What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers? - Page 12

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Yes, and this is exactly why, despite living her entire life without a polio vaccine and seeing her 13 surviving siblings doing the same thing, my grandmother feared that her own children might develop paralytic polio. When she was a kid, there wasn't a big media scare and they couldn't afford to sit around and listen to the radio anyway.

The scaremongering is even worse today with the amount of pharma television commericals and TV medical drama's (sponsored by pharma).

Today, you cannot go to bed without taking a sleep aid, if you get upset, you need to take Paxil, you cannot bring your newborns out of the house for the first time without getting shots (except for the ped's office ), Walgreens is open 24-hours a day because a fever must be medicated, a cough must be medicated and a runny nose must be medicated, children must sit in shopping carts with slipcovers around the cart, hand sanitizer must be in every jacket pocket, parents must now be vaccinated so they don't kill their children . . .

[mykdsmomy]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

.
Walgreens is open 24-hours a day because a fever must be medicated, a cough must be medicated and a runny nose must be medicated, children must sit in shopping carts with slipcovers around the cart, hand sanitizer must be in every jacket pocket, parents must now be vaccinated so they don't kill their children . . .

Well of COURSE. I mean, WHY would you allow your child to suffer needlessly when you can give them perfectly HARMLESS tylenol to make them feel better?? I mean isnt it just so cut and dry for parents? If you dont give your child cold medicine to make them feel better then you are a terribly negligent parent (that's the feeling I get from most people when I tell them to let the fever run it's course....I get looks like i'm insane and cruel)

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

If you dont give your child cold medicine to make them feel better then you are a terribly negligent parent (that's the feeling I get from most people when I tell them to let the fever run it's course....I get looks like i'm insane and cruel)

. . . and forget about talking to young parents about garlic oil almost immediately clearing up an ear infection WITHOUT a doctor's visit or medication.

Imagine that - a child with a temperature, screaming in pain in the middle of the night, holding his ear, screaming "my ear hurts" and then it's gone almost as soon as it came. No doctor visit, no Tylenol, no antibiotics, no late night ped phone call. Then waking up in the morning like nothing happened . . . and it was just garlic and oil.

The looks on people's faces is priceless . . . .

I've gotten a few, "yeah, but . . ." and they just stop and can't even respond. I'm like, "yeah, but what? But how did a mere parent get rid of an ear infection without (1) a doctor's visit; (2) medication; and (3) not a bit of worry?"

[bri276]

yep, my 84 yr old grandmother support me in not vaxing dd. her kids all had mumps and measles and while she said mumps was bad for them, she still supports the idea that it's much better for a child's immune system to get the illness than vax for it. I don't know where all these pro-vax elderly people are??? never met one.

[LongIsland]

Originally Posted by tiffer23

All the anti-vaxers I come across talk about how horrible it is that children die from vaccines, and I agree. But I find it equally as terrible that children are dying from these diseases.

Originally Posted by Plummeting

Yes, children in Africa

Exactly.

Let's take measles for instance. The few hundred people (ALL AGE GROUPS) in the United States who died of measles prior to the measles vaccine's introduction were VERY likely, VERY unhealthy (immunocompromised, heart, lung conditions, on steriod medication, etc.).

Measles was hardly a child killer just prior to the vaccine's introduction, let alone when halfway decent compliance to the (second) vaccine finally kicked in - the first measles vaccine was pulled b/c it sucked and caused a lot of reactions.

This is why the CDC needs to use WORLDWIDE mortality figures for VPD's in order to scaremonger parents into complying with the MMR recommendation. A fever and a rash doesn't sound all that scary unless children are dying of it.

So, not only does the CDC need to use worldwide mortality figures in order to get you to comply, but they conveniently leave out the reason why children in un/underdeveloped countries die of VPD's -- severe malnourishment and unsanitary, dense living conditions.

[RetroMom]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

The scaremongering is even worse today with the amount of pharma television commericals and TV medical drama's (sponsored by pharma).

Today, you cannot go to bed without taking a sleep aid, if you get upset, you need to take Paxil, you cannot bring your newborns out of the house for the first time without getting shots (except for the ped's office ), Walgreens is open 24-hours a day because a fever must be medicated, a cough must be medicated and a runny nose must be medicated, children must sit in shopping carts with slipcovers around the cart, hand sanitizer must be in every jacket pocket, parents must now be vaccinated so they don't kill their children . . .

