C-R-A-Z-Y News story - Page 5

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by blessed

What would you do if you were repeatedly contacted by an emotionally frail, dysfunctional women asking you to please take her children because - as you could well see for yourself - she was incapable of caring for them? What if you already knew and loved the children, and wanted desperately to see them safe? What if you knew in your heart that these children ought not be in this woman's custody, yet the only arrangement she would consider acceptable involved you taking over as custodial parent? What if every time you tried to walk away, she contacted you again and plead with you to reconsider?

I would offer some real help. I would take them indefinitely. and then when mom was healthy I would give them back. why would I keep them? I would do it if it were a family member, the loved one of a family member, or even the neighbor lady or someone from church. If she was talking about giving her children away, and was persistent about it and sounded serious i would call social services to see about some sort of counseling or temporary foster care or something. if i could afford it I would send help. i would not take no for an answer. but I am pushy like that. I really think the pastors wife etc should have been more forceful about her getting help. all kinds of help. just a nanny wouldn't cut it. She needed a full time care giver for the children, medical attention and psychiatric attention. she needed to get rid of her boyfriend (that is so messed up i can't even wrap my head around it. she is financially stable, successful, wants kids but she is seeing a guy who is absolute creep. but still won't break up with him. at what point in their relationship did she realize he didn't want kids? and why was she with him when he didn't want kids but she wanted to pursue it by extreme measures?)

Lets take a look at how they became the adoptive family

• they wanted a baby.
• the boyfriend wanted his girlfriend to get rid of the babies.
• she was intentionally led to people who did not have her or her babies best interests at heart (lets face it they had something huge to gain if their only offer to help was adoption rather than offering to help her get healthy) by her boyfriend whose own intentions were to ditch the kids. they had already caused him 9 months of grief.
• she called family for help when she was clearly not in her right mind. they did not offer her real help. there help was contingent on being able t keep the children.
• they took advantage even when they knew she wasn't sure, was sick, was not in her right mind. But the only reason they wanted to help is because it was their plan all along to get the babies. and maybe the boyfriend was the master mind behind all this and they really didn't have all the facts and thought she was on board.
• they hired a lawyer with a reputation for getting his way against the birth mothers wishes and went with an agency who had a reputation
• they forged documents
• conspired with the boyfriend (who is evil no mater how you slice it) to get the children. the boy friend who wasn't even related to the children.
• the boy friend kidnapped her so she couldn't go get her children.
  

no one really comes out smelling like roses here.

what I see is a woman unable to take care of her children. I can't believe I am saying but what a blessing it would have been if social services had come in and taken temporary custody of her children in foster care until she was able to make a rational decision.

this makes me think we need major reform in how adoptions are handled.

[blessed]

double post

Also, ETA: why is that dumb smirky face at the top of my posts :?

[blessed]

Originally Posted by lilyka

I would offer some real help. I would take them indefinitely. and then when mom was healthy I would give them back...

This was offered to her. She refused.

[*]they forged documents[*]conspired with the boyfriend (who is evil no mater how you slice it) to get the children. the boy friend who wasn't even related to the children.[*]the boy friend kidnapped her so she couldn't go get her children.

no one really comes out smelling like roses here.

From what I see, the contention about 'forged documents' boils down to Alison's statement that the second set of papers she signed did not have the date on them when she signed them. But the date of the signature has never been in contention and has nothing to do with anything. All parties agree about when the documents were signed, and it woudln't matter because the contract is binding from the moment of signature for infants in Florida. There is no waiting period for children under six months.

Besides, have you ever signed a legal document and not filled in the little line right next to your name that says 'date'? Whose fault is that? : That in no way consitutes 'fraud' on the part of the aparents, which is what would be required for the document to be voided.

And your version of 'the boyfriend kidnapped her so she couldn't get her kids' actually translates to the fact that he refused to drive her there, which was pretty reasonable. You're right - it would have been kidnapping alright, but on Alison's part, since the children were no longer legally hers at that point.

this makes me think we need major reform in how adoptions are handled.

Agreed. This is good for no one.

So, no one has addressed my question. How many times, for how long should a parent be allowed to reject their children before it becomes reasonable to place them in permanent, loving homes with parents who are consistent in their love and in their parenting? What are you proposing?

And to keep the facts straight, the children aren't just biologically unrelated to the boyfriend but also to Alison. They were conceived of donor egg and sperm.

[erin_d_a]

They were conceived of donor egg and sperm

where did you get this information? From everything I know, including friends of Allison, these are her biological children. I could be wrong on this, but I'm pretty sure these are her biological children.

She was NOT offered help by the Needhams her child's abductors.

How many times, for how long should a parent be allowed to reject their children before it becomes reasonable to place them in permanent, loving homes with parents who are consistent in their love and in their parenting?

