or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Archives › Miscellaneous › Vaccinations Archives › How Do You Decide? › What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers? - Page 13

post #241 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikeaGuinea View Post
It breaks my heart when the anti-vax faction jokes around like this. Have you ever talked to someone who grew up in the 30's or 40's when these diseases were still around? Better yet, have you ever talked to an elderly woman who raised children during the days before the vaccination program started? They would shame you for the way you talk about these VPDs. Many many tears were shed over children who contracted and died from VPDs, tears that parents nowadays do not have to shed because our children are all protected by vaccines and herd immunity. My mother, who was born in 1947, told me how she and her brothers were not allowed to go to public events because they might get polio. In her small school alone there were 5 or 6 children who had leg braces from polio paralysis. And let's not attribute it to poor nutrition and sanitation because back then people ate a heck of a lot better than we do now. I wish everyone who is against vaccination and doesn't believe in the efficacy of vaccines would spend some time with a mother in her 70's or 80's if you want to hear what life was like for mothers and children before vaccines.

Anti vaxers can laugh all they want about 15 babies dying and people being crippled but back then you should have seen the lines for the polio vaccines when they became available.
My Father was born in 1912, and still is alive, and pretty much unvaccinated, to give us all gyp. My mother was born in 1924. My husband was born in 1932.

In my father's family the kids were born in India, China, Indonesia, Malaya, South Africa ~ many many countries which had epidemics, and you know what AikeaGuinea? My grandmother was the one who nursed Indian people through typhoid, Chinese through Cholera, the whole Island of Kawau through the 1918 flu; in fact, my father lost count of how many times, his mother and kitchenmaids set up hospitals.

She did get sick of typhoid herself and India, and lost her eldest daughter and son. Why? Because she was too sick to look after the children, and the way the locals looked after the children, killed them.

She was an incredible woman, who had great compassion, but who really knew how to nurse.

Never, even when the polio and diphtheria vaccines came out would she ever have considered using them. She believed that the body could do what it was supposed to do, if people knew how to deal with infections, and she certainly did. She was not a trained nurse, and in fact, held trained nurses in considerable scorn, which is unsurprising, if you knew how diphtheria was treated between 1900 - 1945. It was a wonder as many survived as did.

Do you KNOW how measles in the 20's and 30's was treated AikeaGuinea? I'll tell you.

Doctors used to withdraw 20 cc blood from a parent, and inject 10 cc into each buttock. Blood typing anyone?

There is a chapter in my book on useless treatments.

Now, I don't make light of death of any kind and never had.

But it is a shame when someone ticks others off, particularly if it would seem that the person doint the actually has no idea just how much the medical profession actually contributed to disabilities and deaths then, and now.

My father was in the second world war, and his older brother in the first world war. In both wars, if any of the soldiers got shot in the trenches they did their best to disguise the fact, because they knew that if they were taken back to the army hospitals, it would be very likely that they would get gangrene, and land up with amputations at best, and death at the worst.

Many of the wounded went bush with mates, rather than submit to anything the medics dreamed up.

And.. my father's brother, and the old vets here tell me the same thing. Their best friend, was not a nurse, or a doctor, but a committed mate with some maggots.

It's very instructive to have a good hard long look at medical history and realise that people today, may have a totally unrealistic view looking back... that of rose coloured propaganda glasses.

There were not lines for polio vaccines, amongst people who had understood, knew and respected Sister Kenny, and for those who had read Dr Benjamin Sandlers book on Polio and Diet and exactly why a diet of soda-pop, white flour and white sugar was part of the equation whereby polio went from being endemic to epidemic.

There is so so much more I could say, but I wonder what the point is in saying it.
post #242 of 433
read the rest of the thread and just had to respond to knowing someone old

My mother had a cousin who was one of the few who ended up with a bad case of polio. Lived in an iron lung for ages (years?) died in her 20s.... she told me that if I had seen her cousins' existence I would make sure my kids were vaxed for polio. Also carries on about how she and her brothers were not allowed around other people till the ground froze and school started again. I love the woman but she makes no kind of sense.