It's just crazy, isn't it? Can't turn on the TV these days without being inundated with pharma commercials. I'm sick and tired of hearing, "Ask your Dr. if _____ is right for you. ______ is not for everyone, including people with this, this, this or that. Side effects may include blah, blah, blah, blah...." Amazes me how times I hear "serious and sometimes fatal side effects have occurred..." :
I can't help but also blame the media for the germ-a-phobia. They hype up every stinking outbreak of anything and make it sound like it's the end of the world and everyone will die. :
Furthermore...I'm really tired of being told what I must do to protect and/or ensure my children's safety--or even my own. I do have a brain, and I know how to use it!! I don't need some Dr., media giant, pharmacist, safety expert or anyone else to tell me what an awful person I am if I don't do exactly as they say. Why must we be continually dumbed down and expected to do as we're told without questioning anything.
I mentioned the falling out of bed statistic to my husband the other day, and he replied, "Well, next thing you know they'll be installing air bags on the floor..."
Ok, end of rant!!

[ndunn]

Oh ya, my 14 month old cousin just had the measles. She had a fever for a few hours, and a rash, that was about it. She isn't even breastfed!
It was so harmless.

[Deborah]

Read Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt. Three of his siblings die in the book. It is perfectly clear that they die from malnutrition, although yeah, they get sick and then they die. But healthy children living in decent conditions wouldn't have succumbed.

And in spite of the most horrendous living conditions and constant hunger, Frank's mom managed to bring up three children.

[Side note: I'm reading it because we have a discussion group series scheduled--all memoirs]

Just wanted to add that I remember having measles and I think mumps and I had chickenpox but it was before my memory kicked in. My mother grew up in the bad old days, born in 1918, so she had everything as did her siblings. My mother was anti-vax and didn't worry about us dying from normal childhood illnesses. And she didn't use fever reducers and she never took us to the doctor.

She was just fine with having an unvaxed great-granddaughter.

[Plummeting]

Originally Posted by RetroMom

I mentioned the falling out of bed statistic to my husband the other day, and he replied, "Well, next thing you know they'll be installing air bags on the floor..."

I forgot to say, since people are talking about the diseases they and the children they know have had, that I had mumps at age 3. Apparently it wasn't too traumatic, because I don't remember it, even though my first memory is at age 12 months when I was seriously burned. We remember traumatic events, so mumps couldn't have been bad for me or I'm pretty sure I would've remembered it. I remember chickenpox, which I got just a few months before mumps. I was vaccinated with the MMR, too, so I guess the mumps part hasn't been working so well for longer than they admit. DD has been exposed to mumps twice now, but she never got it. She did have pertussis at 5.5 months. No big deal for her.

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by LongIsland

. . . and forget about talking to young parents about garlic oil almost immediately clearing up an ear infection WITHOUT a doctor's visit or medication.

Imagine that - a child with a temperature, screaming in pain in the middle of the night, holding his ear, screaming "my ear hurts" and then it's gone almost as soon as it came. No doctor visit, no Tylenol, no antibiotics, no late night ped phone call. Then waking up in the morning like nothing happened . . . and it was just garlic and oil.

The looks on people's faces is priceless . . . .

I've gotten a few, "yeah, but . . ." and they just stop and can't even respond. I'm like, "yeah, but what? But how did a mere parent get rid of an ear infection without (1) a doctor's visit; (2) medication; and (3) not a bit of worry?"

Though in my case it took a drs visit to find out about the garlic oil to start with. And yep, cleared right up over the weekend. Also made me crave Italian for the better part of three days. Though I agree with the crossed eyes look, it's amazing how much it changes when I throw in the fact that my ped recommended it. Then all of a sudden it's ok.

[mamakay]

Originally Posted by uccomama

The lines for the polio vaccine were created by mass marketing fear tactics, in the same way the public are brainwashed now into vaccinating. The this kind of fear-based medicine was perfected back then.

This point is really one of the crucial ones with the whole vaccine issue.
Either history has been sort of revised to favor vaccines as saving the world, or it hasn't.
Do you see the same thing going on with chickenpox?
In 50 years, are people going to hear "The chickenpox vaccine is a victim of it's own success. People no longer remember the horrors of children stricken by the varicella virus, which killed over a hundred children a year and left countless others scarred, maimed, and brain damaged."

And the next generation of antivaxers are going to be told that THEY are the ones revising history. And the moms around who are choosing to vax for chickenpox NOW are going to be the ones saying "Oh...it was horrible...chickenpox was such a terrible disease".