This is FAR from the issue here. She was coerced and forced to sign papers while she was sick and weak. She made a mistake. The Needhams did everything in their power to pressure Allison into giving them her children. Her boyfriend did the same thing. She tried to overturn that mistake as quickly as she could. People can do some things when they are sick and weak and suffering from postpartum depression AND faced with a disgusting lawyer who is knowing for being unethical and coercive.
I'm actually surprised that there are people out there who can't understand that Allison has had her children stolen from her.

Beyond that the idea that birth parents are rejecting their children is sickening and wrong. Birth parents are NEVER rejecting their children, they are looking for something that they can't or don't think they can provide for their children.

[Kiernan]

Alison's own web site infers (though never explicity states) that the children were conceived using donor egg and sperm.

http://www.allisonquets.com/

Scroll down to "Ill Conceived or Miconception"?

I am the mother of a child conceived through donor eggs. My son and I do have a biological link due to the fact that I carried him and gave birth to him, but we do not have a genetic link.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by erin_d_a

She was NOT offered help by the Needhams her child's abductors...
...She was coerced and forced to sign papers while she was sick and weak. She made a mistake. The Needhams did everything in their power to pressure Allison into giving them her children...

The Needhams are under no obligation to sacrifice their time, energy, or finances to help other families raise children. Just like all the rest of us, they have their own lives to live.

Alison was negotiating with two families for the transfer of her childen. She chose the Needhams because they were agreeable with postplacement visitations.

Please clarify how Alison was coerced. She contacted the Needhams to arrange the meetings and negotiated a deal. When she couldn't get reimbursement for her IVF expenses, she negotiated with another family. She signed papers, not once, but twice. The first time she was allowed out of the contract because she remained ambivilent.

Birth parents are NEVER rejecting their children, they are looking for something that they can't or don't think they can provide for their children.

I'll accept that.

Another take on this is that a good family wanted children, saw children in need of a home, and followed correct legal channels for adoption. If you can stop referring to the aparents as 'the abductors', I'll be willing to stop saying Alison rejected the children.

[erin_d_a]

Please clarify how Alison was coerced. She contacted the Needhams to arrange the meetings and negotiated a deal. When she couldn't get reimbursement for her IVF expenses, she negotiated with another family. She signed papers, not once, but twice. The first time she was allowed out of the contract because she remained ambivilent.

She NEVER asked for a reimbursment for her IVF expenses, NOR negotiated with another family. I'm not sure where you are getting this false information. She was not allowed out of the contract because she was ambivelent but because she said she wasn't wanting to sign. Beyond that it was after EIGHT HOURS OF TORTURE that she signed the first time. Let me quote from her story
[QUOTE]Her boyfriend (not the father as they were in vitro) pressured her into giving them to his relatives with the promise that she would always be a part of their lives. His motive was to get the children out of the middle of his own relationship with Allison. Once the Needhams heard of the twins imminent birth they hounded Allison until they were born and showed up immediately at the hospital. After 6 weeks of trying to care for twins on her own in a completely malnutritioned and exhausted state Allison agreed to travel to Jacksonville and meet the Needhams at the office of their attorney Micheal Shorstein.

Her boyfriend drove her to Jacksonville and their hotel caught on fire so the night before the meeting she stood outside holding the twins all night. She was then held in Micheal Shorstein’s office for 8 hours trying to force her to sign the adoption papers. She called me (pastor’s wife) terrified as they had taken her babies and were trying to get the signed papers out of her hands and she did not want to hand them over. I told her to call 911, ask for her babies and leave without further conversation. She did call 911 and there is a tape of the call.[QUOTE]


She was coerced because she was sick, very very sick after her hard pregnancy and birth. her boyfriend pushed her to place her children for adoption, which she didn't want to do. She finally under fear that she was never going to recover agreed to meet with an adoption attorney. She tried to get her adoption papers back as soon as she signed them, which IS within her legal rights. She was denied. She tried to stop the adoption within twelve hours and was denied. How is any of this okay?
Any people who pursue an adoption over the express wishes of a biological parent so soon after relinquishment are abductors. I hate to see contested adoptions years later, but HOURS! That is sick babylust and abduction.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by erin_d_a

She was coerced because she was sick, very very sick after her hard pregnancy and birth. her boyfriend pushed her to place her children for adoption, which she didn't want to do. She finally under fear that she was never going to recover agreed to meet with an adoption attorney. She tried to get her adoption papers back as soon as she signed them, which IS within her legal rights. She was denied. She tried to stop the adoption within twelve hours and was denied. How is any of this okay?
Any people who pursue an adoption over the express wishes of a biological parent so soon after relinquishment are abductors. I hate to see contested adoptions years later, but HOURS! That is sick babylust and abduction.

She wasn't just sick, she was recovering from HG, until you've been though it its hard to understand how messed up your mind gets. I got it with both my girls and even I considered adoption fearing it would never end! I'm perfectly sane but while effected by the HG I was not competent to sign any legal documents and the lawyer and the baby stealer's KNEW she wasn't competent.

