Emotional eaters wanting to stop the diet mentality and be at peace with food? - Page 2

[UptownZoo]

Hi all,
Just came across this thread and I'm so in! I've been on this path for several years, trying to heal my heart so I won't have to eat it all and then wear it on the outside in the form of a very large body.

I really enjoyed reading the conversation about perfectionism. That's totally me. I have such insanely high expectations, so I flip-flop back and forth, being "good," driving myself too hard, giving myself way too little, until I collapse, then dive headfirst into a carton of ice cream or donuts, do nothing, feel like a failure, etc. It's a terrible cycle! I've been doing much better for about 11 months now, with no significant binges in that time, but wow! The emotional stuff that comes up when I stopped the excess food takes my breath away! Well, actually, not so much now. The first few months, though, were something else. I cried so much I was afraid my face would melt. I think I've healed a lot though in that time. I'm much more stable now.

There's something Christianne Northrup says in her book Women's Bodies, Women's Wisdom that changed my thinking about all of these issues (and isn't it amazing how so many of us seem to share this stuff?). I won't get the quote exactly right, but the crux of it was, 'changes we make out of self-hatred are bound to fail; changes we make out of self-love will last.' So that's sort of my backbone idea for everything I've done in the quest for healing. Diets are about hating myself, hating my fat, hating, hating, hating. But learning to eat well, learning to nourish myself with whole foods, that's about love for myself. Even if I don't feel that love when I'm making myself a fabulous lunch, I figure I'm sending all kinds of messages to my subconscious that say things like, 'I'm worth the time and effort that it requires to eat well.' And when I can't do anything but be mean to myself, I try to "talk" to myself the same way I talk to my children. If they make mistakes, I help them fix it and help them express their feelings about it, then remind them that I love them like crazy and always will, no matter what. Would I call them lazy idiots (or worse) like I do to myself? Never, of course. I don't deserve any less!

So anyway, I've been really focused on using an inner voice (This all sounds very woo-woo new agey, doesn't it? I'm totally a practical person, but this seems right at the moment.) that's nurturing. It's really working for me. I think a lot of my eating comes out of plain old loneliness and hurt for a lack of nurturing in my life.

Right now, I'm struggling because I'm having lots of low back and pelvic pain that we're having trouble diagnosing. They called it an infection at first, but after NINE abx (yes, no kidding, 9! Two injections, one by IV, and six oral), that dx is seeming less likely. So I may be headed for so more invasive tests, likely a lap to see if this is endometriosis, then maybe surgery if it is endo or hospitalization for the truly down-and-dirty abx if it is, in fact, an infection. So between the pain pills that increase my cravings for mass amounts of carbs (esp. chocolate!), being unable to exercise (which is like a magic bullet for keeping my stress levels low), and the general grouchiness that comes with being in pain and being bored because I can't really do much, I'm having more trouble than usual eating in a way that feels right.

Has anyone looked into this program? I've read the book and done the orientation and I'm going to do it; it looks amazing. Well, actually, I started, then all this pain and the medicine got in the way. But it's the real deal, a way to achieve deep healing for these kinds of problems. Really, when I read the book, I just had this sense that this is it. It's about learning to nurture yourself and change your expectations so they're more realistic, so you don't bang up against things so much. If that makes sense. Sorry if I'm not clear. Pain pills, ya' know. The method is a lot of work and takes 1-2 years, but I'm way beyond the point where I'm looking for a quick fix, ya' know? I know in my guts by now that the pain that drives my food problem is deep and wide.

Enough outta me? Yes, I think so.

[eldadeedlit]

Originally Posted by veggiemommy

Well--that actually proved their case that I was a perfectionist even more which SHOCKED me. That was because I wanted the house so perfect that it would just seem SO overwhelming so I wouldn't know where to start, so I wouldn't. I always had to clean JUST SO-I couldn't do a quick sweep of the floor--I had to get under and behind absolutely everything and before I could do that, I had to put EVERYTHING away and on it goes.

omg I haven't gotten a chance to read through your whole post, but this is SO ME. I am always telling my husband this! I can be TERRIBLY messy because of that exact reason. I am a perfectionist, and it is all-or-nothing with me. So yeah, if I "mess up" and eat a brownie or something, the whole day is ruined anyway, so I should just eat *all* the brownies. I used to be this way with school too but once I chose computer science as my minor, I had to let that go.

[missingthetrees]

Uptownzoo - man oh man oh man - that quote from C. Northrup struck SUCH a chord in me. I sat here going, "yeah! yeah! wow!" and then had to write it down in my calendar. Thank you for sharing that!! Now I need to figure out the self-love part... Any suggestions?

So I've done pretty well this weekend, eating to satisfaction, rather than overeating. I'm happy about that. I also exercised this morning, which helps get my mood up. I'm happy about that, too!

Anybody have any opinions about Geneen Roth? I've read almost all of one of her books, but didn't finish it, because I felt like then I'd have to act on what I read. If I didn't finish the book, I didn't have to act on, because I 'haven't finished reading the book yet!' Doh! Anyway, I ordered another one of her books, and a CD that I can listen to in the car when I'm commuting (which is about the only time I have to myself). :

Have a great day, all! Type to you later...

MaryBeth

[CathToria]

subbing to this thread. I will go back and read all of the replies.

I have been fighting emotional eating for years. I finally got a handle on it a few months ago, but I've been slipping back into old habits the last few weeks.

I basically eat when I am bored, sad, and especially when I am procrastinating.

I'll be back to add more........

[CurlyTop]

Yay!

I asked for you all and this forum, and here it is! Talk about new agey: I really did ask for likeminded people to be with during my journey toward peace with my body, and HERE YOU ARE! No, don't go putting me on "ignore," I'm not nuts! Just happy

I have the book When You Eat at the Refrigerator, Pull Up a Chair by Geneen Roth from the library right now. She must be the sanest person I've ever read. Here are some of her ideas, in my own words:

- Get rid of your "skinny" clothes. They mock you and make you feel like you have to put off being as lovely as you are until later.

-Get rid of your "fat" clothes. They think your success at losing weight is temporary. They mock your success.

