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Strange question - rodent in house. How would you respond? (Yes this is spiritual.)

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
I realize this is kind of an odd question but it's weighing on my mind and I'm hoping for some imput.

I'm having a discussion with a friend about how to respond to this situation. I want to move the animal out of my house without harming it (my background is raised Catholic, now UU, practice/teach yoga). She says that is absolutely wrong and that I must destroy it because it invaded my house (she is raised Catholic but converted to Judaism as an adult).

She says that if I don't respond to this invader appropriately (by killing it) I will continue to have my home invaded by other more destructive energies.

I can kind of see her perspective -- and frankly it scares me a little to think she might be right -- but it's really causing me to struggle with my beliefs regarding my place in the web of all life and non-harming etc.

Not sure this makes any sense. I can clarify anything if needed. Appreciate any and all responses. Thanks!

~Erin
post #2 of 40
Funny you should mention that. I was just looking up animal "totems" and what they symbolize. If you look up "mouse totem" there are a number of links such as this:
http://www.linsdomain.com/totems/pages/mouse.htm

I'm not sure but this may be a part of some Native American spirituality.

As for the more practical day to day aspect of mice, I have found that being gentle with mice only leads them to reproduce quickly and then you have lots of mice. If you find a gentler way that would be wonderful but was not my experience.
post #3 of 40
personally, i trap and release. we provide a food source away from the house in some plant growth which can provide shelter. the food source is our compost area (it's not a bin, we live in a condo), which is surrounded by plants and bushes which can provide a good shelter for them if they dig it out (and they have).

we also protect and feed the neighborhood rabbits (which the neighborhood tries to poison each year), as well as many species of birds, including water fowl. technically, one shouldn't 'feed' them--but we put out a miniscule amount to encourage them to certain areas of our neighborhood where they're less likely to be disturbed and be disruptive such that the neighborhood will want to kill them.

we have a whole wetland area along one part of the neighborhood; we encourage most of the animals to go there and along the tree lines.

i would consider it morally/ethically inappropriate to kill a single or small gorup of animals who are seeking shelter in your home. but, it is appropriate when you have an infestation to do a combined approach.

when we have an infestation of ants, i bring in spiders and will utilize various deterants (peppermint oil along the entry points--it hurts their feet so they turn back), as well as kill if there is a large group. otherwise, i tend to simply remove the single ant and use deterants to keep them away.
post #4 of 40
This is why I keep a cat, no offence.

I hate having to go throught moral debates like this. You shouldn't needlessly kill, other then for food or life/death situation. And even though they carry all kinds of germs and nasties they are so freaking cute and fuzzy (I swear it's a self defence thing!), but in my oppinion the germ thing lands them in the fair game catagory if there are enough of them that they are getting into things dispite the cat. I've only had to deal with one infestation in my life and I think that where we were mad us prone to it in cold weather (there was a huge cement yard that butted up to our backyard) and that was bad for every mouse the cat caught, and we had two at the time who were great mousers, there were at least twenty more running around! It was *bad*.

here is another site with info on the spiritual side of the mouse as well. http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4076/index21.html
Mouse is on the top left of the page.
post #5 of 40
my husband is allergic to cats. but snakes are another alternative. if you're comfortable having a free roaming snake.

my friend's boa, lucy, keeps rodents down. although, she has a pet mouse. she apparently became attached to one of her feeder mice and now they have a free roaming snake who has a free roaming mouse as the snake's pet. yes, it's an odd couple, but they seem to like each other.

the snake seems to prefer raw chicken now.
post #6 of 40
Thread Starter 
Well...we actually think it might be a squirrel -- don't know if that changes things.

Quote:
This is why I keep a cat, no offence. I hate having to go throught moral debates like this.
post #7 of 40
I am with Zoebird on this one.
I am not going to needlessly kill an animal.
It is not "invading your house."
It is looking for food or warmth or whatever. It does not know it is your house.
Your friend seems to think there should be some sort of retribution or something.. just because the mouse had the audacity to disturb a human. But the mouse is not trying to do you harm.
Or squirrel.
Why should it be killed simply for being what it is?
post #8 of 40
Living in an area that has been overrun with mice....They die. Sorry. But mice are dirty and they don't stay away if you relocate them. If the world had it's natural system of checks and balances intact to keep the population in appropriate numbers I would say relocate. However that isn't the case so relocating is just perpetuating the problem.