[the_lissa]

Yes!

I had hg. I considered adoption.

I considered abortion. I even called to inquire about abortion, and these were wanted pregnancies.

I often wished I was dead.

It takes a while to recover.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by the_lissa

Yes!

I had hg. I considered adoption.

I considered abortion. I even called to inquire about abortion, and these were wanted pregnancies.

I often wished I was dead.

It takes a while to recover.

You know what, I had totally forgotten I was seriously considering abortion for a bit too...

They need laws that prevent anyone suffering from HG from signing life altering documents for say 120 days after birth to give them time to recover and be protected from the vultures out there

[blessed]

Nancy Grace did a piece on this which interviewed parties for both sides.

It looks as though they had legal documents showing that Alison did ask for IVF reimbursement of 30k, that she did engage other couples in adoption negotiations. There are tapes from which she contacted the Needhams after the first contract fiasco, apologizing, stating her intentions to follow through with adoption and asking them to meet again.

A lot of this stuff was news even to Alison's best friend, who was one of the panelists.

http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0701/03/ng.01.html

[erin_d_a]

It looks as though they had legal documents showing that Alison did ask for IVF reimbursement of 30k, that she did engage other couples in adoption negotiations. There are tapes from which she contacted the Needhams after the first contract fiasco, apologizing, stating her intentions to follow through with adoption and asking them to meet again.

A lot of this stuff was news even to Alison's best friend, who was one of the panelists.

I understand much of this is falsified and has been thrown out of court because it isn't true. It was news to her best friend because it isn't true.

And I'm not sure that nancy grace is a good source.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by Satori

You know what, I had totally forgotten I was seriously considering abortion for a bit too...

They need laws that prevent anyone suffering from HG from signing life altering documents for say 120 days after birth to give them time to recover and be protected from the vultures out there

Please, I'm going to ask folks one more time to stop referring to adoptive parents in these disparaging, completely unfair characterizations.

I've seen absolutely nothing to ever suggest that the Needhams did anything other than negotiate in good faith with Alison, contract with her in accordance with accepted legal practice, and - quite frankly - act appropriately in removing the children from an unstable and unhealthy environment in which their mother, over a period of months, repetively demonstrated her intention not to parent them: proactively planning, arranging, and executing the permanent transfer of their care.

[blessed]

Originally Posted by erin_d_a

I understand much of this is falsified and has been thrown out of court because it isn't true. It was news to her best friend because it isn't true.

And I'm not sure that nancy grace is a good source.

Dear, so far you have been a well of misinformation.

Please posts some links to substantiate your contentions.

[the_lissa]

What did Satori say in that post that was offensive to adoptive parents?

[Starr]

Originally Posted by Satori

and the baby stealer's KNEW she wasn't competent.

Thats one...

[Starr]

Originally Posted by Satori

protected from the vultures out there

Thats two.

Adoptive parents are neither babye stealers nor vultures. I think a little common courtesy could be used on an adoption forum.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by Starr

Thats one...

Did I say ALL adoptive parents? No, I was referring to the Needhams.

[erin_d_a]

Dear, so far you have been a well of misinformation.

Really cause if you scroll back up I have proven you wrong and spewing mistruth over and over and over again.

However I will not be responding to you anymore. I have outed you and your mistruths several times, you cannot site any sources, I can, and even the sources you have quoted have come back to bite you so to speak. I am done with you. I don't have time.

[Satori]

Originally Posted by blessed

Please, I'm going to ask folks one more time to stop referring to adoptive parents in these disparaging, completely unfair characterizations.

I've seen absolutely nothing to ever suggest that the Needhams did anything other than negotiate in good faith with Alison, contract with her in accordance with accepted legal practice, and - quite frankly - act appropriately in removing the children from an unstable and unhealthy environment in which their mother, over a period of months, repetively demonstrated her intention not to parent them: proactively planning, arranging, and executing the permanent transfer of their care.

I was referring to making it against the law to protect the interests of HG sufferers in particular since they are a very high risk group to be taken advantage of. Maybe your being a little oversensitive?

You know, I'm an SMC just like Alison, I suffered horribly till the end with my first dd and even at the hospital there were people harassing me to give my baby up for adoption becasue I was so sick and out of it and couldn't possibly care for my baby. Had I been a bit closer to the edge I can easily see ME being the one on trial for the same thing. I was lucky enough that I had enough sense left in head my to throw the people out of my room (3 different couples approached me while I was prego trying to get me to give my dd up for adoption to give her a "proper home" with a mother and a father. Sorry if I don't think highly of those who badger sick single women who just need some extra help while they recover. HG sufferers are a radically different class of women when it comes to mental states during and shortly after birth and they should be protected from making any life altering decisions while effected and if you have a problem with that then maybe you need to look at your own motivations and why it bothers you.