I asked how it was that with such a medical scourge as polio, her cousin was the only person she knew who ended up severley afflicted. I sympathized and gave my deepest regrets that the poor young woman had a miserable time, but how did her parents and siblings escape polio???????
How did she and her family escape serious polio complications since they were in close contact with the cousin just before she became ill????? How was it that no one else in her vicinity got even a mild case of polio if it was so dang contagious?????

So she tried to tell me that the polio "epidemic" in "that Amish" community proved that my kids should be vaccinated. Ummmmm, gee mom; you mean the people who never showed any clinical sign of the disease? I do believe I'd rather my DC chance that than ......oh say, the death that some kids experience shortly after their polio vaccines : Like I said, I love her, but she is irrational on the topic of polio because she was a direct victim of the scare tactics of the day.

Just like the current crop of people who insist I must vax my kids without showing me any evidence that it is better for them or for society at large... still waiting...
post #243 of 433
Would a healthy person stuck in an iron lung for years survive?
post #244 of 433
Too bad they didn't know about Sister Kenny. Her cousin might have lived a long happy life.

Oh wait, I'm supposed to laugh at her misery, according to some.

Well, I assure you I'm not. I'm very sorry she suffered.
post #245 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
Would a healthy person stuck in an iron lung for years survive?
What do you mean?
post #246 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
What do you mean?
Just what I asked. How do we know that the iron lungs didn't hurt/kill people as opposed to the disease?
post #247 of 433
Do you understand why they were using iron lungs?
post #248 of 433
Random comment....

I talked to my grandma (she's in her 70s) about not vaccinating my son yet (well, other than his 2m shots). She really didn't seem TOO worried. She was a little, just because she knows it's the norm to vax now. She said that her and her brother and a couple of her boys (my uncles) got mumps and did fine. It wasn't fun, but she said it wasn't any huge deal. Just really sore and uncomfortable. She DID say that everyone she knew got the whopping cough and it was BAD. She said if there was anything that could prevent that she would suggest getting it. Now, none of them died or anything. But she said that it was just the worst and she can remember throwing up and choking and not being able to breathe, etc. I told her that honestly, if there was anything to prevent it, I'd get that one for DS in a heartbeat. As it stands, the Pertussis is one of the LEAST effective vaccines out there and has one of the highest reaction rates. The risks of the vaccines are greater than the risks of whooping cough. But I am honestly terrified of that one. *sigh* DS gets a "bad cough" from a cold and I'm in tears. I can't imagine whooping cough.
post #249 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffer23 View Post
Random comment....

I talked to my grandma (she's in her 70s) about not vaccinating my son yet (well, other than his 2m shots). She really didn't seem TOO worried. She was a little, just because she knows it's the norm to vax now. She said that her and her brother and a couple of her boys (my uncles) got mumps and did fine. It wasn't fun, but she said it wasn't any huge deal. Just really sore and uncomfortable. She DID say that everyone she knew got the whopping cough and it was BAD. She said if there was anything that could prevent that she would suggest getting it. Now, none of them died or anything. But she said that it was just the worst and she can remember throwing up and choking and not being able to breathe, etc. I told her that honestly, if there was anything to prevent it, I'd get that one for DS in a heartbeat. As it stands, the Pertussis is one of the LEAST effective vaccines out there and has one of the highest reaction rates. The risks of the vaccines are greater than the risks of whooping cough. But I am honestly terrified of that one. *sigh* DS gets a "bad cough" from a cold and I'm in tears. I can't imagine whooping cough.

There's a bunch of old research on sodium ascorbate to treat whooping cough.
I'd be totally pro-WC vax if the thing was safe and worked, too. But it's really a joke.
Anyway, read up on sodium ascorbate.
And come to terms with the fact that everyone gets WC once or twice in their lives, vaxed or not. It's just a part of life. Mankind hasn't been able to outsmart nature so far on this one.
post #250 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamakay View Post
Do you understand why they were using iron lungs?
Yes, but they were inefficient, and were replaced. That's why they are rarely used.