- Live "As If" you were already thin. It's a well known truth that people who have successfully lost weight shake their heads saying, "I thought I'd be so happy, but I still feel fat!" So realize that your body size has nothing to do with feeling fat or thin. It's a con you play on yourself, and you can stop. Wear something soft and lovely, in your size.

- Every diet has an equal and opposite binge. Diets don't work because you will eventually binge. This is so true for me. Lose 3 lbs, celebrate with a bite of bread that turns into ten, with butter.

It's all about being kind to yourself until you are rational and loving enough to act on your own behalf. You can't act on your own behalf when your inner voices are telling you that you'll be happy only if you're thin, and that since you're not, you really do suck. Right?

Isn't Geneen Roth awesome?!

I've been on many, many paths toward healing my emotional issues so I can be kind to myself, and act on my own behalf. I have read every word every one of you has written on this thread, and feel like I, too, have insights to share and will benefit from being with you right now. I hope we can keep this up for the time needed to have some real breakthroughs.

In July 2004 I went to the Hoffman Quadrinity Process and dealt fully and deeply with my issues with my parents. I went because I was determined my then-2-year-old DDs would not inherit the legacy of pain that my parents passed on to me. It is a beautiful process, full of physical and emotional hard work, that yields a kind of freedom from inner hatred that I'd never experienced before. The Quadrinity means your Body, Mind, Spirit, and Emotional selves being in harmony and supporting one another. If you "somatize" your emotions, you are punishing your body for things you think you've done wrong. Migraines, IMO, are a somatization of guilt and anger about being driven to perfection. If I'm not good enough, I can show everyone that I know I'm not good by punishing myself. Then maybe they won't think they need to punish me. It's a hangover from childhood.

My DD is begging me to play with her while she waits for her sis to get out of the shower - so I'm going. I'll keep up with you all, this is important to me!

[CurlyTop]

I re-read my post and I want to clarify that I don't think I've "arrived" yet. I am feeling very happy for how far I've come, and I also know I have a long way to go to be at peace with my body.

Also, I believe FlyLady's book Body Clutter gives a program for finding your emotional reasons for eating too much. I don't have the book, though, so I can't say if it advocates losing weight so much as loving yourself enough to eat well ??

I'll be back....

[CurlyTop]

Oh my goodness, did I kill it?? I hope not !

[veggiemommy]

Oh my goodness CurlyTop--of course not!

I know that I often think that too after I post something--especially when I posted some of my really long ones--I hope I don't scare anyone away!!

Anyway, I have been waiting to get a chance to write back--unfortunately I am up to my eyeballs with catching up from taking some actual holidays so I'm WAY busier than normal right now so this will have to be quick (yah right!!)

Oh my goodness 3happygirls--you are SO funny about how and when you can journal--I guess it's so funny as I have TOTALLY done that too--however I decided just to buy a nice notebook (full size spiral bound--doesn't *look* like a journal so I don't have to worry so much about someone wanting to read it!) and I just try to use it - even if it is just a few lines - as often as I can. It would be IMPOSSIBLE to ever use it (at least in my life) if I did all that you said... so I'm sure you would tell me to use it whenever I could and that it doesn't have to be the perfect scenerio and that to perhaps carry it with me so I could use it while waiting at the Dr's office or at my daughter's dance class or whatever.... so I'm going to say the same to you! (Somehow it seems to stick more for me when people say things that way to me so I thought that I would try to see if that helped you any?!?!) It really does help you see things more clearly and to get some feelings out that you might not realize that you have and of course having some quiet time to do it is super, but it is still doable without that... and of course you can come and chat to us instead of your journal if you want--I find that it helps to do both...

Interesting about the fly lady stuff--I joined that a while ago and just felt overwhelmed--mostly with all those darn emails--I could never keep up and kept keeping them, wanting to read them all and that made me feel worse so I finally quit getting them as there was too much guilt involved for me (at least at that time!!)

Uptownzoo--so good to have you too, glad you found us and it's great that you are part way through your journey too--it's fabulous to have people in different 'places' so that we can all learn from each other, see where we have come from and where it is possible to go! You mention doing much better for 11 months--what helped you to get on that better path? I know you mentioned your health being the main cause of stopping and I hope that you find out what is causing your pain soon so that something can be done about it--not knowing is SO hard. I know how frustrating it can feel to be 'doing better' and then to feel like you are suddenly going back to old behaviours... especially when it is caused by something out of your control however I know it's a long journey and it's HARD to change lifelong behaviours as they are ingrained in our brain pathways but it IS possible!

I love that Northrup quote that you mentioned--I completely agree that doing things out of love for yourself rather than hate is a MUCH healthier and much more successful. I too have been taught quite a bit about the inner voice (and trust me, when I started to go to counselling, I thought a lot of that was NUTS!!) but it is definitely a great tool albeit an area I need a lot more work. I find it hard to be kind to myself and I'm sure that is a common theme with most of us...

I looked into that program a little yesterday and it does look quite good apart from the food part--any program that deals with food scares me away personally as I know that being told what to eat etc. will cause me to rebel and I've worked too hard to get to where I am but of course that is just me... You mentioned reading a book--was it from there? Is it enough on it's own as the whole program seems really expensive (and again has the food element)--and does the book deal much with what food you can/can't eat? I'd love to hear more if you don't mind sharing...

eldadeedlit - isn't the 'all or nothing' thinking just so destructive--it just permeates every area of our lives and until someone points it out or you read about the behaviour, it just seems 'normal' when it is far from it! I am definitely working hard on this one!

missingthetrees--I too have Geneen Roth books--I should dig them out--I had them before I went to counselling funnily enough but didn't really follow through with the work as it just seemed to scary I think and to 'out there' at the time--but I know I've changed a lot in the past few years and I bet that I would learn a lot more from them this time around. I think she definitely has some great things to say-you should definitely go back and actually *do* the work this time--perhaps we can challenge each other to do a certain part at a time or something--at least to get us started?? Which one do you want to read again--I can check and see if I have it... The listening in the car is a great idea--unfortunately I can't do that--I never drive more than 10 or 15 minutes and the kids are always with me and I'm thinking that they won't enjoy that too much!