[nichole]

Originally Posted by mamakay

In 50 years, are people going to hear "The chickenpox vaccine is a victim of it's own success. People no longer remember the horrors of children stricken by the varicella virus, which killed over a hundred children a year and left countless others scarred, maimed, and brain damaged."

[mamaofthree]

My MIL grew up in the prevax days and had all the illness. She has never even given it a thought. She never had a friend die or cousin (she only had a brother), no one she knew died of any of it and they all had it. Although she did get her kids vaxed due to the fact that she will do whatever any doctor tells her. : But when I told her my two youngest are not vaxed it didn't even phase her, because she can't say that the illness where bad. Was it uncomfortable? Yes, but they got through it.
Even my grandma had no bad memories (when she actually had memories) except for Scarelet fever. And that they don't even vax for (as it is strep )my dd had it and I was talking to my Gram, she about had a stroke when she found out.
So what is the ear and garlic oil? I wish I had known that when my dd was little. I was so uniformed back then (12 years ago!) she was on antibiotics all the damn time and even has some hearing loss.

H

[granolamomma]

Originally Posted by mamakay

This point is really one of the crucial ones with the whole vaccine issue.
Either history has been sort of revised to favor vaccines as saving the world, or it hasn't.
Do you see the same thing going on with chickenpox?
In 50 years, are people going to hear "The chickenpox vaccine is a victim of it's own success. People no longer remember the horrors of children stricken by the varicella virus, which killed over a hundred children a year and left countless others scarred, maimed, and brain damaged."

And the next generation of antivaxers are going to be told that THEY are the ones revising history. And the moms around who are choosing to vax for chickenpox NOW are going to be the ones saying "Oh...it was horrible...chickenpox was such a terrible disease".

I think my generation is by-and-large vaxed for those diseases that we are supposed to be scared of (M,M, and R, for instance), so I grew up with no personal experience or knowledge of them. They were mysterious-sounding scary things that you wouldn't think of not protecting yourself from.

And truthfully, after all my initial research I was still scared to take the no-vax plunge. But it was the Varicella vax that made me stop short in astonishment (and, most importantly, without fear). I mean, Chicken Pox? Seriously? I actually laughed in surprise when I first heard that. That seemed nearly as silly to me as if someone had told me that they had created a vax for teen acne or bullies. It was a part of my childhood, and I couldn't figure out why it needed a vax. Sure, it can become complicated in Shingles (which I had twice) but c'mon! A cold can eventually turn into pneumonia and kill someone, but there's no cold vax (yet).

I just don't understand how people don't logically see that if you are unhealthy when you catch something, of course you have a greater chance for complications. Duh. So focus on being healthy to begin with and the rest will take care of itself, imo.

[mamaofthree]

But aren't children now getting shingles when they didn't before because of the Vax? Or am I not remembering that correctly?

H

[mykdsmomy]

Originally Posted by granolamomma

A cold can eventually turn into pneumonia and kill someone, but there's no cold vax (yet).
.

OH, just you wait, sister....I betcha anything there's got to be some kind of cold virus vax in the works. I mean look at all the anti-viral stuff they have out now. "When you feel a cold coming on, take this anti viral med and you'll be back to work in no time" I truly believe the goal is to eventually avoid all illnesses because there will be no reason to be sick as long as the pharma companies keep spitting out stupid medications.....get it.....one gets sick, pharma sells them a med, that med makes them sick, pharma sells them another med for that illness and it keeps going til we're so far removed from the original cause of illness that we no longer put 2 and 2 together and realize it's pharma that's making us sick NOT VIRUSES/BACTERIA. (ok, stepping off my now)

[Stevie]

I have been "lectured" twice in the past two weeks by people because I mentioned not vaccinating.

The first was a business partner. We are in the business of selling vitamins and supplements. They work extremely well; neither my kids nor I have had a dose of Tylenol or any other OTC drug; and certainly not a Rx since I was introduced to this radical notion of health via good nutrition.
We have been sick; our products do a great job of helping our systems to push things through quickly. I trust our products because they work. I do not trust what does not, and has never, worked.
She, on the other hand, gasped and said "Oh, you MUST vaccinate!" I said, "No, we must NOT vaccinate." (said with a smile and in a loving tone)
"But your kids will die of a horrible disease!"
~Oh? which one?~
"well, all of them"
~I have done months worth of research on this subject and have come to the conclusion that my kids are not in danger from any disease. On the other hand, I have found a whole lot of evidence that vaccinating causes severe damage~
"No, no... you are wrong; the diseases are not there anymore because of the vaccines!"
~Really? Would you do me a favor and print out or email me the studies or graphs that show that? I would never endanger my kids and if you have information I haven't seen, I'd love to see it~

haven't heard from her yet.... incidently, another of our partners had a conversation similar to this with me a couple of years ago... she no longer vaxes her kids and is reading JALP now

