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The eroticization of children. - Page 2

post #21 of 155
Interesting article. I'm reading it from my lonely branch though... which is common for me at MDC. My Dd plays with Bratz and Barbies. She listens to music with some mature content, and she wears "belly shirts".

See, my kids make their own clothing choices. They have tons of my opinion and guidance and what I might think about any particular item, but I have yet to ever say "You aren't allowed to wear that." I might say "Do you feel comfortable with this? Here are my thoughts..." or "That color is really cool. I am wondering if it's really an appropriate style to wear for xyz though. Do you think the see-thru thing is an issue or will you be cool with it there?" My 13 year old Dd does have some shirts that expose her belly (mostly warm weather attire), some short shorts, and some short skirts. She really likes to wear funky patterned tights and gloves, and she switches styles often going from emo/punky to pink and princessy to work out pants and a plain tee. Even in a short skirt and navel baring tank top I've not seen her look "hoochy". She also wears make-up including eyeliner, mascara, and lipstick.

Perhaps it's in the attitude. She's not really been about trying to get "boys" with her clothing choices. Ive never seen her "show off" her body. Ive only seen her experiment with clothing styles she likes that she feels good about. And I know she feels that way because we talk about it. On the other hand I have seen some girls her age and older that it seems are desperately longing for attention in their clothing and behavior. And both the kids and I have talked about that when we see it as well.

What I think it sometimes comes down to is a mix of things. Bodies and minds (although the minds are a bit behind sometimes I think) that are sexually maturing + a desire to be seen as something anything besides a "little kid" + not a lot of parental involvment outside of "bans" and rules = that girl gone wild feeling. While it's an issue that concerns me when I see it I don't think that every pre/teen girl that dresses that way, listens to that kind of music, or plays with Bratz & Barbie dolls has "gone wild". My Dd does all of those things, and she's a strong minded young woman who's not afraid to tell you what she thinks and why.
post #22 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post
I have a 13 year old, so a "middle-schooler". We're currently trying to find a dress for her to wear to my dad's wedding. It needs to be fairly dressy (not like a formal, but pretty nice), not white, and not "hoochie". We're also trying to for not-black, because it is traditionally considered verboten for weddings, although I hear that rule is changing so we may go with black, because 80% of the dresses we've found are black. We've been to at least a dozen stores, and have come up with squat, except for some dresses that look like something a 50-year old would wear. I want to find a nice, basic, party dress, where the boobs don't hang out and not slit up to mid thigh. This should not be so hard...

dar
How about this one: http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2912170?...origin=related

Also, do NOT worry about her wearing black. I bet 90 percent of the guests will be wearing black. The whole "verboten" thing is not just 'changing' it's OVER!

My 13 year old is wearing this in the largest kids size (16) to a wedding http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2909112?...origin=related

And my 11 y.o. is wearing this. The 13 y.o. tried on the size 16 and it was HUGE, so even if your dd doesn't normally wear this size it might fit. http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2904197?...origin=related
post #23 of 155
I've seen mini skirts in the TODDLERS section of stores. Size 2T, no kidding! I think it is absolutely disgusting that people would dress their little girls in these clothes. There are so many child predators out there that prey on innocent little children, why would anyone want to sexualize a small child and heighten the risk that she get molested by one of these sick people?

Tiny skirts or half shirts on young girls is not cute, it's creepy. Children grow up and develop and interest in sex far too early as it is, why would anyone want to rush this? I guess this all hits a sore spot with me because I was targeted by several sexual predators as a child. I just can't see why anyone would want to show off a young girl's body like that.
post #24 of 155
Dd is 11 and just rented the Bratz video game from the store. And OMG!!! I am actually really glad I let her rent it, against my initial instinct, because it gave us a real chance to talk about the effects of clothing choices, what I consider appropriate and why, that sort of thing. The characters in this game were literally wearing tiny little shorts that didn't even cover their backsides, underwear mascarading as skirts and shirts, and thigh-high boots. And don't even get me started on the whole school-girl-in-a-uniform with way too sexy stockings thing. It was absolutely vile.

What dd actually wears is jeans, long-sleeved shirts, long dressy skirts with sweaters in the winter, or layered camis and shirts so that no belly skin is exposed. A lot of it is about comfort -- she still likes climbing trees and riding her bike, which is pretty tough to do wearing a miniskirt and heels! She really does love fashion, and I shop with her to allow her to express her own style in a way that doesn't make her look hoochie-ish. I'm all about letting her pick lots of accessories! She has good taste in clothes and dresses very much like most of her friends -- conservative, but still in fashion. She isn't in public school, so I imagine that's a factor. But I still think the biggest factor is that we, as her parents, have talked about this since she was old enough to make choices about her clothes. Hopefully, as she grows, she'll be able to make good choices for herself.
post #25 of 155
I agree with the general sentiment against dressing little girls in miniskirts and the like, but I think this "making them vulnerable to predators" is a fallacy. Predators target those who appear vulnerable, not those who are dressed too "adult." They may target a girl because she seems to be screaming for attention through her revealing clothes but they are at least as likely also to target a girl who is dressed plainly and seems shy and mousy. They look for psychological vulnerability and you can't protect your child from predators in any way by dressing them modestly.