Welcome to you Cathtoria--jump in whenever you are ready--I'm sure that you'll find a lot that you can relate to!

I can relate to your CurlyTop--I'm really happy to have found some like minded online ladies to talk to that don't think I'm crazy! I was a little worried that I would scare people away with my HUGE posts but once I get started on this topic, I find it hard to stop as I want to address everyone and also say what is going on for me--and that takes a long time!!

I haven't had a chance to check out your link yet as I saw your third post and didn't want you to feel badly so I wanted to answer before checking that out but it sounds interesting. What you said about migraines is SO interesting though--I unfortuntely get migraines quite a bit so I'll definitely be interested in hearing more about that... I most often get them when I'm not taking good enough care of myself (water, good food, rest, lowering my stress levels)...

I didn't know FlyLady had a book called Body Clutter--I might have to check that out too--it definitely is emotional reasons that I eat but I often don't know what - I wonder if that book can really help one figure that out?!

Anyway now on to myself... today my dh had an interview to work for a DREAM company and we've been stressing a LOT about that as he's been laid off since the end of August, accepted a job a few weeks ago that paid WAY less than we really need, has no benefits and is only a 1 year term--but he took it as he feels dreadful having to be on EI and he misses working etc..

Anyway, so he had this interview today and it went REALLY well however they have one more candidate that they are interviewing tomorrow so we'll have to wait until Friday (hopefully no longer!) to hear if he got it... But of course the thing the two of us have been stressed out about the most is what the heck to tell the place where he first accepted a job! (It doesn't start until the end of January) We feel so bad that he *might* have to tell them that he found a MUCH better job (more money, great benefits--good for me as I can go back to counselling!, great holidays and personal days, and on it goes) - so we know that pretty much anyone else in their right mind would take the new job but we are still struggling with the whole letting the first company down thing...

Anyway, so hopefully that stress will be over soon and I HOPE that he gets the job as he is beyond excited about it and I so want him to work at a great place again!

The other big thing for me (not sure if I mentioned it before) is that we are building a house right now--we were lucky enough to have neighbours that bought a lot and then convinced us to buy one next to them and they would build ours too--however things have taken WAY longer than expected and WAY too many things have delayed it etc. and it's just a VERY stressful process but hopefully that will be done by March at the latest (It WAS supposed to be done by AUGUST!!) so I just can't wait for these things to be over so I can get back to a lower stress level!!

Those are the two biggest things and then of course JamTots and our wholesale side of our business TOT Wearhouse--both are super busy which is good but also adds to my stress level--especially because we often feel stretched way too thin as there is so much to be done and just not enough time and almost all of the money we make keeps getting put into the business and we can't afford to get all of the help that we need... I LOVE our business but can't wait for the day when it will be less stressful!

And last (but NOT least!!) my kiddos--I have 3--6, 4 and 2 in February--and they are a LOT of work (that I mostly love doing though of course!) but it's very exhausting and while I love their ages, I keep thinking that it's only got to get easier as they get older... please tell me that's true!!

I had them really helping with some chores today and that was great--they were so enthusiastic--I bought a book about housekeeping with kids and have been implementing some of the ideas and I think that it will really help with how our house runs even though it's a lot more work at first...

Oh and I bought a refurbished Vitamix and that has been reducing my guilt level as far as getting more healthy foods into my kids--I've been sneaking cabbage, spinach, carrots, soy protein, fibre etc. into my kids smoothies, macaroni and cheese, fruit sorbets etc. so it's making me feel better (as I'm doing that for myself too!) but also making me feel like they will be healthier for it as well so that's awesome!

I think that's all for now--I'll try to write more often, but maybe not huge book length posts, but I'm sure you'll all forgive me if that's what I end up doing anyway!!

I'm just so happy to have all of you here--thank you from the bottom of my heart for being so open with me and each other and doing this journey with me!

I bought Don Miguel Ruiz's "The Four Agreements" cards the other day (LOVE THEM!) and wanted to quote one here--SO many hit home with me as far as things I have been learning in my journey...

"Personal importance, or taking things personally, is the maximum expression of selfishness because we make the assumption that everything is about me."

What an interesting way to look at that don't you think?? I used to always take everything personally--and now my first reaction is to do that, but after some thought, I can often see past it and see that what people do is more often about them, not about me...

So I plan to not take it personally (and try to help my dh not take it personally) if he doesn't get the job--and if he does, to not take it personally when the people at the job he already accepted, are disappointed or upset if he has to tell them that he got a MUCH better offer... again--they aren't going to be concerned about him--but about what work they have to do to find someone else--but perhaps if they paid a decent wage or offered benefits, then they would have an easier time finding a good person...

Okay--really want to get some more work done while I can here so I'll check in with you ladies later!

Hugs,
Holly

[CurlyTop]

Whew! I seem to even take it personally when my post just sits there at the bottom of a page. "It's me, isn't it?" That quote regarding selfishness at the heart of self-importance... when I was in freshman communications class in college (Persuasion) I got so anxious about my first class speech, I was just sick to my stomach and really wanted my professor to let me do it later. He finally said something like the quote posted, and wouldn't you know it - I took it personally! LOL! I thought, wow, I am a self-centered jerk for being so nervous. I never saw the humor in this until right now.

Holly, one journaling idea you might really like (I learned it at the Hoffman process, but it probably wasn't invented there!) is called "Visioning." In your case, you'd take a blank sheet of paper in your notebook, and start writing out your most perfect ideal in all the major areas. Be sure to write in the first person present tense. Describe in vivid detail your home, relationship with your DH, with your DKs, your work life, financial situation, and health. Add or skip areas as they are important to you. Be absolutely ideal - if you begin to think of how you should be satisfied with what you have, or, you don't really deserve such absolute loveliness, just acknowledge the thought and let it go. Your instructions are to detail your perfect ideal situation, so just do it knowing you really do deserve it all. THEN when you've got the rosy picture deeply resonating within you, very objectively consider where things are in reality in those areas. Without making them worse than they are, or better than they are, just reflect on the real situation. Imagine you are holding your dream reality in your right hand and your current reality in your left hand. Feel the tension the difference is creating between your two hands. That tension is the creative force that is actively working to bring your dream to life. Next, put your ideal situation at the front of your mind and say, "And so it is."

