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The eroticization of children. - Page 3

post #41 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by BelgianSheepDog View Post
I agree with the general sentiment against dressing little girls in miniskirts and the like, but I think this "making them vulnerable to predators" is a fallacy. Predators target those who appear vulnerable, not those who are dressed too "adult."
But what about a case like Jon Benet Ramsey? Do you think she was targeted because of her vulnerability or because she appeared to be too adult? I think the fact that she was sexualized had a lot to do with her being targeted. I could be wrong.
post #42 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
But what about a case like Jon Benet Ramsey? Do you think she was targeted because of her vulnerability or because she appeared to be too adult? I think the fact that she was sexualized had a lot to do with her being targeted. I could be wrong.
de-lurking to say that ITA.
post #43 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
I am talking about mini skirts with nothing underneath. The kind of skirts that are so short that your bottom is visible. If an adult wants to wear a mini skirt then that is fine (and by adult I mean over 18 years old) but I would not feel comfortable with my child wearing a skirt that her bottom was visible in, or any other type of revealing clothing for that matter.
During the hot summer months, I have often taken my diaper-clad toddlers out in public with nothing more covering their bodies. I guess I don't see how it would be worse for my 2 year old to wear a short skirt over that diaper instead of nothing at all. Presumably, most young toddlers are wearing diapers under their clothes, so those size 2 skirts probably would not result in a view of the tush.
post #44 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
But what about a case like Jon Benet Ramsey? Do you think she was targeted because of her vulnerability or because she appeared to be too adult? I think the fact that she was sexualized had a lot to do with her being targeted. I could be wrong.
Who knows? Can't make a judgment on this, really, until we know who her murderer was. If for instance, it was actually someone in her family, then it would be quite a ddifferent story from what it would be if the murderer fits a profile like that of John Mark Karr.
post #45 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
During the hot summer months, I have often taken my diaper-clad toddlers out in public with nothing more covering their bodies. I guess I don't see how it would be worse for my 2 year old to wear a short skirt over that diaper instead of nothing at all. Presumably, most young toddlers are wearing diapers under their clothes, so those size 2 skirts probably would not result in a view of the tush.
I actually see these - toddler in only a diaper, and toddler in diaper plus miniskirt - as completely different. A toddler in a diaper is portraying a toddler...a small, juvenile person with no grasp of adult sexuality. A toddler in a miniskirt (depending on style..."miniskirt" is a vague term) is a small, juvenile person clad in a style that's designed to highlight and underscore adult sexuality.
post #46 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
During the hot summer months, I have often taken my diaper-clad toddlers out in public with nothing more covering their bodies. I guess I don't see how it would be worse for my 2 year old to wear a short skirt over that diaper instead of nothing at all. Presumably, most young toddlers are wearing diapers under their clothes, so those size 2 skirts probably would not result in a view of the tush.
I don't think it is sexualizing your child to let him or her wear just a diaper. My own son has gone out in just a diaper in the warmer weather. What I am referring to is dressing a young girl in provocative adult clothing. There is a big difference IMO.

I see what you're saying about the skirt over the diaper. I understand that your daughter's tush is not going to be visible when she is also wearing a diaper. My point is that I would not choose to dress my child in clothing that is used to be sexually provocative by adult woman. I don't think a skirt over jeans is sexually provocative. I do think a micro mini and a top that shows cleavage and/or belly is sexually provocative and inappropriate for young girls to be wearing. I am not opposed to all short skirts, I am opposed to young girls wearing clothing that shows too much skin and makes them look like mini strippers.

Obviously many people disagree with this or there wouldn't be such a market for these types of clothes.
post #47 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I actually see these - toddler in only a diaper, and toddler in diaper plus miniskirt - as completely different. A toddler in a diaper is portraying a toddler...a small, juvenile person with no grasp of adult sexuality. A toddler in a miniskirt (depending on style..."miniskirt" is a vague term) is a small, juvenile person clad in a style that's designed to highlight and underscore adult sexuality.
Interesting. I'd use it as a quick "cover-up" type thing if we're going from the park/beach into a store. Throw it ontop of the diaper with a quick tank top. My intention is not to highlight adult sexuality. But then again, even parents of those children who are dressed in what I might consider to be a sexy manner probably would disagree that they wanted to highlight and underscore adult sexuality. The clothing may cause some people to think of children in that way, but I am sure it isn't the intention of any parent to have their todddler looked upon as a sexual being. Or do you think it is? I can't imagine...
post #48 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imvishta
She does go into the issue of gender constancy, writing that until they’re about 6 or 7, children don’t realize that the sex they were born with is immutable. They believe that they have a choice: they can grow up to be either a mommy or a daddy. Some psychologists say that until permanency sets in kids embrace whatever stereotypes our culture presents, whether it’s piling on the most spangles or attacking one another with light sabers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by minkajane View Post
I think that was proven wrong with the tragedy of David Riemer and the countless numbers of intersex children who were "assigned" a gender they didn't identify with.
I don't think that's what the pp said. It didn't say that kids will permanently pick up whatever gender is handed to them. It says, "Some psychologists say that until permanency sets in kids embrace whatever stereotypes our culture presents...." I take that to mean that kids don't know/understand their gender until about that age. Not that a gender can be imposed upon a child. If gender could be imposed upon a child then there would be no transexuals...
post #49 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
but I am sure it isn't the intention of any parent to have their todddler looked upon as a sexual being. Or do you think it is? I can't imagine...
I actually watched a special on children and beauty pageants not too long ago and I have a hard time believing that some of those women are not trying to dress their child in a sexual or very adult way. I've seen children as young as 4 wearing full makeup, fake teeth, fake eyelashes, hair done up, heeled shoes, nylons, with bikinis on and body glitter. I'm not saying all pageant moms do this, but lots do.

