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Are mainstream SAHM more into cleaning? - Page 4

post #61 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by janerose View Post
Those "More Time Moms" calendars rock don't they? DH actually gets mine for me each year from a kiosk in our mall. Only problem is it doesn't come with all those neat Flylady stickers like the zones & stuff. Luckily I don't actually DO her zones anymore (morphed into my own routine) so I'm OK with just the holiday/special occasion stickers that come in the back of the calendar itself.

About the pit thing. Our garage is this way. My house is great. I've even got our back porch under control. But the garage is a total mess & I've just learned to live with it. We have an 800 sq ft house with no basement. 3/4 of the stuff in the garage is slated for our attic, but it just keeps not happening so there is sits.... Slowly driving me insane, but at least it's NOT all in my house!

Holly

I used the MTM calender for the past two years and have enough stickers from the back of the calender to last me through 2007 leftover. This is my first year really trying to do flylady, so I'm glad to have gotten that calender with the stickers for her program in it.
post #62 of 157
I think everyone (more or less) looks down on the 'other side' to feel better about theirs.

I have been in a very wide variety of people's homes. To be blunt, how clean they were had nothing to do with anything but personality and to some degree culture.

It's much easier to feel better about yourself if you view all crunchy people as dirty, or all mainstream people as being superficial. However, you can have someone who's mainstream and struggles with squalor and come ON do not even tell me that none of us has met a crunchy type who was obsessed with appearances (OMG no, don't bring that non-certified organic food into my house! OMG you wear underwear that's not organic hemp? Your privates are going to fall off and your soul will wither!).

I don't relate well to people who 'see' how to make things orderly and neat, because it's just...foreign to my ability. I was raised by parents with OCD who would get down on their hands and knees to scrub all the wood floors in the house if I opened a can of pop and there might have been one fizzle of a microscope pop droplet that fell on the floor to create a microscopic ring. (No, I'm not kidding, that literally happened, and while I can look back on it and laugh now, the guilt as a child was overwhelming.) Yet I am headblind to that, and have always struggled. I have friends who were raised in squalor who naturally keep themselves and their grown-up environment almost as clean as the one I grew up in.

I really hate it when these discussions turn into implications that anyone who does it differently than the speaker is bad, dirty, anal, neglectful, cold, or whatever. If you feel guilty about how your house is, then examine why that is and how/if you should change how you do things OR just shrug it off. Don't try and twist it around to make anyone who does things differently as inferior or less enlightened than you. If you don't feel guilty about how your house is, then if someone tries to shove it down your throat tell them to bugger off.

It's not a mainstream or a crunchy issue.

Unless you're talking about someone who obsessively fumigates their home with toxic chemicals to kill all traces of non-human life, in which case I wouldn't call them *mainstream* exactly, but they probably wouldn't fit into crunchy, no.
post #63 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle View Post
If his job is such a "cake" job, then perhaps he ought to wash a dish, fold some laundry and try to work on his marriage by helping his wife, instead of complaining to you.

Like I said on the other thread, maybe she has some problem with depression or is simply overwhelmed. I am also sure that knowing her hubby is comparing her with someone so "perfect" and knowing he complains about her is not a good thing either.
:

I just thought I'd chime in and say that who knows these people's ral situation. Appearances can be deceiving. I have a super messy house and I also can appear to not being doing anything half of the time, but in reality I have issues with depression and it is a struggle for me to stay up on house work. It is a struggle for me to do almost anything. My kid also watches too much TV (although it is my new yesra resolution to spend more one on one time with her playing games, etc.).

I do have a hard time with women judging other women based on the cleanliness of their house, or how much cooking they do, etc. etc.

Just remember that you can only see them from the outside, but you can't see them on the inside. No matter what you probably are not judging them based on what their reality actually is - only the way it appears to you from the bit of info. you have.


I'm the person who has to clear off the couch or chairs so people will have somewhere to sit when they come over. My mom came over today and she pulled a kitchen chair into the living room so she had somewhere to sit down. It really stinks and I really do want a cleaner house, but it just isn't that easy. (it is another one of my new years resolutions though )
post #64 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
However, you can have someone who's mainstream and struggles with squalor and come ON do not even tell me that none of us has met a crunchy type who was obsessed with appearances (OMG no, don't bring that non-certified organic food into my house! OMG you wear underwear that's not organic hemp? Your privates are going to fall off and your soul will wither!).
: laughup :

Oh man, I know people like this. I'm embarrassed to say that I used to be sort of like this. : I still had a messy house though I have mellowed thank goodness, so people can stand to be around me more, if they are not exactly like me - geez!
I still know people like this however, and now it just seems to me to be very silly and prejudice in a reverse sort of way
It still has the whole "I'm better and more enlightened than you" feel to it, and that stinks.