I highly recommend trying this. I'm thankful for you reminding ME to try this again. The first time I did this, I was just craving community. I envisioned myself living in a big house with loving friends all around me. It wasn't long that I met a few moms at my townhouse pool - and then I started adding moms as I ran across them and today we have a 25 member Yahoo group of families living in my complex. We have a babysitting co-op, and the HOA even pays for four parties each year that we organize to keep the community alive. Funny, I didn't move into a big house, but my 250 unit townhouse complex feels kind of like a big house with friends all around in it!

3happygirls, your descriptions of how perfect things have to be to journal made me laugh out loud. Not AT you, believe me! I have some kind of obsession with perfect settings too. I even think, "I'll be able to have fun once I get the house cleaned up, the laundry washed, folded, put away, the closets decluttered, the rooms with old baseboards updated with new ones, the menus made up for next week, birthday cards sent on time, and... well, I always have something else holding me back from being "allowed" to enjoy life. What a huge huge drag. I'm right here with you trying to figure that all out.

I seem to be an all-or-nothing black/white thinker too. So I believe I can EITHER live in a pig sty, OR constantly pick up and clean things all day long, never having any fun. Sometimes I try to make the cleaning up FUN, and yes, it can be, but it isn't fun on it's own merits. I am decoupling the false dilemma. And also reminding myself that meanings I make aren't True in the black/white sense. I mean, having a clean house doesn't equal me being a fine upstanding person. They're just not related!

I do want to add some of my backstory here, since I tend to isolate myself (they'll hate me if they know me). I'm "outgoing" and easy to talk to, but find it harder to share myself. I'm not sure if I should say, Thanks in advance, or just eat a tub of something to stop worrying that I'll somehow kill this thread just by being here! Yikes.

My only perceived advantage, specialness I guess, growing up with my mom was that I was thin. Unfortunately, I had acne and frizzy hair, but at least I was thin! I know she compared (and still does) me and my sister to herself. I was SO slim no one ever believed I'd gain a pound. It was practically my identity. I still don't like to visit her (2500 miles away) because I know she'll see me as my weight. Oh, btw, we all smoked cigarettes and barely ate growing up.

I spent half my growing up years with my dad. My step-mom and step-sister hated me for not having their body shape. They are small busted, tiny wasted, and have large hips. My step-sister used to take me shopping and have me try on everything so she could see how it would look on a mannequin. She called me "emaciated." My step-mom responded to my low self esteem issues with disgusted disbelief: "You sure don't LOOK like you have any lack of confidence in how you look. Look at that walk!" I don't have the nerves right now to go into it more, I'm hearing my self-talk harping on about how I must sound, it wasn't THAT bad, I'm just being self-centered again. Gosh, this sucks, sorry - I don't want to delete it tho since this is my journalling for today.


So anyway, I have lots of conflicting, twisted "meanings" I've made about how I look. If I look "too good" I must be full of myself. If I look "too bad" I feel ashamed. Ugh! I feel that nauseated migraine-y feeling coming on.

And now, it's dinner time! LOL!

And on this note, bon appetit! Please remember I'm not a jerk or a freak, just a person who's writing what goes through my mind. :

[veggiemommy]

Hello again ladies!

Well I just got back from a NIA class and it was absolutely fabulous--I was feeling great until my hubby told me that he didn't get the job. Then of course all these negative emotions came up and my body got all tense (and still is mostly) as I felt SO angry as the 8 or so people that interviewed him acted like he had the job already and had him analize their website etc. (which now I'm thinking that they are going to steal his ideas!) and I got all excited thinking that I could go to counselling again (never mind the dentist for all of us and get some new contacts...)

However my hubby was SO indifferent about it which was strange as he was so excited about the job--but he realized how horrible both of us felt about *possibly* having to tell the other job that he got another job and so I'm thinking that perhaps that came across... or even if not, it is the universe telling us that the other job with less hours (albeit less pay, holidays and no benefits) is what he needs right now... His last job was horribly stressful where he was overworked and never got time off or paid for all the extra work and he did courses and paid from his pocket, only for them to never repay him etc. but this job sounds far from that and probably what he needs right now...

I'm just trying to wrap my head around it though--there is definite disappointment and resentment towards the interviewee's (is that a word?) but I want to believe that this is for the best....

I can relate to your speech stuff Curlytop although no one every said anything about me being self-important--and if they did, I definitely would have taken it personally for sure!! That's so great that you can see the humour in it now--better late than never!! I can see what that quote means now though but likely wouldn't have been able to a few years ago -- which is kind of cool in itself!

Thanks for giving me an exercise to do--I'll try to do it tonight or in the next day or so when I can concentrate on it--it sounds neat so thank you for sharing that... I looked at the Hoffman process website and it looks quite interesting and it's so great to hear that it helped you a lot! I'm sure there are lots of different ways to get to the same endpoint and that looks to be like a good one... I believe I saw a book on there (I looked earlier today so I can't recall for sure at the moment)--is it any good do you know?

And oh my goodness I for one certainly do not think that you are a jerk or a freak! I was never naturally skinny (well after grade 6 that is!) but can certainly understand that people would be jealous and hateful about it for sure-I know that I have been guilty of jealousy towards naturally thin people (including my dh!) and that would bring a whole different set of issues...

I didn't have a huge story growing up by any stretch and wasn't anorexic or bulemic so I guess that's why it took me so long to ask for help (and to admit that I could use help--that was HUGE as I was taught to act strong all the time!) However things like multi-tasking to where you are completely overwhelmed, being a perfectionist, constantly dieting or binging and worrying about my weight, having all or nothing thinking, taking things personally, making assumptions, being the 'sensitive' one, being a pessimist, looking for the negative aspects in others rather than the positive and I'm sure many more 'traits' that I have picked up over the years--well it was enough to cause a lot of grief in my life and caused me to need to make changes in order to be happy. I am a very different person than I was just a few years ago and I believe that the changes have all been good however some people in my life may beg to differ as they want me to stay the same--to be more like them rather than make any changes that go against the 'norm' of what they expect from me.