It's one thing to provide the lungs with air, it's another to pressurize the entire body to squeeze air out and then depressurize it to pull air back in.

What does that do when you need to eat or drink, kwim?
post #251 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaInTheBoonies View Post
Yes, but they were inefficient, and were replaced. That's why they are rarely used.

It's one thing to provide the lungs with air, it's another to pressurize the entire body to squeeze air out and then depressurize it to pull air back in.

What does that do when you need to eat or drink, kwim?
Do you think they were putting children in there who weren't having problems breathing?
I have no idea where you're going with this.
I'm not seeing iron lungs (nevermind if they were imperfect) being used in the first place unless kids were getting paralyzed first.
post #252 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post
...the medical profession actually contributed to disabilities and deaths then, and now...
And this is exactly why anyone who wants to know how serious these diseases really were back then needs to talk to the people who were too poor to afford doctors. Those poor people were doing a lot better having their babies at home with the local lay midwife, treating illnesses with healthy doses of cod liver oil and homemade cider vinegar and letting their kids play in the fields all day than the more affluent folks could possibly have been, living in dirty cities and receiving useless treatments from their doctors.
post #253 of 433
Well, I think she means that the iron lungs by their nature are so... cruel?... extreme?... just plain ... that even a healthy person would be hard pressed to survive being in one well.

(ETA: Honestly I didn't mean that pun, and just noticed it myself.

I think that's what she's saying, but I don't want to speak for you, MITB.
post #254 of 433
I'm just chucking this out there, but MT makes a point about treatment as problem, and that seems very relevant to AG's comments.

People ask me about braces and iron lungs, and what do I know about 70 years ago, but it seems like modern medicine is a lot of crapshoots outside of mechanical repairs, considering the info on medical "mistakes" (oops, you're dead). I find it easy to imagine that medical treatment has always been like that (leeches, anyone).

Drs have succumbed to their own cult of personality, and are often willing to do a lot of damage before they admit that they don't know. I don't trust that I know all the facts with any piece of historical data, and when I read about the actual science of the vaccines, it sure sounds like voodoo. Piss off an immune system we don't understand very well, enough to make it shoot any future pathogens on sight?
post #255 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallacesmum View Post
Drs have succumbed to their own cult of personality

Hey, cool. I was just going to change my siggie to something to do with the whole cult of personality/mainstream mentality thing. I was thinking about it last night as I danced around acting goofy with DD while we played that song (one of my favorites of all time).
post #256 of 433
Living Colour, if I remember correctly?
post #257 of 433
Actually leeches and maggots are a good thing. I find it interesting that "modern" medicine is coming back to those. Although in a much more scientific way (ie not draining most of your blood LOL). But maggots are great for eating dead flesh and bringing good bloodflow back to the area (but to be honest I would need to have it covered, if I say maggots on me I am sure I would freak out! ) And leeches do help bring blood flow back to nerve damaged areas. I find that all very interesting... OK back to the regularly scheduled topic.

H
post #258 of 433
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamaofthree View Post
Actually leeches and maggots are a good thing. I find it interesting that "modern" medicine is coming back to those. Although in a much more scientific way (ie not draining most of your blood LOL). But maggots are great for eating dead flesh and bringing good bloodflow back to the area (but to be honest I would need to have it covered, if I say maggots on me I am sure I would freak out! ) And leeches do help bring blood flow back to nerve damaged areas. I find that all very interesting... OK back to the regularly scheduled topic.

H
Good point, I know that the lack of sanitation in old country hospitals that let flies/maggots abound is often a positive. I should have picked a better example. How about cranial drilling?
post #259 of 433
post #260 of 433
Cranial drilling! AGH! And they still do that too! : Scary stuff out there in the world I tell you.

H
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: How Do You Decide?
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Archives › Miscellaneous › Vaccinations Archives › How Do You Decide? › What are the biggest more impressive arguments for Pro vaxers?