These days I am not concerned with any of that crap. It's not my favorite to have to brush food off someone's couch before I can sit down...but it'snot the end of the world either and I'm not going to judge them by it.
post #65 of 157
i haven't read all posts so i don't know if this has been said already, but i think whether you're mainstream or crunchy it just depends on what kind of person you are... high energy vs low energy, organized vs disorganized, etc. BUT i do think that those who are less tidy and crunchy don't always feel as bad about it as mainstreamers since their attitude toward parenting is more child centered, kwim? like maybe people who are more AP and also bad housekeepers just have less shame in there game. mainsteamers in general don't feel as comfortable using the excuse that their life is centered around their kids and the house is secondary.
post #66 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by YumaDoula View Post
Are mainstream SAHM more into cleaning ... or is it just the ones I know?
It's just the ones you know.
post #67 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by limabean View Post
It's just the ones you know.
post #68 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerchild View Post
I think everyone (more or less) looks down on the 'other side' to feel better about theirs.

I have been in a very wide variety of people's homes. To be blunt, how clean they were had nothing to do with anything but personality and to some degree culture.

It's much easier to feel better about yourself if you view all crunchy people as dirty, or all mainstream people as being superficial. However, you can have someone who's mainstream and struggles with squalor and come ON do not even tell me that none of us has met a crunchy type who was obsessed with appearances (OMG no, don't bring that non-certified organic food into my house! OMG you wear underwear that's not organic hemp? Your privates are going to fall off and your soul will wither!).

I don't relate well to people who 'see' how to make things orderly and neat, because it's just...foreign to my ability. I was raised by parents with OCD who would get down on their hands and knees to scrub all the wood floors in the house if I opened a can of pop and there might have been one fizzle of a microscope pop droplet that fell on the floor to create a microscopic ring. (No, I'm not kidding, that literally happened, and while I can look back on it and laugh now, the guilt as a child was overwhelming.) Yet I am headblind to that, and have always struggled. I have friends who were raised in squalor who naturally keep themselves and their grown-up environment almost as clean as the one I grew up in.

I really hate it when these discussions turn into implications that anyone who does it differently than the speaker is bad, dirty, anal, neglectful, cold, or whatever. If you feel guilty about how your house is, then examine why that is and how/if you should change how you do things OR just shrug it off. Don't try and twist it around to make anyone who does things differently as inferior or less enlightened than you. If you don't feel guilty about how your house is, then if someone tries to shove it down your throat tell them to bugger off.

It's not a mainstream or a crunchy issue.

Unless you're talking about someone who obsessively fumigates their home with toxic chemicals to kill all traces of non-human life, in which case I wouldn't call them *mainstream* exactly, but they probably wouldn't fit into crunchy, no.
Good post and good points.

One of the things I hate about MDC is the "mainstream" bashing. It comes in all forms, from subtle to outright.

So people raise their kids differently than you do. So what? Unless people are doing something illegal or dangerous (which is clearly wrong), what's the difference?

Lots of people here would probably bend over backwards to explain to their kids how culturally diverse the home life customs of Iceland and Nigeria are... but when some McMansion-living SUV-driving Sams-Club-shopping Americans live a little differently than the residents of Crunchy World, the derision is almost palpable.

Anyway, it seemed like we were veering into mainstream-bashing territory yet again with this thread. The PP's post made some good points on that topic.
post #69 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowansmomma View Post

But, like I said: For some it is about keeping up appearances, for others its just how they like to live.
Yup; no one sees my house.
post #70 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by judejude View Post

Just remember that you can only see them from the outside, but you can't see them on the inside. No matter what you probably are not judging them based on what their reality actually is - only the way it appears to you from the bit of info. you have.
There is a Berber expression (from Southern Morocco, Draa Valley region), which paraphrases as "You can tell a lazy woman by her clean house". When I inquired about the expression since it is nonsensical to me, I was told that in Berber culture, women are farmers and household laborers - they make most of their food from scratch, weave their own clothing, make things to sell in the markets, etc. The theory is that if a woman has time to waste on keeping her house clean, she is obviously not attending to her "real" work.