However, I don't think of a mouse as an invader anymore than I do of a roach (and we live in the tropics so we do have them) or a spider. I would never think of a mouse as a destructive energy or even a negative one.
post #9 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah View Post
I am with Zoebird on this one.
I am not going to needlessly kill an animal.
It is not "invading your house."
It is looking for food or warmth or whatever. It does not know it is your house.
Your friend seems to think there should be some sort of retribution or something.. just because the mouse had the audacity to disturb a human. But the mouse is not trying to do you harm.
Or squirrel.
Why should it be killed simply for being what it is?
Her point was that the animal's energy had penetrated our home and was being destructive of our home (that is true...we have seen evidence of its destruction) and therefore needed to be destroyed or else larger, more destructive forces would be attracted to our home.

This person is a very spiritual person. I know that what she's saying does not have to do with the animal on a physical level but the energetic and spiritual reasons for it entering my home.

post #10 of 40
Naw, don't overthink this. Just capture the animal alive and relocate them somewhere outside that seems suitable.
post #11 of 40
well, the mice that i relocated to less than 3 feet from my front door haven't re-entered the house. actually, it was a single mouse that entered. we named him 'gus gus' and he hasn't been back in the house since we relocated him. neither has anyone in his family (there are about 8 mice living between 3 and 4 feet from our house in their little tunnels happliy scarfing down our compost scraps).

when they're dead, i bury them out in the wooded area near us. mama hel won't waste nothin'!

i have had raccoons living in my walls (another location) and squirrels as well as a big ravin we named 'monster raven.' the 'coon was a mama with babies. we had a wildlife rehabilitator remove them from the walls. three babies had died and they removed them as well. we buried those dead ones and the rehabilitator took the mama and babies to her facility. they were later released.

monster raven thought that the dryer vent would be a good place to hang out one winter, before we had a dryer. he then decided that it would be super-cool to expand his nest and so he started to peck away at the insulation and dry wall. we'd been hearing noises for a while, and we called the wildlife rehabilitator, thinking he was trapped. she said leave him be and he'll eventually find his way out.

we were surpized to come home one day to a hole in the drywall and monster raven sitting on our sofa cracking open pistachios and having a gay old time. LOL he looked at us like "what are you doing in my roomy abode?" and then we realized that he'd made a nest in the dryer vent and was seeking to expand.

my husband and he had an extended conversation about the merits of pistachios and of course, expanding one's dwelling as well as cohabitation, while i called the rehabilitator to ask for further advice. she recommended that we put some sort of mesh over the dryer vent opening (which we did), that we clean the vent thoroughly and patch the wall (we paid a professional), and that we simply open the front door to let him out.

while my husband and monster raven had their conversation and shared pistachios and tea (yes, the raven had some tea), i put some screening in the dryer vent (i had some left over from a repair job on a window screen--it was torn in the one spot, but too small for monster raven to get through). we then opened the door when they were finished with tea, pistachios, and conversation, and monster raven simply hopped right out the front door.

we then made arrangements to have the vent cleaned and the hole fixed (it was beyond our ability to repair).

monster raven visited us on a regular basis sometime afterwards. he knocked on our door, we would open it and he would hop in. we'd have tea and nuts and decent raven-centered conversation, and he would then go to the door and hop back out again when he was ready to go.

it should also be noted that he never pooped inside the house. kinda nice of him, i think. and, he never threatened october j (our house rabbit), though the j did keep a comfortable distance from monster raven.

monster raven hasn't been around in a while, but it is our hope that he is out and about with the ladies making mischievious baby ravens. if not, then mama hel lets nothin' go to waste. so we do not worry either way.

if it were a squirrel, i would still find a way to trap and release, and just let that be.
post #12 of 40
oh, and critters in my home usually means 'good energy' plus a combination of my own stupidity (leaving food out, having the dryer vent have a large opening, etc).

so, i consider monster raven to have been a blessing, as well as coons and mice and spiders and cock-a-roaches too. but, i'm going to do my best to keep them away and i only kill if they get out of hand.

the only ones who have gotten out of hand around here are ants.
post #13 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
well, the mice that i relocated to less than 3 feet from my front door haven't re-entered the house. actually, it was a single mouse that entered. we named him 'gus gus' and he hasn't been back in the house since we relocated him. neither has anyone in his family (there are about 8 mice living between 3 and 4 feet from our house in their little tunnels happliy scarfing down our compost scraps).

when they're dead, i bury them out in the wooded area near us. mama hel won't waste nothin'!

