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The eroticization of children. - Page 5

post #81 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by aywilkes View Post
Teenagers that I see on a regular basis still wear shirts showing their midriff or belly - and in December too! At least in the DC metro and Chicagoland areas.

My guess is that you will see less and less of this in the next year or so. We live in a very trendy area and then the trends spread. The more pricey "trendy" stores like Abercrombie were very into the belly bearing stuff a few years ago. Now only long is in.
post #82 of 155
maya that's so true ~~ every "trendy" place i look now all has the "tunic" stuff ... the longer thermals ... and the babydoll dresses covered by sweaters and layered over leggings / "skinny jeans" / etc....
post #83 of 155
Yea, same here Maya. Long long long shirts. (Which is great for being pregnant, because I can just shop the clearance rack instead of specialty maternity stores!). And I haven't seen any belly-baring here for about a year or two, as the lengths on shirts have been slowly getting longer and longer.

What bothers me, is that if I decide to wear certain fashions (miniskirts, high heels, tanks, whathaveyou), my younger SIL (13) decides she can wear the same thing. She uses me as an excuse to do so. To which I have explained to her mother numerous times: I am an adult. I can wear what I so choose (which is most often jeans and a men's undershirt). There's a big difference in a 22 year old deciding to wear a miniskirt in the summer when it's 104 degrees and a 13 year old wearing an even-shorter miniskirt in the fall when it's 40 degrees!
post #84 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
I honestly think it is more apropriate for a very young girl to be topless than to be wearing a short halter top that bares her belly. A topless little girl looks like a little girl, a little girl in a short halter top looks like a mini teenager.
Personally, I feel that both should be acceptable. Unfortunately, we get more "looks" from people in public places (particularly indoors-- naked babes seem more accepted at the beach/lake/outdoor parties) and while I shouldn't care about those glances, I also think I probably shouldn't put my young daughter in a position where people are staring at her. And for now, at least in my area, no one bats an eye at her in a short skirt or halter. In the summer, that is.

Unrelated to the above, but still related to this thread...I teach fourth graders at a public school here in CT. I do have one girl in my class who's been wearing spaghetti straps and short-short skirts this winter (not that we've had much of a winter). She happens to have rather serious sensory issues (as well as other challenges in life) and LOVE feeling the cold on her skin, at recess especially. She will not wear a jacket or coat over her sleeveless top as much as I try to encourage it. Other teachers have made remarks about her attire, and even about her parents, "How can they let her out of the house..." "Why would anyone buy a 9 year old those clothes?" Once I explain that her parents feel lucky they are even able to get her to come to school at all, they changee their tune. Maybe most pre-teen girls who dress in "slutty" clothes do so for the attention, or to fit in with their peers, but not all.
post #85 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redifer View Post

What bothers me, is that if I decide to wear certain fashions (miniskirts, high heels, tanks, whathaveyou), my younger SIL (13) decides she can wear the same thing. She uses me as an excuse to do so. To which I have explained to her mother numerous times: I am an adult. I can wear what I so choose (which is most often jeans and a men's undershirt). There's a big difference in a 22 year old deciding to wear a miniskirt in the summer when it's 104 degrees and a 13 year old wearing an even-shorter miniskirt in the fall when it's 40 degrees!

See this is what makes me so different here...especially in these kinds of conversations. I think that a 13 year old should be able to wear the things she likes to just like a 22 year old should.
post #86 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post

See this is what makes me so different here...especially in these kinds of conversations. I think that a 13 year old should be able to wear the things she likes to just like a 22 year old should.
The difference being that a 22yo may want the kind of attention that wearing 'adult' clothing often brings, and be better at dealing with it, than a 13 yo would. IMHO.
post #87 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post

See this is what makes me so different here...especially in these kinds of conversations. I think that a 13 year old should be able to wear the things she likes to just like a 22 year old should.
do you think a 13 yr. old should be able to decide to wear the low cut jeans and a thong that shows constantly - and shows even more when she's bending over? This is a serious - not smart alecky question.
There are 22 yr. olds that do it and imo it is a form of disrespecting themselves and trying to get attention from males. So, should a 13 yr. old have the freedom to choose to dress that way too? I see teenagers wearing their clothes and showing off thongs like this all the time.

I guess for me 13 is not grown - and they are not earning money to buy clothes and should still be receiving guidance from parents. So - some things are just gonna be off limits. That said - I'm almost 30 and did get to wear short skirts/dresses in high school - they weren't as short as they are now though. I also knew that I loved the attention from boys that I got when I wore that stuff too. I don't think it is just the clothing - it is the clothing and the reasoning for wearing that clothing and the way a person carries herself. I don't think I or most of my friends ever looked like sluts when out and we wore short skirts/dresses/fitted clothing, but we also didn't dance gyrating with guys and just had a different air about ourselves. However, there are some girls that wear stuff and give off vibrations that say easy/available/ready.
post #88 of 155
Exactly, lolaloa. I wear those kinds of things for ME, not to draw attention from random men. Kind of a "taking back my sexuality" type deal. I wear them because, instead of making me "prey", or a visual buffet, I feel empowered, and strong.