I met a pageant mom a few months back at my son's pedi office and she was very proud of the fact that her 5 year old daughter looked like a 16 year old when done up. She had a book of pageant pictures she shared with me and there were some very provocative photos in it. I'm not positive, but I SWEAR she stuffed the chest in some of her daughter's outfits.
post #50 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
Interesting. I'd use it as a quick "cover-up" type thing if we're going from the park/beach into a store. Throw it ontop of the diaper with a quick tank top. My intention is not to highlight adult sexuality. But then again, even parents of those children who are dressed in what I might consider to be a sexy manner probably would disagree that they wanted to highlight and underscore adult sexuality. The clothing may cause some people to think of children in that way, but I am sure it isn't the intention of any parent to have their todddler looked upon as a sexual being. Or do you think it is? I can't imagine...
I don't think the parents mean it that way. But, that doesn't change the fact that a lot of clothes for young kids are styled like "sexy" adult clothes. I don't know if this applies to the miniskirts that you're talking about, because I haven't seen them. But...okay - our local big box grocery store sells kids clothes. About a year ago, they were carrying these fake fur jackets that I've only ever seen on streetwalkers...in size 3. I don't get that. I freely admit to having the fashion sense of a turnip, but I can't imagine clothing my child in togs that are strongly identified with prostitution...I just don't get that at all. These things sell, and I'm sure the parents aren't going "oh, how cute - little Janie can look like a hooker" - I just don't know what they are thinking, and I really don't understand the designers who make this stuff in the first place.

I've never felt that dressing little kids up in sexy clothes makes them a target for pedophiles...I don't pretend to understand how a pedophile thinks, but it just doesn't make sense to me that they'd be chasing after adult sexual symbols. I do think dressing little kids up in sexy clothes sends the kids a bad message.
post #51 of 155
My dd wears "miniskirts". They come down to her knees, though. And she wears shorts and tank tops in the summer. I never thought of them as "sexualizing" her, but rather that they are comfortable for the hot, humid summers we have. For me, they were never "sexual", they're functional.

As for regular wear, she usually just wears boots, jeans and a tshirt.

The major contention I have is seeing toddlers in miniskirts in the winter. I can understand in the summer; it's hot, sticky, and humid. But I'm not understanding this trend of miniskirts and skimpy tops in the winter. I can't grasp the concept.
post #52 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

I've never felt that dressing little kids up in sexy clothes makes them a target for pedophiles...I don't pretend to understand how a pedophile thinks, but it just doesn't make sense to me that they'd be chasing after adult sexual symbols. I do think dressing little kids up in sexy clothes sends the kids a bad message.

I don't know....dressing little kids up in sexy outfits may not 'make' them a target for pedophiles, and yet I am inclined to think that it contributes to an objectification of children in a way that might appeal to a pedophile. (I don't pretend to understand the disgusting inner-world of a pedophile either)
post #53 of 155
I encourage my children to dress in clothes that make them look like . . . children. Not because I think that sexy clothing will attract pedophiles, but because I think dressing in revealing/sexy clothing encourages girls to think of themselves in those terms long before they are ready. Not saying this well, but hopefully someone knows what I mean!

When I go out with dh and want to feel "sexy", I dress in different clothes than when we are hanging out in the yard together. Dressing up, with full makeup, nylons and whatever, makes me personally act in a sexier way (not vulgar, just appropriately sexy with my husband). For the same reasons, I want dd to dress in clothes that reflect her purpose. When we go to church, we wear nice clothes out of respect. When we go hiking, we wear appropriate outdoor clothes for comfort and safety. Since there are no conditions under which her purpose, at age 11, could be reflected in provocative clothes, then she needn't wear them.
post #54 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redifer View Post
My dd wears "miniskirts". They come down to her knees, though. And she wears shorts and tank tops in the summer. I never thought of them as "sexualizing" her, but rather that they are comfortable for the hot, humid summers we have. For me, they were never "sexual", they're functional.

As for regular wear, she usually just wears boots, jeans and a tshirt.

The major contention I have is seeing toddlers in miniskirts in the winter. I can understand in the summer; it's hot, sticky, and humid. But I'm not understanding this trend of miniskirts and skimpy tops in the winter. I can't grasp the concept.
If your dd's skirts are coming down to her knees, I doubt that they're what I'm visualizing. I may be making my comments based on an erroneous assumption about what is meant by "miniskirt" in this context.