i have had raccoons living in my walls (another location) and squirrels as well as a big ravin we named 'monster raven.' the 'coon was a mama with babies. we had a wildlife rehabilitator remove them from the walls. three babies had died and they removed them as well. we buried those dead ones and the rehabilitator took the mama and babies to her facility. they were later released.

monster raven thought that the dryer vent would be a good place to hang out one winter, before we had a dryer. he then decided that it would be super-cool to expand his nest and so he started to peck away at the insulation and dry wall. we'd been hearing noises for a while, and we called the wildlife rehabilitator, thinking he was trapped. she said leave him be and he'll eventually find his way out.

we were surpized to come home one day to a hole in the drywall and monster raven sitting on our sofa cracking open pistachios and having a gay old time. LOL he looked at us like "what are you doing in my roomy abode?" and then we realized that he'd made a nest in the dryer vent and was seeking to expand.

my husband and he had an extended conversation about the merits of pistachios and of course, expanding one's dwelling as well as cohabitation, while i called the rehabilitator to ask for further advice. she recommended that we put some sort of mesh over the dryer vent opening (which we did), that we clean the vent thoroughly and patch the wall (we paid a professional), and that we simply open the front door to let him out.

while my husband and monster raven had their conversation and shared pistachios and tea (yes, the raven had some tea), i put some screening in the dryer vent (i had some left over from a repair job on a window screen--it was torn in the one spot, but too small for monster raven to get through). we then opened the door when they were finished with tea, pistachios, and conversation, and monster raven simply hopped right out the front door.

we then made arrangements to have the vent cleaned and the hole fixed (it was beyond our ability to repair).

monster raven visited us on a regular basis sometime afterwards. he knocked on our door, we would open it and he would hop in. we'd have tea and nuts and decent raven-centered conversation, and he would then go to the door and hop back out again when he was ready to go.

it should also be noted that he never pooped inside the house. kinda nice of him, i think. and, he never threatened october j (our house rabbit), though the j did keep a comfortable distance from monster raven.

monster raven hasn't been around in a while, but it is our hope that he is out and about with the ladies making mischievious baby ravens. if not, then mama hel lets nothin' go to waste. so we do not worry either way.

if it were a squirrel, i would still find a way to trap and release, and just let that be.
LOVED reading this. it resonates so much more with my heart than killing destructive energies.
post #14 of 40
When things like that happen....I look for the meaning in it, as someone mentioned. Animals come into our lives for a reason. Look at the reason and get rid of the reason so the rodent/squirrel can move on.

When I have had things like that happen, I have had a little talk with the Angel of Nature. I tell the angel that I love the animal and love the message it brings, but if the animal does not leave within a specific period of time, I must step in and remove it. Then I ask for the messages to come without the actual animal manifesting itself in my house.
post #15 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
monster raven thought that the dryer vent would be a good place to hang out one winter, before we had a dryer. he then decided that it would be super-cool to expand his nest and so he started to peck away at the insulation and dry wall. we'd been hearing noises for a while, and we called the wildlife rehabilitator, thinking he was trapped. she said leave him be and he'll eventually find his way out.

we were surpized to come home one day to a hole in the drywall and monster raven sitting on our sofa cracking open pistachios and having a gay old time. LOL he looked at us like "what are you doing in my roomy abode?" and then we realized that he'd made a nest in the dryer vent and was seeking to expand.

my husband and he had an extended conversation about the merits of pistachios and of course, expanding one's dwelling as well as cohabitation, while i called the rehabilitator to ask for further advice. she recommended that we put some sort of mesh over the dryer vent opening (which we did), that we clean the vent thoroughly and patch the wall (we paid a professional), and that we simply open the front door to let him out.

while my husband and monster raven had their conversation and shared pistachios and tea (yes, the raven had some tea), i put some screening in the dryer vent (i had some left over from a repair job on a window screen--it was torn in the one spot, but too small for monster raven to get through). we then opened the door when they were finished with tea, pistachios, and conversation, and monster raven simply hopped right out the front door.

we then made arrangements to have the vent cleaned and the hole fixed (it was beyond our ability to repair).

monster raven visited us on a regular basis sometime afterwards. he knocked on our door, we would open it and he would hop in. we'd have tea and nuts and decent raven-centered conversation, and he would then go to the door and hop back out again when he was ready to go.

it should also be noted that he never pooped inside the house. kinda nice of him, i think. and, he never threatened october j (our house rabbit), though the j did keep a comfortable distance from monster raven.