I've also just recently realized that I get so frustrated (especially with my husband) when people do things half-assed--I have recently recognized that I picked up that behaviour from my mom - she keeps trying to get a housecleaner but they "never do a good enough job" and she is just discusted as to what they consider clean! It's actually amusing listening to her--I can relate on one hand as you think that you should have a well cleaned house when you are paying for it--but she is expecting more than that--she is expecting it to be immaculate and for them to clean in places that you just don't need to clean (except like once a year for a DEEP spring cleaning or something!) She was practically doing a white glove test in the cracks and crevices of her home and was guffawing because the cleaning ladies that she has had would not clean there in the 2 or 3 hours that she had paid them to clean! Anyway -- I'm trying to let up in that department as well--my dh doesn't always do things the way that I would do them but I have to let go and see that there are different ways to do things and know that if I keep complaining about every little thing he doesn't do the way I would do (which I used to say was the 'right' way) then I would have to do EVERYTHING myself. And who is to say that my way is the 'right' way anyway--how self-righteous is that?

Okay thanks for listening--I just read the top of my post and realized that this has gotten my mind off of the job disappointment so if nothing else, this has served that purpose!!

Have a great night ladies and I hope that some of you will write again soon or are at least picking up ideas when you are not busy writing!
Holly

[eldadeedlit]

whew a lot to read and i need to get the kids ready for nursery school!

curlytop-- I have read Geneen Roth's column in "Prevention" magazine and I ADORE her. She is so awesome! I really would love to get one of her books out of the library... hmm, heading down there today. I should see if they have any.

Yesterday I had a major breakthrough. Well, I guess it doesn't *seem* that big... but usually when I get the urge to eat, I don't think about *why* or even consciously realize that it is because I am sad or stressed out or whatever. I just get this signal "I need brownies/cupcakes/cookies/whatever" and I treat it like a *need*. KWIM? And then I eat whatever it was I was craving and feel good..like I took care of myself, but at the same time feel gross for eating such disgusting stuff, and vow to do better "tomorrow." well, anyway, yesterday the kids and i (as you can see from my signature, i have 3 -- a 4yr old, 2 yr old and a 4 month old)... went to target. both of my older kids were out of the cart b/c there wasnt enough room for them, and they were running around at one point hiding from me and it was majorly stressing me out. and the baby was cranky and didnt want to be in the carseat or the sling, so i was carrying her... which stinks when you're pushing a shopping cart! so i was like agh we have to get out of here!!! but on the way out, i felt like i needed something sweet... so i went and got little debbie brownies (yuk!!) and ate like four of them.

ok so *that* wasn't my victory! but i did have an "aha!" moment after that. i craved sugar because i was stressed! duh!! why have i never seen that before? i mean, i knew it on an intellectual level... that theoretically that was what was going on. but i never had that real connection where it really clicked like that, kwim?

anyway i must go. i will post again later!

[loudmama]

Wow-so many things are ringing true to me. I take things personally, I eat sugar when stressed & more. So much that I'm not sure even what to say! I'm just glad you are all here. It makes me really happy that I have an appointment with a therapist soon. Get working on "things."

Gotta go now....Baby waking up!

L

[veggiemommy]

eldadeedlit that's so great that you saw the relationship yesterday--that is definitely a step in the right direction! I KNOW how stressful what you described can be--my kids sound like about the same age differences as your 3 so I've been there and can definitely relate--shopping is still not easy with all 3 but it's definitely easier than what you just described so do know that it will get easier (if that helps at all!) Pushing the shopping cart while holding a baby and worrying about losing your other kids while they hide sounds SO familiar and it is SO difficult! I hope that at some point you forgave yourself for having the brownies--it did it's 'job' and helped you to calm down and you will likely still do that in many situations but now you are recognizing it and that is great--and eventually you can work on other ways to calm yourself as essentially that's what emotional eating is--using food as your calming mechanism....

I find that another time that I eat is when I'm cold--which is really strange as it's not like food warms me up but that is one that I recently had an ah ha moment about--so I had hot chocolate (as I don't like coffee or tea) instead of eating food as I wasn't really hungry!

That's so great that you have an appointment with a therapist soon loudmama--I hope that it will be helpful for you.

I woke up in the night with a horrible migraine... I'm thinking that it is because I am no longer super stressed about my dh *possibly* having to tell the first job that he took that he found another job.... I often get migraines after a stressful event is over so I'm pretty sure that is why...

So anyway, I've had lots of time to think as I was lying there after I took some advil and was trying to deep breathe to make the pain less severe... I know I had a lot to share but I'm having a hard time remembering now... I know that I wanted to mention that I grew up being VERY sarcastic and that is something I am working on as I have now realized that a lot of being sarcastic is saying things that are actually mean but then being able to say 'oh i was just being sarcastic' once you realize someone is hurt by it... Our builder is VERY sarcastic and I can't for the life of me tell when he is joking and when he is not and it's really getting to me... He'll joke around with my kids too and then say something that is serious but they can't tell the difference and then he gets mad at them for not listening... (and man I couldn't even tell when he was serious or not!) and the same with my dh--he was working with our builder helping any way that he could in between looking for a job (as he's been laid off since August) and I thought he was a great help... Then yesterday our builder was saying that my dh doesn't listen to him and laughs at whatever he says but doesn't do what he wants some of the time... I was a little shocked at the time as I thought that my dh was helping but then realized this am that my husband thinks that he is joking all of the time.... so if he is SERIOUS--my dh has NO idea and just laughs--and our builder doesn't let him know that he is serious--he just leaves it like that?!?! Talk about confusing!!!

Oh and that brings me to what I used to do as well which I would imagine is a common thing too---that I expected people to be able to read my mind!!!!!!!!! Now I know that is something I learned as a very young child as I had to read other people's minds in my life and so for a long time I expected my dh especially to be able to read my mind... Once I realized how horrible that was (and that I was doing it) I immediately changed that and have been working to have the people in my life change too if at all possible... I actually tell people when I need or want something and don't expect them just to *know* and I know my dh appreciates that SO much--it is way less stressful for him and I wish that other people in my life would see it that way too! I've even told my mom and grandmother to tell me what they need and that I can't read their minds and I see them *SLOWLY* changing for the better...