The other lecture came last night from someone from our church. They insisted that all kids are different and must be treated individually. After asking me whether I thought their DD should be in all day kindergarden.
She had repeated antx for ear infecs as a baby and ended up with tubes. After the tubes, the doc refused to give them antx anymore because the infecs were now viral and not bacterial anymore :
She is vaxed for whatever the doc tells them to vax for, including flu vax... she is diagnosed with ADHD and is on Ritalin; they are considering increasing her dosage because her behavior hasn't improved. Teachers complain that she won't stay on task....
She is very difficult and inappropriate. I have been her "teacher" for an hour at a time on Sundays and yesterday she spent 5 hours with us. My challenging 3 year old is easy compared to her...
But her parents insisted that she needed all the vaxes and all the drugs. I very gently told them why I had stopped vaxing and the first red flag I got from their GP, but it was like they couldn't hear what I was saying (of course they get their shots like good little soldiers too)
I pointed out that neither of my kids has ever taken an antibiotic and I told them that DD had just "done" the flu in 16 hours total. They were appalled that I not only hadn't given her Tylenol but that I didn't even take her temp! I was just shaking my head! Why are they not hearing that she recovered in 16 hours instead of 16 days????

So my conclusion is that there has never been an impressive argument for vaccinating. I am totally open to hearing it; in fact, I am an extremely open minded person. It is just not forthcoming... stilll waiting

[mamakay]

So my conclusion is that there has never been an impressive argument for vaccinating. I am totally open to hearing it; in fact, I am an extremely open minded person. It is just not forthcoming... stilll waiting

Ok...what about this...

So, the polio virus might cause paralysis in one out of 1,000 kids.
Doesn't that still add up to a lot of people when you take into account the billions of people in the world?
Isn't eradicating polio a good thing?

[aira]

OK, I have been debating whether I wanted to address AG about her response to me...

I'm fairly sure I should just keep my mouth shut and let it speak for itself. But I'm tired and a my judgement is out the window.

Originally Posted by AikeaGuinea

Anti vaxers can laugh all they want about 15 babies dying and people being crippled but back then you should have seen the lines for the polio vaccines when they became available.

WTF is this? Yes, I'm laughing about babies dying and crippled people. MwaHahahahaha!!!!!!

Do you not see that this crap is the same arrogant (wannabe coersive) nonsense as the silliness that gets parents to pump their kids full of any and everything a doctor tells them to?


Is this all you have to support your opinions? Character assassination? WTG. Who needs facts to understand this topic when we can just be shamed into agreeing with you.

Originally Posted by AikeaGuinea

[An elderly woman] would shame you for the way you talk about these VPDs.

Old folks would shame me? If this BS can't, why do you think I'd be shamed by the elderly who all survived VPDs?

See, the thing is my family seems to have incredible longevity. Most folks on my mother's side have lived or are living well into their 90s and 100s. Just in case it's hard to calculate -they are not vaxed. So yes, I've actually had some actual contact with actual old people. : WTF? :

Originally Posted by AikeaGuinea

Many many tears were shed over children who contracted and died from VPDs, tears that parents nowadays do not have to shed because our children are all protected by vaccines and herd immunity.

How terribly insensitive and condescending to mothers who have lost kids to vaccine damage. Wow. I'm almost speechless - almost.

Now, an interesting tidbit about my family is that we didn't start having "bad genes" until the "lifesaving" vax program started for my mother's generation. It damn near killed my mother at age 29 who still suffers with chronic GBS, and I've had nothing but reactions and long-term trouble myself. But what could I know about tear shedding?! We have vaxes now so I don't have to shed any tears!

Why are the old folks in my family running circles around us young'uns??? They live in the same environmental factors, like air pollution and food additives in their SAD. Except for me, who eats organic macrobiotic.

I'll go see if I can convince my 92 y/o grandmother - who lives in my house - that she would've lived longer if she'd had all the vaccines given now. Maybe I can convince her to get "up to date" so she won't die. I dunno, though, she's told her doctor to shove off whenever he's tried to give her a flu or pneumavax. Don't think I'll have much luck.

.

[mamakay]

Maybe I can convince her to get "up to date" so she won't die. I dunno, though, she's told her doctor to shove off whenever he's tired to give her a flu or pneumavax.