Edited because I snipped the wrong quote.
post #26 of 155
Quote:
I want to find a nice, basic, party dress, where the boobs don't hang out and not slit up to mid thigh. This should not be so hard...
My sister has always had to start *months* ahead to find decent clothing for her flute concerts and her graduation. She's very, very thin, and the stores seem to think that all thin girls want to look like catwalk models with very little on. :

She's found a good thrift store recently though, and generally manages to piece together some classy outfits, mostly skirts and sweater sets.
Actually, I've found our thrift store is the best place to get decent clothing--you just have to find a good one and visit regularly.
post #27 of 155
Here's a related article What’s Wrong With Cinderella? by PEGGY ORENSTEIN
Published: December 24, 2006 http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24/ma...rincess.t.html

Is there a place to post the entire article for those who aren't signed-in to "The New York Times" or for when it's archived?

In any case, the article is about the mother loosing it when once again there is a "Cinderella" them at the dentist office of all places. "Everything" is so gender specific. She does go into the issue of gender constancy, writing that until they’re about 6 or 7, children don’t realize that the sex they were born with is immutable. They believe that they have a choice: they can grow up to be either a mommy or a daddy. Some psychologists say that until permanency sets in kids embrace whatever stereotypes our culture presents, whether it’s piling on the most spangles or attacking one another with light sabers. What better way to assure that they’ll always remain themselves?... By not buying the Princess Pull-Ups, I may be inadvertently communicating that being female (to the extent that my daughter is able to understand it) is a bad thing.

Also, interestingly, pink used to be a "boys" color as it was a pastell version of red. Blue, found on the dresses of Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland and the Virgin Mary was the girly color. Every time I see commercials for all this mass marketed girl stuff I'm so glad we have a boy!

In any case, an intersting article somewhat related to the OP's article.
post #28 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
I agree with the general sentiment against dressing little girls in miniskirts and the like, but I think this "making them vulnerable to predators" is a fallacy. Predators target those who appear vulnerable, not those who are dressed too "adult." They may target a girl because she seems to be screaming for attention through her revealing clothes but they are at least as likely also to target a girl who is dressed plainly and seems shy and mousy. They look for psychological vulnerability and you can't protect your child from predators in any way by dressing them modestly.

Edited because I snipped the wrong quote.
post #29 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imvishta View Post
She does go into the issue of gender constancy, writing that until they’re about 6 or 7, children don’t realize that the sex they were born with is immutable. They believe that they have a choice: they can grow up to be either a mommy or a daddy. Some psychologists say that until permanency sets in kids embrace whatever stereotypes our culture presents, whether it’s piling on the most spangles or attacking one another with light sabers.
I think that was proven wrong with the tragedy of David Riemer and the countless numbers of intersex children who were "assigned" a gender they didn't identify with.
post #30 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by minkajane View Post
I think that was proven wrong with the tragedy of David Riemer and the countless numbers of intersex children who were "assigned" a gender they didn't identify with.

EXACTLY. That article is a bunch of bs when it comes to gender identity. Very very very young children "know" their gender (sometimes they even know they have been born the wrong one).

My in-laws tried to raise their boys and girl without gender sterotypes and it acutally created a fair amount of resentment.
post #31 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
How about this one: http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/2912170?...origin=related

Also, do NOT worry about her wearing black. I bet 90 percent of the guests will be wearing black. The whole "verboten" thing is not just 'changing' it's OVER!
That is really a cute dress! I love the style, and it would look good on Rain. Of course, the nearest Nordstrom is about 40 miles away, but we might get that desperate.

She's definitely out of kid sizes... probably a 11 or 13 in dresses. We keep finding cute stuff in kid sizes, and it sucks... but she's 5'8" and voluptuous...

dar
post #32 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post
That is really a cute dress! I love the style, and it would look good on Rain. Of course, the nearest Nordstrom is about 40 miles away, but we might get that desperate.

She's definitely out of kid sizes... probably a 11 or 13 in dresses. We keep finding cute stuff in kid sizes, and it sucks... but she's 5'8" and voluptuous...

dar
I had a feeling you'd like it! I have seen your dd's pictues on your blog, but didn't realize she was that tall! My 13 y.o. is 5 foot 4 but has the body (except at the bust) of a kid (no hips, concave tummy!) so she can still wear many kid's size 16's.
post #33 of 155
I really want to share this... I was so proud of my husband. This is his post (or a week or two ago) on a popular comic/gamer forum:
http://cad-forums.com/showthread.php?t=65525

and this is the response post he made:
http://cad-forums.com/showpost.php?p...3&postcount=37
post #34 of 155
this stuff is so scary...when i found out i was pregnant, i prayed for a boy because of how little girls are these days. i'm only 23 and i can't believe how much things have changed since i was in jr high...
post #35 of 155
Bratz make me sick, especially the baby ones. I have two little sisters-in-law who are 9 and 11. The 9-year-old loves Bratz and got a few for Christmas. Her mom knows why I hate them and respects the fact that I refuse to buy them, so she gave me alternate gift ideas.
post #36 of 155

You know what *I* don't get?