Our builder seems to think that he can read my mind and says things like 'you're mad' even when I say that I'm not etc. and it's uber frustrating as I try to be honest etc. but he thinks that I'm not and says that he can read me like a book! UGH!!

My dh is now very excited about his initial job again this am as he is remembering how excited he was when he first got it--yah it's less money and vacation and no benefits--but it's kind of what he needs right now--a less stressful job and more time with his family... We are going to look into how much the benefits are as he was told that he can pay the full amount for them and get benefits so we're going to see how much they are and what they cover and see if it would be worthwhile--hopefully therapy is covered as that would definitely help make it worthwhile but we'll see... It scares me to not have any benefits for a whole year more--we've already been without since August and the whole family needs to go to the dentist and eye doctor...

Here is another quote from my Don Miguel Ruiz cards:

The problem with making assumptions is that we believe they are the truth. We make an assumption, we misunderstand, we take it personally, then we react by sending emotional poison with our word. This creates a whole big drama for nothing.

That one really rings true for me. Thank you to each and every one of you that has taken the time to post so far and for those of you that will post in the future--I really appreciate it!!

Holly

[CurlyTop]

It is such a breath of fresh air reading so many of my thoughts in other people's words The delight isn't in knowing others suffer in similar ways to me, but in seeing you women brave enough to lay it out there and working hard to liberate yourselves and helping me do the same. Thank you.

What is NIA class?

Regarding Hoffman, I agree that there are many paths to peace. The Hoffman Institute doesn't advertise because the founders believed people will all find peace according to their personal spiritual path ... I really respect that.

Holly, the visioning exercise I mentioned would be useful in clarifying your highest vision of your DH's job. I hear you wanting him to have a good balance between work and family time, to be paid handsomely for the valuable work he contributes, to be afforded health and vacation benefits for the family, and to have a genuine excitement about his work. Yes, he DESERVES all of that! If you (and he) can be clear about exactly what you want to ask the universe for, you can have it.

I was a sarcastic mind-reader too! I was soooo bad I truly believed I KNEW what other people were thinking, what motivated them, even if they denied it. I thought I knew people better than they knew themselves! And I also knew what would work for them, if only they'd listen to my astute wisdom. Oh, my, that was a tough way to enter a marriage! Thankfully, my DH has the patience of a saint and has somehow enjoyed my path to healing. Well, "enjoyed" may be overstating things! One day my step-mom said to me, "I know you better than you know yourself," and I thought, "what a bunch of sh!t, and, that is about the most arrogant thing anyone has ever said to me." Aha!

Eldadeedlit Hip! Hip! Hooray! Three cheers for Eldadeedlit!!
IMO, being aware of a pattern is worthy of an enormous celebration, because without that step, you're still in auto-pilot wondering what on earth happened everytime you eat four li'l debbies. I congratulate you on a huge step. And like Holly said, even if or when you eat too much sweets to self-medicate your stress, the step of awareness will be with you so you're not regressing or failing, but continuing on your path. I'm so happy for you!

Holly, your builder is driving me crazy He needs a sign, like a wink or an ear-tug when he's NOT being sarcastic. Sheesh!

OK, that's it for me. Off to make tiny bundt cakes with the kids

[femme_rouge]

Well, here I am. Hello.

First, I want to say reading through these posts has been theraputic. Being the controlling compulsive gal that I am, I had to read all the posts before I was "allowed" to post

Anyways, even though I probably don't have time to get into things right now (babies), I just wanted to say "hi" and that I'd love to join this insightful discussion. The fact that I'm letting myself do this instead of waiting to do a proper, well thought out post is progress

I'm just going to write and please forgive me if I cut off abruptly.

I'm 33, and I would say I've been off an on this journey for 10 years. The trying to connect to the emotional eating that is. The eating issues have been going since I was 2. Really, 2, isn't that sad. When I was 1, my mom was told I was too thin and I should be given lots of fats. By the time I was 2 my mom couldn't deal with having an overweight child (I wasn't) and I was put on my first diet. I have really suffered with distorted body image since. It lead to my disordered eating which began around 10 years old (bulimia). Anyways, instead of going on with that history, I want to focus on the journey to being here.

This has been an on and off again process for me. I've dealt with different things when I was ready to deal with them and fallen back to old habits of dieting and overexercising, then back to doing nothing. I have a lot of other stuff to deal with from my past and food has been a major coping device for me. I started actively working through some of my stuff again in therapy when I was pregnant with my 2nd DC (about 1 year ago--really-- that long? ) I am really feeling I have the right to deal with this stuff now. I have a right to be well and learn to heal my relationship with food and my body. I've also read Geneen Roth, but about 10 years ago at the beginning of this process. It is definitely time to dig that out again.

I can relate to almost everything written and am so grateful that this thread was started. I think that you are all so brave and wise. Thank you for sharing. This is where I need to be, and I hope I can contribute in a positive way. OK, now I need to be honest that I'm having the thread-killer paranoia...when I've posted short vague details in the past I haven't gotten any response (so, my imagination was allowed to run wild at what a freak I must be coming across as).

So, I found enough time for an intro anyways. I wish you all a peaceful day. Hi.

[allgirls]

subbing..I subbed to the other thread but I think this is better for me...I don't want it to be about weight/dieting but about finding a way to optimal health...of course to be honest, deep down inside, right now, because I am at the very beginning of this I hope I will have the side effect of weight loss...but I hope at the end of it all I will have a healthy body, mind and spirit and be free at last from the diet mentality.

I LOVE the idea of writing down your "ideal life" That is my first goal on this journey..to work on that! I have so many blessings now but I don't have that ideal...in fact I don't really even know what my ideal life is but I will be working on that.

Why do I eat crap? Here are my theories

1. I am addicted to the sugar/flour/processed food that makes most of us fat
2. I use this "food" to medicate myself
3. I medicate myself because I am human and I don't want to feel pain
4. I really am busy and stressed and bored and can't seem to find time to take care of myself.
5. I don't care about myself because I really don't see my importance except as a caretaker
6. I am not a priority
7. I haven't identified what I need to be happy in life and I should have by now...I am 40 and time is running out



Why do I want to change?