monster raven hasn't been around in a while, but it is our hope that he is out and about with the ladies making mischievious baby ravens. if not, then mama hel lets nothin' go to waste. so we do not worry either way.

if it were a squirrel, i would still find a way to trap and release, and just let that be.
*dies laughing* THAT is just priceless Thank you so much for sharing that, I really needed a good chuckle this morning Tell Monster Raven hi next time he pops around would ya?
post #16 of 40
I couldn't kill it. If it was just one, I'd try to trap it and let it go, or in some way encourage it to leave. If it was an infestation, I would get a cat and hope that it would scare away the little tribe of mice...or squirrels.
post #17 of 40
zoebird.. that rocked! Thank you and your dh for such kind loving hearts.


I try to always remember that we are sharing this earth and it is our responsibility to be respectful to all living things.

Mice do NOT have a negative energy.. they have a clear loving energy as all animals do no matter how feirce they may seem to us humans.
Getting the mouse out humanely is the best thing to do if it were me.

Unfortunately, my cat kills mice but that is also the balance of the natural world.


I wish you find a resolution that does not carry guilt in either direction. ( peaceful resulotion)
post #18 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmama View Post
Her point was that the animal's energy had penetrated our home and was being destructive of our home (that is true...we have seen evidence of its destruction) and therefore needed to be destroyed or else larger, more destructive forces would be attracted to our home.
But the animal is not purposefully trying to destroy your home. What he's instinctively doing to find food, shelter or warmth might also ruin your home, but the animal is not a destructive energy, imo. Just a squirrel. Or mouse, or wombat, or whatever. Doing his squirrelly thing.

Just as when as child draws on the wall with marker, they are not (usually) planfully thinking "I'm destroying someone else's property" - they're just doing what kids too.

I would redirect the critter by trapping and releasing it.
post #19 of 40
erin i love what you have done here. your conscience wasnt agreeing so you asked other mama's for help. you know like others have said - i welcome critters in my house. i grew up in asia so we always have critters in our apt. it came with the territory. and as i grew up and thought about spriritual things i loved sharing my home with them. one of my favourite childhood memories is of the geckos chattering at nigth on our walls. and of this one little mouse who every nigth at 11 pm would walk across the electric line in my bedroom (not hidden electric lines) and pass thru teh house. he was taking a short cut. i admired his guts because we also had cats. and i enjoyed his puntuality. my watch would be wrong but never him.

to me nothing is a 'pest'. i mean even cockroaches. : i know i know. i grew up with them. and seeing their history i cant help but marvel at them for surviving this long.

and personally today after watching 'over teh hedge' with my dd i can never hurt a squirrel. sorry.

i am also the kind who grew up questioning eating. so only animals hurt and plants dont. so i alway (or i try to) say thank you to teh plant for its sacrifice before i eat my food. people find me wierd and try to show science at me (mind u i have a science background too) but my inside doesnt accept it. so spiritually i have no qualms eating meat or my cat catching birds.

growing up in asia - one of my many teachings i have had which means a lot to me is to respect every thing. not just living but also non living things. everything has a soul and should not be disrespected. and when i grew older i agreed iwth it. and so i cant just throw or step on a book. it is there to teach me something and i need to pay respect to that.

ok now i am going way over and beyond the topic.

i do know in ur search for the right decision you will find a way that is right to you.

one last story before i end. we were housesitting my inlaws house. there was a mouse there who was getting into the stove and screwing something up. we tried rescuing it and tried all sorts of things but couldnt get to it. then my inlaws returned. and they got glue traps. of course they got the mouse. and put him in a plastic bag and threw him in the garbage. that incident happened what 7 years ago and it still haunts me. it still hurts my heart to think of it. to imagine this mouse just dying of hunger. if i was there i owuld have put him in teh freezer to speed things up. hypothermia si far less painful - except from the scare factor than starving to death. i have done quite a few mercy killings when i can see their injury is too great. i will not even use those glue trap thingys for flies.
post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah View Post
I am with Zoebird on this one.
I am not going to needlessly kill an animal.
It is not "invading your house."
It is looking for food or warmth or whatever. It does not know it is your house.
Your friend seems to think there should be some sort of retribution or something.. just because the mouse had the audacity to disturb a human. But the mouse is not trying to do you harm.
Or squirrel.
Why should it be killed simply for being what it is?
:

Your friend's approach sounds so vengeful--not something that is part of my spirituality. Self-defense, yes. Vengeance, no.
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