But they allow the culture of boy-toy sexuality to bore unchecked into their little ones’ ears and eyeballs, displacing their nimble and growing brains and impoverishing the sense of wider possibilities in life.
Why is it that this columnist (and so many other people) believe female sexuality is SO INCREDIBLY POWERFUL that any expression of it "displaces" everything else in a girl's life, "impoverishes" her, and prevents everyone else from seeing her as anything other than sexual??? Why is it that when preteen boys devote all their free time to sports and adopt a "tough" athletic attitude and act as if the entire fate of the universe hinges upon whether their team wins, hardly anyone frets that this is "displacing their nimble and growing brains and impoverishing the sense of wider possibilities in life," and hardly anyone perceives them as NOTHING BUT athletes? Why is it assumed that a retired athlete can have a second career but anyone who ever does a sexy dance will never be able to amount to anything?

That said, ITA that it's pathetic when people can't find the kind of clothing they need/want because stores are overrun with one particular type of fashion. Looking ahead to Little Boy sizes, I can see that there are plenty of clothes in SHAPES that are fine for my son to wear, but it's going to be tricky to find clothes that don't stereotype him as a soldier or athlete--you know, people who earn their living by selling things they can do with their bodies.
post #37 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacey2061 View Post
this stuff is so scary...when i found out i was pregnant, i prayed for a boy because of how little girls are these days. i'm only 23 and i can't believe how much things have changed since i was in jr high...
See now I don't think this helps! It's not "how girls are" it's how girls are being treated/encouraged to behave. And not wanting a daughter because of it...*sigh*
post #38 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
I've seen mini skirts in the TODDLERS section of stores. Size 2T, no kidding! I think it is absolutely disgusting that people would dress their little girls in these clothes.
Are you against mini skirts altogether, for anyone? Whom do you think might be the ideal mini-skirt wearer? I'm truly curious. A 13 year old wearing a short skirt is better than a toddler? Or maybe me, 32 and out of shape after having 2 children? My mom wears short skirts and dresses, and she's 54. (True fact.) Is that less disgusting?

My 2.5 year old daughter has what you'd probably call "mini-skirts." She wears them over her jeans and leggings. Nothing about her attire should call sexual attention to her toddler self.
post #39 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
But they allow the culture of boy-toy sexuality to bore unchecked into their little ones’ ears and eyeballs, displacing their nimble and growing brains and impoverishing the sense of wider possibilities in life.
Why is it that this columnist (and so many other people) believe female sexuality is SO INCREDIBLY POWERFUL that any expression of it "displaces" everything else in a girl's life, "impoverishes" her, and prevents everyone else from seeing her as anything other than sexual???
I get what you're saying, but...the columnist didn't say "female" sexuality. He explicitly said "boy-toy" sexuality. They're not the same thing, and that was part of his point, imo. I do not want my dd's ideas about sexuality to amount to "I'm wearing a thong and a ton of makeup, so I'm sexy". I think the boy-toy sexuality being discussed does deprive girls of a sense of wider possibilities - they're being taught to adhere to a narrow, rigid definition of female sexuality - and they're learning it young.
post #40 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
Are you against mini skirts altogether, for anyone? Whom do you think might be the ideal mini-skirt wearer? I'm truly curious. A 13 year old wearing a short skirt is better than a toddler? Or maybe me, 32 and out of shape after having 2 children? My mom wears short skirts and dresses, and she's 54. (True fact.) Is that less disgusting?

My 2.5 year old daughter has what you'd probably call "mini-skirts." She wears them over her jeans and leggings. Nothing about her attire should call sexual attention to her toddler self.
I am talking about mini skirts with nothing underneath. The kind of skirts that are so short that your bottom is visible. If an adult wants to wear a mini skirt then that is fine (and by adult I mean over 18 years old) but I would not feel comfortable with my child wearing a skirt that her bottom was visible in, or any other type of revealing clothing for that matter.

You are an adult and if you want to wear a mini skirt even though you are "out of shape" then nothing is wrong with that. Beauty comes in different shapes and sizes and I don't think it's disgusting for a larger or older woman to wear something that shows her body.

I personally would not wear a mini skirt for anyone other than my DP. I'm not the type that wants other people seeing my upper thighs or bottom. I'm not comfortable wearing any type of revealing clothing, I don't like the kind of attention it brings.
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