I also don't have a real problem with bellies showing. My sister and I wore two-piece swimsuits when we were little. They weren't even a little bit sexy in style - but they were very practical when we were soaking wet from swimming and needed to use a bathroom.
post #55 of 155
I think everyone has different ideas about what a mini skirt actually is. My Dd wears skirts like these:
Black skirt

denim mini

Denim dark

Camo mini

Sometimes she might wear tights or leggings or shorts under them. Sometimes not- especially in the spring and summer. I don't think she is being sexualized. As a teen girl she is a sexual being with or without the mini skirt. She is not sexually active with other people yet, but she is a sexual being on her own. I think she has a right to wear a skirt without being cast right into the role of "hoochie". She is more than a skirt and more than sexual. She's you know... a whole person.
post #56 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
If your dd's skirts are coming down to her knees, I doubt that they're what I'm visualizing. I may be making my comments based on an erroneous assumption about what is meant by "miniskirt" in this context.
Same here. When I say "miniskirt" I am referring to the type of skirt Britney Spears wore in her school girl video, it was probably about 5 inches long at most. It showed her upper thighs.

IMO any skirt that comes to mid-thigh or longer is not considered a "miniskirt".
post #57 of 155
Eh, when I was in middle school I loved midriffs (I think what we call belly shirts now) and mini skirts - although not together. I did have some standards! We were also doing big hair and *shudder* rainbow eyeshadow.

I was a nerdy tomboy. Kinda still am. And I still love short skirts, only I wear them with heels now. Theoretically, because these days I don't go anywhere worth dressing up for.

My mom is prudish and uptight, but she got married in an ultra mini-skirt dress that was the fashion at the time. It didn't turn her into a wanton reckless woman of sin. I'm still waiting for her to lighten up.

I can't say I relate to the current fashion, but my parents couldn't relate to mine, and their parents couldn't relate to theirs. Every generation goes through this angst.

The forces of marketing and big business are around us CONSTANTLY. Not only in clothes. I'm hoping to raise a kid who is aware of marketing tactics, is media savy and a critical thinker. If she chooses to wear awful clothing while doing those things, so be it. (Yes, awful was tongue in cheek. Awful to me).

Bratz may be "hoochie," but Barbie was a German hooker and the innocent sweet baby dolls are based on the idea that little girls should grow up to be mommies. Period. Any gendered toy has a bunch of crap behind it. I don't think we need to throw out the toys - we can keep the toys, and teach our children to examine the messages society bombards us with.

Sniff. Can't believe you're putting down my beloved mini skirts.
post #58 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechen View Post
Bratz may be "hoochie," but Barbie was a German hooker and the innocent sweet baby dolls are based on the idea that little girls should grow up to be mommies. Period. Any gendered toy has a bunch of crap behind it. I don't think we need to throw out the toys - we can keep the toys, and teach our children to examine the messages society bombards us with.
Amen to all of that!
post #59 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
Interesting. I'd use it as a quick "cover-up" type thing if we're going from the park/beach into a store. Throw it ontop of the diaper with a quick tank top. My intention is not to highlight adult sexuality. But then again, even parents of those children who are dressed in what I might consider to be a sexy manner probably would disagree that they wanted to highlight and underscore adult sexuality. The clothing may cause some people to think of children in that way, but I am sure it isn't the intention of any parent to have their todddler looked upon as a sexual being. Or do you think it is? I can't imagine...
I think the issue with mini-skirts or toddler clothing is that they are sometimes small replicas of adult clothing. When there are patterns, fabric that are in little girl styles - be it short or otherwise, that seems fine. When there are clothes that are made just like adult clothes but in smaller sizes, I think that is inappropriate. Why do little girls need to have on halter tops that show the belly? It disgusts me to see 3-4 year olds in these type of clothes. But I grew up in a family/community where 15/16 is the age for makeup, etc.
post #60 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
I think everyone has different ideas about what a mini skirt actually is. My Dd wears skirts like these:

Sometimes she might wear tights or leggings or shorts under them. Sometimes not- especially in the spring and summer. I don't think she is being sexualized. As a teen girl she is a sexual being with or without the mini skirt. She is not sexually active with other people yet, but she is a sexual being on her own. I think she has a right to wear a skirt without being cast right into the role of "hoochie".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dechen
Eh, when I was in middle school I loved midriffs (I think what we call belly shirts now) and mini skirts - although not together. I did have some standards! We were also doing big hair and *shudder* rainbow eyeshadow.
Neither of these issues have anything to do with what I'm talking about at all. I wore some outrageous clothes when I was middle-school age, and continued to do so throughout my teens. I was struggling with my own sexuality and sexual identity and trying to find a way to express it. Like many teenagers, I went overboard.

I'm not talking about middle school or high school girls. I'm talking about little kids being dressed up like streetwalkers. It's not necessary. I think it's unhealthy. I don't understand why anybody does it.
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