1. Because I am 40 and time is running out...I want quality of life
2. Because I have 4 children and a dh who love me more than I love myself and they deserve to have me around
3. I don't want to die until they can get by without me.
4. I want to dance at all their weddings and see my grandchildren...I want to grow old
5. I want to be healthy..I want to be vibrant...
6. I want it to no longer be a struggle that dominates my life.
7. I want it to be forever


Today I ate really well...healthy food...I ate tons of greens and beans and made healthy treats but it was a lot of work..then I hadsome trouble with my 12 year old, I am really tired, pmsing(I hope I can eat better to get rid of this too) and in the stress of it all I have some icecream between graham crackers...not a great big deal really but enough to make me wonder afterwards what the heck I was thinking.

Right at the moment my goal is to pack as much nutrient rich food into my body as I possible can without a thought as to weight or size, just getting me healthy. I am also determined to move around more. I was doing great with yoga but hte kids have been home from school so I have let it go for a couple weeks..thank goodness they go back monday.

and I am putting the scale away...I have decided no more scale, maybe ever...because it really doesn't matter what I weigh anyway..it just isn't that important right now.

[mom2avasteph]

I haven't been on MDC in a *long* time, but this thread grabbed my attention. I was thinking last night- I started to gain weight after I delivered my first dd, 7 years ago. I was wondering if it was all related to starting an antidepressant, but I also realized that I stopped drinking right before I conceived her. Being so sick while pg was probably what kept me slim during the pg. Then in 2003 I got pg with dd #2 and lost 20 pounds because of hyperemesis. Jump forward to 2004 and the weight started to return. I have been thinking that I replaced one coping mechanism with another. Of course, the drinking was not nearly as bad as the eating- mostly once a week..but food is socially acceptable and you cannot get away from it. I even got to the point of sneaking it, hiding it etc...,
So, without focusing on an acceptable weight I am focusing on eating healthy. I think that if I focus on healing myself, mind and body, the right weight for me will come about as a result. I *have* to stop feeding myself with food when I need something else, obviously.

[CurlyTop]

Hi Femme Rouge! Welcome, and thanks for validating my fear of killing threads I've never even posted on the thread about it (thread killers welcome...) because you know, somehow it would be me to actually do it! It would be an exposure therapy for me to post there (cover me with spiders, but noooooooo! don't let me kill a thread just by being there!!! ) I really feel for you having so much food baggage dumped on you at 2 years old. Unbelievably bad, I'm sorry you were the focus of that ridiculous attention by your mom. And to be bulemic at 10 years old? I may be sheltered, but that is so incredibly sad, again my heart goes out to you.

I was never diagnosed with anorexia as a teen, but I always felt just a little bit fat - I could pinch an inch of skin, you know (at 98 lbs and 5'6") so now I wonder. As for bulemia, that caught me after my kids were born and I couldn't lose the weight. I gained 70 lbs with my twins, because I had 2 m/c's before that pregnancy and felt afraid if I didn't eat, they wouldn't grow. And I was so scared, so I ate too much fat and sugar to comfort myself. When I went back to work and didn't look like my pre-preg self, I ate a huge breakfast burrito and then went to the bathroom and, well, you all know what bulemia is. I asked my DH what the big deal was and he scared me with stories of people having potassium deficiencies and dying. Now I get depressed and nauseated and get sick when I think about how much I eat. Is that bulemia? I have always been able to make myself get sick, just by thinking about it. Since I was 4 or so and food was such an issue at my house - they'd make me sit and eat no matter how long I sat there or said I didn't like the food or felt sick. Finally I'd just cry so hard I'd throw up. They would get so mad and tell me I was just trying to be in a power struggle and how wasteful I was and didn't I know how hard my dad worked, blood sweat and tears, just to put that food in my mouth. Jeez.

Allgirls, welcome! If you do try the visualization, just take the parts of your "reasons" list below and change them to first person present tense and see how that feels. Here's my suggestion from what you said:

1. Because I am young, and deserve good quality of life!
2. Because I have 4 children and a dh who love me and I deserve to be around!
3. I am going to be around when my children are independent !
4. I will dance at all their weddings and see my grandchildren...I will grow old
5. I am healthy..I am vibrant...!
6. It is no longer a struggle that dominates my life.
7. I am always healthy and happy!

OK, kids need showers - I'll be back later!

[allgirls]

mom2avasteph~it could very well be related..I quit smoking and it's been a battle ever since...I remember after I quit being such a "b...." and someone saying to me..of course you are, it's because you haven't learned how to cope..smoking was how you coped with life..you have to replace it..guess I replaced it with brownies

So what can I replace food with...sugary, crappy junk food

Also..I am a caffiene addict..I really want to continue drinking coffee...I love my coffee and I think it's too much to try to break that addiction and food at once...but I also think that caffiene is a trigger for overeating..so I guess I will be cutting back..in about a week I hope to be down to 2 cups a day,,then after that down to one...I would like to cut it out completely...we will see how that goes...but one thing at a time...small bites. I really want to do this right and my instincts say "take it slow, do it right"

I think we all need to make this thread a priority in our lives as well. We need to work through this...get in for the long haul...

So how is everyone feeling today?

[veggiemommy]

Good morning ladies!

It is only 6:15am here but I've been up for a LONG time-lots going through my head after binging yet again last night and trying to figure out what the heck is going on!

So at the risk of feeling like you guys will think I'm self-centered for writing about myself first (which is only a part of me--the other part knows that you wonderful ladies would not think that!)--I am going to do just that as I have been processing a lot this am and want to share some of that first!

SO let's see--I woke up feeling restless and grinding my teeth (a sure sign of stress or not dealing with things--I do it a LOT!) so I decided to get up and try to journal. I put on my "Reflections of Nature" cd on my ipod (it's a great cd--I definitely recommend it--it's SO relaxing!) and just started writing--trying to pinpoint the things that were bothering me (my counsellor calls it a 'list of stressors'. Anyway, one of the big things that came up was a conversation that I had with my mom yesterday... she basically had something she wanted my opinion about about--and I think she basically wanted me to agree with her and see her 'side' of things and see that my dad and her were feeling hurt (nothing to do with me) and let them know that they were justified... normally I would have gone to the source and tried to 'fix' the problem as well--which is often what she has done in the past for my grandmother--getting in the middle where I have now realized for sure that she really doesn't belong.