However, the reason behind my 13 year SIL is not for those reasons. She wants male, and worse, OLDER male attention. She wants older men to find her "sexy". This, I have a major issue with.
post #89 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by aywilkes View Post
do you think a 13 yr. old should be able to decide to wear the low cut jeans and a thong that shows constantly - and shows even more when she's bending over? This is a serious - not smart alecky question.
There are 22 yr. olds that do it and imo it is a form of disrespecting themselves and trying to get attention from males. So, should a 13 yr. old have the freedom to choose to dress that way too? I see teenagers wearing their clothes and showing off thongs like this all the time.

I guess for me 13 is not grown - and they are not earning money to buy clothes and should still be receiving guidance from parents.
Parental guidance comes in many forms. If a parent (like UnschoolnMa) gives her child the responsibility of choosing what she would like to wear, it is also possible that said parent points out what can happen when her child makes a choice to wear revealing clothing. It is quite likely that a 13 year old wouldn't like attention from adult males. I know that at 13, I would not have. I might have chosen to wear really short skirts and low-cut tops because my friends wore them, or because the windows of my favorite stores displayed them...but NOT because I wanted attention from boys and men. If my parent had "guided" me by pointing out that, hey, when you wear that outfit and walk around town, men are looking at you, I can guarantee I would have thought twice about the outfit! And, in the instance that the young girl thinks she does want male attention, the parent should educate the child about what that entails and to what it may lead. In my opinion, it is irresponsible to assume that children (and 13 years old is still a child) can really understand the implications and possible effects of each and every choice we might empower them to make.
post #90 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
In my opinion, it is irresponsible to assume that children (and 13 years old is still a child) can really understand the implications and possible effects of each and every choice we might empower them to make.
That's very true. I remember a family friend's daughter on a camping trip. She and her friend, both 13, were inviting these guys to come up to their tent to "have fun". The guys were about 18. I was 21 at the time, and so was another friend we were with. He was adamant that the girls knew what they were doing, and were getting off on the power over the boys. I never did manage to convince him that he was wrong. I think they were enjoying the feeling of "power" - that they could make the boys notice them and all that. But, I also don't think they had any idea that those boys were very likely to take "come have some fun" to mean "you're gonna get lucky". Fortunately, her dad came along and made it clear that the boys were not invited to the tent. I suspect that if he hadn't, those girls would have ended up getting raped. They had no clue what they were setting in motion, but really thought they did.
post #91 of 155
That's exactly the type of scenario I was picturing. So, if you (the plural you, anyone out there) are inclined to allow your daughter to choose her own clothing, how do you educate her to handle that which might be the result of her choice to expose regions of her body that will appeal to boys and men? I am mostly asking this question because my daughter is only 2.5 now and I choose all of her clothing, but at some point, I would like to grant her a certain degree of autonomy with that choice but also keep her "safe."
post #92 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
That's exactly the type of scenario I was picturing. So, if you (the plural you, anyone out there) are inclined to allow your daughter to choose her own clothing, how do you educate her to handle that which might be the result of her choice to expose regions of her body that will appeal to boys and men? I am mostly asking this question because my daughter is only 2.5 now and I choose all of her clothing, but at some point, I would like to grant her a certain degree of autonomy with that choice but also keep her "safe."
I don't have any daughters but between my mom and dad, I have 18 aunts and uncles so I have tons of cousins and I'm one of the oldest. I'm viewed as a "big sister" by many of my girl cousins. I have talked to them mostly about actions/behaviors they choose - as opposed to dress. I just explain to them that although they may not be trying to give off a certain vibe, they need to be aware of how boys/men are perceiving them. Perception is reality for people. I give examples of my own experiences with boys when I was a freshman and they were juniors/seniors and how I was uncomfortable dealing with situations b/c our expectations turned out to be different. I just liked the boy and was willing to kiss (plus maybe a little more) while they were interested in sex. I've had this talk with my sister too. It seems to work well for me because i have a rapport with them as opposed to some of their parents whose solution to "fast girl" behaviors was to enroll them in private Christian schools.
post #93 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherah View Post

(on the other hand I just bought him an awesome shirt that says "anarchy in the pre-K" LOL.
OMG, I NEED this shirt!! that is hilarious!
post #94 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar View Post
I have a 13 year old, so a "middle-schooler". We're currently trying to find a dress for her to wear to my dad's wedding. It needs to be fairly dressy (not like a formal, but pretty nice), not white, and not "hoochie". We're also trying to for not-black, because it is traditionally considered verboten for weddings, although I hear that rule is changing so we may go with black, because 80% of the dresses we've found are black. We've been to at least a dozen stores, and have come up with squat, except for some dresses that look like something a 50-year old would wear. I want to find a nice, basic, party dress, where the boobs don't hang out and not slit up to mid thigh. This should not be so hard...

dar
We had the same problem for recent weddings/party for 14 yr old dd. (She is naturally modest). We ended up with a long printed velvet skirt and blouse. Thankfully, ballet flats are in, so we had no problem finding appropriate shoes.

edited for spelling
post #95 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Kitten View Post
maya that's so true ~~ every "trendy" place i look now all has the "tunic" stuff ... the longer thermals ... and the babydoll dresses covered by sweaters and layered over leggings / "skinny jeans" / etc....