This conversation was taken in the context of a public health campaign to reduce Trachoma (an eye infection which leads to blindness). The campaign had a real challenge when encountering this attitude - women basically were being told to keep cleaner houses to avoid attracting flies (a main spreader of the trachoma virus) and to clean their children's faces several times a day - but this advice was directly contrary to the perceived values of the community over how a woman should spend her time.

Just an interesting tidbit.
post #71 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowansmomma View Post
That too! I have to vacuum often or the dog hair piles up!
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post #72 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaKat View Post
Good post and good points.

One of the things I hate about MDC is the "mainstream" bashing. It comes in all forms, from subtle to outright.
Especially since "mainstream" doesn't really exist IRL - outside of TV and films (and not really that consistant there, either) - people are much more varied than any shorthand definition gives them credit for.
post #73 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhang View Post
There is a Berber expression (from Southern Morocco, Draa Valley region), which paraphrases as "You can tell a lazy woman by her clean house". When I inquired about the expression since it is nonsensical to me, I was told that in Berber culture, women are farmers and household laborers - they make most of their food from scratch, weave their own clothing, make things to sell in the markets, etc. The theory is that if a woman has time to waste on keeping her house clean, she is obviously not attending to her "real" work.

This conversation was taken in the context of a public health campaign to reduce Trachoma (an eye infection which leads to blindness). The campaign had a real challenge when encountering this attitude - women basically were being told to keep cleaner houses to avoid attracting flies (a main spreader of the trachoma virus) and to clean their children's faces several times a day - but this advice was directly contrary to the perceived values of the community over how a woman should spend her time.

Just an interesting tidbit.

That is so fascinating! I would steal it for my signature but I'd probably get a bunch of cranky PMs from people who didn't read your post!

My house often starts out clean and gets tornado-fied within hours with cooking, toys, and my ongoing decluttering projects. I used to be very specific about how I wanted my house to look if we had visitors but I've relaxed my standards because I know I don't go to someone's house and judge them constantly on their cleanliness, and I assume my friends won't do the same to me!
post #74 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by siobhang View Post
There is a Berber expression (from Southern Morocco, Draa Valley region), which paraphrases as "You can tell a lazy woman by her clean house". When I inquired about the expression since it is nonsensical to me, I was told that in Berber culture, women are farmers and household laborers - they make most of their food from scratch, weave their own clothing, make things to sell in the markets, etc. The theory is that if a woman has time to waste on keeping her house clean, she is obviously not attending to her "real" work.

Just an interesting tidbit.
Wow! that is so interesting. I have a postcard with a picture of a 1950's house wife on it and it says "a clean house is a sign of a wasted life". (please don't attack me - you clean house people) Of course I only like this on my fridge because it helps me feel better about my pit of a house.

Anyway, it is interesting - the standards of, or whatever, of different cultures. My SIL is Brazilian and is moving here in the spring. Even if I pull my house together by then I will still feel self conscience. Everything is so dang clean there and they clean their houses so dang much I can't even believe it. On top of that she is a clean freak ( by their standards) and her family (who are super clean) make fun of how clean she is.
I guess all I can say is "welcome to america" She'll have to get used to it or at the very least she'll see that I am not the only one who doesn't clean everything as much as she's used to.
I do have to get my house together anyway though. She probably would gag if she had to eat at our house right now. I'm getting motivated though
post #75 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledzepplon View Post
If my house is messy or dirty, I seriously get grumpy and can't concentrate. It really makes me uneasy and it's harder for me to think clearly. There is also an element of "keeping appearances," though. I admit that I have thought to myself that I can't go to bed with a messy house because if I died in the middle of the night, the coroner people would come in my house and think, "Boy, she was a really messy person." It's absolutely crazy, but I do think that way.

I feel the same way. But I struggle to keep up with the chaos around my place. My toddler is very hyper and quite a terror at time. Love him to death but wow he can make a mess! He "helps" whenever i'm cleaning and well it just makes matters worse. I always thought as a SAHM I would be better at housekeeping but its the opposite. I can't chase my kids and keep the place spotless. I clean constantly yet its always a cluttered mess I deal with.
And I do like visiting other slightly messy moms so I see other moms have the same issue!
post #76 of 157
Wow, page 4 and no one has mentioned self-confidence as a possible factor in this?

I have the self-confidence to invite people over even when I didn't vacuum first. I had parties when our house was under construction. (Looking back on it, I can't believe I did that.)

And it takes a certain inner peace to sit in a dirty house and READ A BOOK.