Anyway, so I told her what I *normally* or would have done a few years ago, and then I told her what I really thought... that she was taking this personally and the situation was not at all personal and didn't have anything to do with her, that she was making assumptions about the person that was bothering her that are likely untrue and basically her and my dad (he's the worst at this of the two by far) were making up 'stories' in their heads about all of this and they really needed to be challenged. It was interesting as usually I would have been drawn in and only seen her side especially as she ended up crying as she felt so hurt by the situation but I for once could REALLY see how blown out of proportion it was and relate it to myself and how I would normally react and see how it was actually so hurtful to act like that when I'm in her situation--both hurtful to myself and to those that are involved and are oblivious to what is going through my head!!

I encouraged my mom to just ask the person a few simple questions and that they would likely clear up everything and reduce a mountain back down to a mole hill!

Anyway--that was a bit thing that happened but now of course I'm worrying that she is scared off by my advice or really wasn't ready to hear that... of course I tried to say it in the most gentle way but now I find myself making assumptions as to how she took it!! So I think I might call her today and ask her if she is okay and whether she called the person and hope that she has learned something and isn't freaked out by everything. (As she is pretty scared of therapy in general and always changes the subject if I say that I'm going to counselling... that's a whole other story though!)

The next thing that came up for me was that I asked a friend of mine to go running with me and so we're probably going today... now this is a friend from my prenatal class--about 5 of us became friends but we become a lot closer and I can now see that it was based on the fact that both of us were going to Weight Watchers at the time and that was something that we talked about a lot. We discussed how many points were in this or that, how much we had lost or problems we were having sticking to the points.... Now of course that was after my first born which was 6 years ago....

I decided never to diet again after I had my daughter so the weight came off a lot slower and then I had my 3rd child and a lot of the weight has stuck (from what I know--I haven't weighed myself in a LONG time and don't plan to anytime soon) however she has recently gone back on WW and has lost quite a bit of weight and keeps acting like she wants me to constantly congratulate her... she talks constantly about how many points are in things even though she knows that I don't care and about how much she has lost, how much she has left to loose and what size clothes she can fit in at the different stores... It's very stressful to me as I have been working hard to rid myself of that exact diet mentality and it definitely is a trigger for me--and I guess I feel hurt that she keeps doing it even though she'll say "I know that you don't like to hear about this stuff but...."

UGH!! Anyway, so I have been writing down how exactly I can tell her what my boundaries are regarding all of that stuff and how I expect her to respect my boundaries in order for us to stay friends... Of course that scares the living daylights out of me and I've been wanting to do it for a LONG time but I finally figured out a way to actually say it this am--I wrote it all down and I think I'll "study" it a bit before I go see her today so that maybe I can get it out in at least some sort of sane format when I actually see her. I know that it will be hard and it will likely make things awkward for a while but I know that it is eating me up inside and that it is poisoning our friendship (and she likely doesn't even realize that) and I just keep putting up walls, not seeing her very often and judging everything she says because I'm so upset about this but haven't had the nerve to tell her! SOOO wish me luck ladies and definitely let me know if you have any ideas on how to go about this or how to word it as that is the hardest part! (Oh and I'd love to hear that I am doing the right thing--I'm so afraid of alienating her completely but at this point, that is the chance I am willing to take)

I felt SOOO much better after writing out what I wanted to say--even though I hadn't said it yet--but just knowing that I'm willing to deal with it made me feel more powerful in a way... And that's when I realized that when I make positive changes in the relationships in my life, I feel an immense sense of relief...

Thinking back to an example that happened in a group session--somehow I realized for the first time in my life that when my dad calls me "Holly Hippo" that it was really a term of endearment, not a judgement on my body.... Ever since I can remember he called me that and I took it to heart everytime... eventually I told him that it was mean but I don't think he really 'got it'. He told me that I used to have a thing on my door that was a hippo with my name in the middle and that is where it came from... And that didn't make me feel any better at the time... but during a group session one time we were talking about something and it just clicked for me--that he NEVER meant it in a mean way and it had NOTHING to do with my weight at any point in my life--it was just a pet name to him and he was completely OBLIVIOUS that it affected me the way it did. I decided to call him that night and let him know how it affected me and also that I forgave him and it no longer affected me the way it once did and that I believed him (finally) when he said that it was just a pet name.... Of course then I worried that I hurt his feelings etc. but really--that was not why I did it--anyway--I felt SO much better after doing that--it's so strange how such little things can affect you in such a profound way--kind of scary really when I think that I might inadvertently do something like that to one of my kiddos...

I guess that's where talking to them about not making assumptions and asking questions comes in handy eh? If only I had asked him (and actually BELIEVED him when he gave an answer) why he called me that years and years ago....

So then I decided to do the exercise that CurlyTop mentioned - I did it from memory first and 'screwed up' as I wrote it like "I want to... " rather than in the first person, present tense.... So when I was done, I came and checked out how it was supposed to be done (as I couldn't remember what to do next!) and realized the problem and decided to do it again. (Even though my daughter had woken up and I felt more distracted)

So I did it again and that was good as the most important points came through and it was a really great exercise! I found that some of the things are already true, and MANY are in the works which is great and some I can definitely work towards and it does feel so good to imagine that it IS all possible...

Another thing I realized in counselling is that not only do I push my feelings down with food or just denying that they are happening but what goes along with that is not having any dreams for the future... I haven't really had any dreams for the future in a LONG time... Apart from when I was a little kid, I never knew or had any ideas as to what I might like to be 'when i grow up' and I think that dismissing my feelings and not feeling emotions has a lot to do with that... There is a actually a word for this but I can't remember what it is--but I definitely 'have' that and this exercise really helped me to start to try to make a dream for my future--so thank you so much for that!

Okay I'm going to end here and start a new post to answer the other posts as this is so long and I'm terrified to lose it somehow!

Holly