I love that look. My ds's gf dresses like this. It's too adorable. It reminds me of ballet dancers on their way to class. lol (Not anorexic ones, of course. In my fantasies all ballet dancers are eating healthy and enough). My oldest dd is a jeans and hoodie girl, but I love those tunics with the leggings, the skirts with the leg warmers. Sooooo cute.
post #96 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
The difference being that a 22yo may want the kind of attention that wearing 'adult' clothing often brings, and be better at dealing with it, than a 13 yo would. IMHO.

That's a very good point, I agree. Hopefully it's one that a mindful, involved parent would bring up in discussion. Also a parent could also set an example years before the teen years show up...
post #97 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachma View Post
That's exactly the type of scenario I was picturing. So, if you (the plural you, anyone out there) are inclined to allow your daughter to choose her own clothing, how do you educate her to handle that which might be the result of her choice to expose regions of her body that will appeal to boys and men?
We talk. A lot. We discuss sex, attraction, and how powerful that feeling can be for both people. We discuss what people are going to think about us as a result of our clothing choices. We discuss that NO one has the right to touch her due to her clothing choices. And so on. Talking about scenarios and options and choices is important.

Dd had a situation with a slightly older boy one year while camping. She was 11.5 and he was 13. She developed around 10 and already had breasts, and started to get hips etc. It was summer so she wore a swim suit (modest by comparison to some others), shorts and tank tops etc. He did find her attractive, it was clear, and she thought he was cute as well. It was brand new territory for her. I talked a little bit about what I was seeing with her. She said that she did think he was cute, but that was all. He was older and she felt he was kind of obnoxious. I told her to just remember that she's in control of herself and her body...she made the decisions. He ended up grabbing her butt after making a comment about "that's why you wear those jeans right?" She was angry and scared. We talked a lot after that too, and she learned from the experience. Some parents would say that this is a reason girl's shouldn't wear tight jeans. I say it's a sign we need to do a better job of teaching boys some stuff...


Quote:
I am mostly asking this question because my daughter is only 2.5 now and I choose all of her clothing, but at some point, I would like to grant her a certain degree of autonomy with that choice but also keep her "safe."
It's sure a tough balance sometimes. I understand...
post #98 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
He ended up grabbing her butt after making a comment about "that's why you wear those jeans right?" She was angry and scared. We talked a lot after that too, and she learned from the experience. Some parents would say that this is a reason girl's shouldn't wear tight jeans. I say it's a sign we need to do a better job of teaching boys some stuff...
Yes, I agree, that is most definitely a sign that we need to start teaching our boys.

Just a side note, my parents told me the same things you told your daughter, and I plan to tell my child. I had some boy repeatedly snapping my bra and making some very harrassing comments. So one day he snapped my bra and grazed my breast, and I wound up decking him. I felt I had no choice; the school would do nothing about it, even after multiple complaints from both me and my parents. I just finally snapped one day. I somewhat regret it, but somewhat not; because now, after that experience, I have no problem laying someone out should they attempt to touch or force me into something I don't want. That situation snapped me out of "helpless" mode and into "mega-b*tch don't touch me if you want to keep that hand" mode.
post #99 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redifer View Post
Yes, I agree, that is most definitely a sign that we need to start teaching our boys.

Just a side note, my parents told me the same things you told your daughter, and I plan to tell my child. I had some boy repeatedly snapping my bra and making some very harrassing comments. So one day he snapped my bra and grazed my breast, and I wound up decking him. I felt I had no choice; the school would do nothing about it, even after multiple complaints from both me and my parents. I just finally snapped one day. I somewhat regret it, but somewhat not; because now, after that experience, I have no problem laying someone out should they attempt to touch or force me into something I don't want. That situation snapped me out of "helpless" mode and into "mega-b*tch don't touch me if you want to keep that hand" mode.
Yeah, our boys definintely have to be taught to respect girls. My DS tickled a little girl under her neck - same age as him - 9. He was told by a teacher that was inappropriate and was saying to me he didn't know that was wrong. I had this long talk with him about how in general you just shouldn't touch girls period. Even though I know he was being innocent and the girl actually wasn't upset about it, it is just safer for all to not touch anybody. The problem with our society is that most boys AREN'T going to have a parent/responsible adult teach them about respecting females and boundaries and things like just b/c a girl is dressed a certain way doesn't mean you have a right to think certain things automatically and definitely never have a right to act disrespectfully. So because we (or you guys for now b/c I don't have a daughter) live in an imperfect, sexist world where the burden is placed more on females to protect themselves and control their behavior, we have to be vigilant with our girls about speaking up and protecting themselves - much like UnschoolMa illustrated in her example.
post #100 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnschoolnMa View Post
[COLOR="DarkRed"] We talk. A lot. We discuss sex, attraction, and how powerful that feeling can be for both people. We discuss what people are going to think about us as a result of our clothing choices. We discuss that NO one has the right to touch her due to her clothing choices. And so on. Talking about scenarios and options and choices is important.
I'm hoping I'll be up to this.
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