Now, I'd like to have a cleaner house, but I grew up with a German mom, very hausfrau, and I refuse to be a slave to dirt and clutter. I love mom, but no way.
post #77 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literate View Post
Wow, page 4 and no one has mentioned self-confidence as a possible factor in this?

I have the self-confidence to invite people over even when I didn't vacuum first. I had parties when our house was under construction. (Looking back on it, I can't believe I did that.)
I don't think this is fair. We each have our own needs for order and our own tolerance for chaos, just as we have our own pain thresholds or varying needs for social interaction.

My stepmom is a pretty darn self-confident woman. She just absolutely needs order in her environment. Disorder stresses her out.

My best friend is also pretty darn self-confident but she actually NEEDS disorder in her environment - stemming from some issues she had growing up and privacy - but also because organizing things stresses her out and living in moderate disorder is less stressful for her.

Yes, if someone is tidying their house constantly because they are afraid of what the neighbors might think, sure there is a self-confidence element to it. But most of the posters on this thread have emphatically said that they would keep their house the way they do regardless of whether anyone else would ever see it.
post #78 of 157
I apologize for encroaching, I'm not really a SAHM, because I do work at home and part-time outside the home. But I noticed the title, so I hope I'll be forgiven.

I am mainstream compared to most here. Not compared to most mainstream, though.

I keep my house clean because I get depressed when my environment isn't clean. Once a bit of clutter builds up, I get overwhelmed and don't want to deal with it at all. But if I clean as I go, I find myself happier and more at ease.

Messiness grates on me, and I find it to be obtrusive. For me personally, I find my house peaceful when it's clean, chaotic when it's messy.

However, I can honestly say that I don't think a thing of anyone else's house if it's not tip top shape.

I had a roommate once who was an absolute slob. She was not only messy, but she was downright dirty. You can well imagine that I didnt last long living with her. Other factors were involved, also, but I just couldn't keep up with how absolutely slovenly she was. I worked 14 hour days, came home during my lunch to walk the dogs, etc. She wouldn't walk them, and they'd do their business on the floor of the apartment...

Ever since then, I've been even worse. I guess I was traumatized by it or something.
post #79 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Literate View Post
Wow, page 4 and no one has mentioned self-confidence as a possible factor in this?

I have the self-confidence to invite people over even when I didn't vacuum first. I had parties when our house was under construction. (Looking back on it, I can't believe I did that.)

And it takes a certain inner peace to sit in a dirty house and READ A BOOK.

Now, I'd like to have a cleaner house, but I grew up with a German mom, very hausfrau, and I refuse to be a slave to dirt and clutter. I love mom, but no way.
Some people truly find release and peace in the act of cleaning, as well. One of my dear friends uses it as a form of moving meditation, it's a part of her buddhist practice (though to be fair, she is a grandma now and doesn't have young children around 24/7).

Do you really think that only those who would rather read than clean have inner peace? Do you really think that the messier the house, the greater the self-confidence?

Let's be honest here.

I too invite folks over when my house isn't 'spotless'. And most of the time they could care less, they probably don't even notice. But the reason why I feel confident in having them over is because I love them. It's not because somehow letting go of cleaning has given me the boost I always wanted. They've nothing to do with one another. And I have gone to self-proclaimed 'neat freak' houses and felt warm and welcomed (because they were excellent hosts!). They weren't less confident or gracious just because they're better than me at organizing space and time or they have a housekeeper that comes more often or whatever.

I have felt welcome, warmed, and loved in all kinds of environments. I can think of a wide variety of women that I look up to because of their self-confidence and compassion and kindness that have a myriad of housekeeping styles.

Why imply that those who prefer order by nature are less confident than those who don't like or don't care about it? I've not found that to be the case.

Why assume that someone who does things differently than you is a slave like you feel your mother was?

Some are, some aren't. Just like some people who aren't naturally neat sit and read a book in their house because they are so overwhelmed that they have to unplug from their environment, not because they have true inner peace.
post #80 of 157
I seriously dont care about clutter but if its dirty, it must be cleaned.. but clutter is fine!! Id rather have fun with my kids and my kids are able to be kids instead of living in a sterile environment where the kids can only play with one toy at a time etc... My hubbys aunt (who is completely mainstream and thinks we are about as weird as they come) is constantly cleaning and her house is spotless (its kinda scary because you dont even know kids live there until you see the kids or go into the kids rooms.. HUH"!?!?!) I couldnt live like that. I have never seen her play with her kids because everytime I see her at her own house, shes cleaning.... and the kids are always in another room or at the daycare (yes, shes a SAHM but she also has even her 9 month old in daycare)
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