases actually do pose a threat and I live in an area where those diseases have actually shown up recently (ie. pertusis) and I just want to do the best thing possible.
A good way to start is to fact check one thing.
For example, who told you that pertussis has shown up in your area recently?
post #196 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrestorm View Post
I read the threads here and read about people struggling with this decision...I think to myself..."easy...just stop"...I have trouble understanding why it's so hard to make this decision...maybe I should have been asking why it was so easy for me.
I struggled a tiny bit with our decision, but really - just a tiny bit and only with one or two of the illnesses (polio and tetanus, as they are the sticking points for many on this journey). Now I am in your shoes - can't see how it can be such a struggle. I see the anti-vax information that is easily available and it ALL makes sense to me.

I can certainly understand how people could get "stuck" on one or two of the illnesses, but MOST OF THEM ARE BENIGN in even relatively healthy children!! Of course there are the exceptions, but, and I don't have data here to back up my belief, but I believe the numbers of HEALTHY children having problems with an illness are far fewer than the numbers of children damaged by vaccines.
post #197 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammom View Post
I can certainly understand how people could get "stuck" on one or two of the illnesses, but MOST OF THEM ARE BENIGN in even relatively healthy children!! Of course there are the exceptions, but, and I don't have data here to back up my belief, but I believe the numbers of HEALTHY children having problems with an illness are far fewer than the numbers of children damaged by vaccines.
Very interesting point. There are a lot of very unhealthy children around now, although the infant mortality rate has improved a bit since the 1950s, when I was a child. For example, in my entire childhood, I can't remember ever hearing of an infant or child with an ear infection. Weird. In fact, when my daughter was a baby in the late 60s I don't recall hearing anyone talking about ear infections and I did hang out with other moms and infants occasionally. So what gives?

Asthma
severe, life threatening allergies
ADHD
autism
cancer in children
immune system problems
ear infections

The problem would be demonstrating that the heavy load of vaccines is THE factor that is causing most or some of the increase in chronic illness and behavioral stuff.
post #198 of 433
In 1993, when I was in America, there was a ghastly TV advertisement running, which had lots of children running in a playground, laughing and playing in the sun, and then they disappeared, it was black clouds, leaves, dark sky and the text said something like "If you don't vaccinate your children there will be no next generation."

I just couldn't believe it; and the ad was sponsorred by a medical association.

I often wondered just how many people believed that, and if they did, how they thought all their ancestors got to have children.
post #199 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
I often wondered just how many people believed that, and if they did, how they thought all their ancestors got to have children.
Things like that are still running on TV, you just don't watch anymore .

As for the ancestors, there is a current 'explanation' that sounds like the following: 'we are a vaccine-dependent generation. Because we were massively vaccinating for some deadly diseases for a couple generations, we do not have any other immunity than the vaccine-induced one. Unlike our ancestors, we can't rely on the natural immunity of those who survived the disease. There is no chance of surviving if we stop vaccinating'. There you have it - good news and bad news for the price of one :
post #200 of 433
I ususally hear that in past generations everyone was crippled, lost 15 babies each, and couldn't hear b/c of measles...

OK, I'm exaggerating, but only a little.


Isn't life better now...?? Can't even bring peanut butter sandwiches to schools because it will kill somebody.
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