Emotional eaters wanting to stop the diet mentality and be at peace with food? - Page 3

[veggiemommy]

CurlyTop--NIA class is kind of hard to explain--here is a link to a description for you: http://www.niac.ca/bc/aboutnia.php

I go to it and LOVE it--it makes me feel SO good about myself -- I have found that since I have gone, my self-esteem has improved, I feel more free about my body and have realized that I LOVE dancing! It is a very non-judgemental dance/yoga/martial arts type of class for ANYONE--there are lots of different ages and shapes and sizes in the classes that I have taken and the instructor is just awesome and rarely makes any comments about food etc. which is fabulous for me. (Whereas when I go to an aerobics class, it's always about working off the food that you ate that you shouldn't have etc.)

I HIGHLY recommend that everyone gives it a try--you definitely need to go with an open mind and just ENJOY yourself rather than thinking about whether others are looking at you etc... I have convinced my mom to go with me--she can't go to every class but I think she is going next week and she has been struggling with going as she had surgery on her feet when she was 15 and is very self-conscious about her feet (as it's done barefoot) and I've been trying to assure her that no one is going to be focusing on her feet!

I realized in my visioning exercise that I really want my dh to get a job as a firefighter--before he got laid off in August, he had started taking first aid and air-brake driving classes to prepare him to be a fireman--it is something he has wanted to do for a long time and I used to be TERRIFIED of (thinking only of myself and of course my kids--being scared of him being hurt) but I recently realized that it would make him really happy as he truly likes helping others, was in the navy and did firefighting on the ship and REALLY enjoyed it and that we live in a relatively small, safe city so it wouldn't be nearly as dangerous as I have imagined. He has also talked to our builder a lot about it as he is a firefighter and it just sounds like a dream job--TONS of holidays, great benefits and a lot of friends through the firehall (something he has definitely been missing lately)

Anyway--so it is actually better that he didn't get that other 'dream' job as it had the possibility of taking him away from doing what he REALLY wants to do--if he was paid really well and had no reason to leave then he may have stayed there and then regretted it later that he never tried to become a fireman... So that is a good thing--where he will be working will pay enough for us to get by for now and will help fuel the fire (no pun intended!!) for him to follow his fireman dream--so hey--the universe is actually working in my favor it turns out!

That was so funny to read what your step-mom said to you about her knowing you better than you know yourself!! I have certainly thought that about other people and it's just ridiculous, isn't it? My sister DEFINITELY thinks that about me and gets SO frustrated when I do or say something differently than she would have as I swear she thinks that we should be clones of one another! It's super frustrating but I have yet to get the nerve up to work through some of our issues... I'm practicing on the people that I am less scared of alienating first!

OH and thanks for the ear tug comment--that is hilarious! I totally agree though and thanks for telling me that he is driving you crazy--it somehow made me feel better that you thought that--and you don't know the half of it as I haven't had weeks to tell you about all of the 'incidents'!!! So thank you for that!!

WELCOME femme_rouge--I see myself in your need to read all the posts before you can post and I apologize for being so wordy and delaying the time until you could post!!

I am SO saddened by what your mom did when you were so young... of course I'm sure that she didn't do it to hurt you and hopefully you can see that (or can see it one day) but out of love for you even though it was very unhealthy--but man!! I'm so glad that you found us and that you are going to work through your journey with us as well!! And see--you're not a thread killer either!! I just turned 33 also! Welcome again--I look forward to hearing more from you later!

allgirls--it's so good to have you here and I'm SOOO proud of you for putting away the scale. I know it seems SO scary (at least it did for me!) but it will be SOOO worth it-it's so horrible how we can allow scales to run our lives as it seems that no matter what the heck they say, it can lead to diet mentality behaviour... I can talk more on that if anyone has questions or doesn't trust that... I know that I had to be convinced at first but I know it to be true now!

It's so good that you noticed why you ate the graham crakers with ice cream in them--recognizing what happened--even if it is after the fact--moments, hours, days, weeks, months later is irrelevant--it's just so good to see you putting them together as that is definitely a good thing!

I also wanted to say that I could really relate to your list of why you want to change... the part about wanting to dance at all of your children's weddings and to see the grandchildren had me in tears--I guess partly because I never think that far ahead and I SO want those things too and fear that if I don't get healthy for myself, that I won't be around or at least not be a healthy influence on my kids and grandkids...

Thanks for joining us -- you have helped me a lot already so thank you! :

mom2avasteph Welcome to you too--glad to have you join us as well! -- It is so good to see you realizing the relationship here and how food is an 'acceptable' coping strategy albeit a very bad one (if done constantly!!) I've been working on coming up with a list of alternate coping strategies--perhaps you ladies would help me add to my list and we could continue adding to it as we go and come up with better coping strategies for when we feel overwhelmed with emotion (sadness, anger, frustration, loneliness, depression etc.) I'll start the list:

• Breathing
• Yoga
• Meditation
• Bubble Bath
• Journalling
• Talking to a friend
• Taking a walk
• Going for a run
• Doing a craft
• Singing
• Dancing either with my kids or without
• Listening to music
• Trying to stop the 'story' in my head - ask questions about what the flip side could be

Please do add to the list as I'm sure that you have other ideas as well that work for you and I'd love to learn some new tools--and then work on actually doing them more when I need to!!!

allgirls - I think that you are ABSOLUTELY right in that we need to make this thread a priority in our lives--too many times we put ourselves second (or third or fourth) and I truly believe that we can be better people for ourselves as well as for the people that we usually put ourselves second or third or fourth for if we do this now.... Plus it's a heck of a lot cheaper than counselling (not that you shouldn't do that as well--I'm working on finding a way to do that as well soon I hope....) I plan to keep this a priority and I hope that at least some of you will too--take the time for yourself and realize how VERY important it is... I know that I have a lot of tools but I most often haven't taken the time to use them and to learn from them--often because I don't want to take the time to myself--deep down I think that I don't deserve it and feel like people are judging me for doing so... I know that my dh's old boss definitely used to think that I had it 'easy' and that my dh should not have to feed the kids dinner when he comes home a few nights a week so that I can nurture myself... Man is she ever wrong--but it really did eat me up inside to hear that she actually said what I was afraid that people would think... I think that MANY people still do think that being a SAHM is easy and that you have time for yourself all day and that your DH should get to rest when he comes home when I really know in my heart that there is nothing further from the truth. My dh gets an hour to himself for lunch, 2 coffee breaks and gets to ride his bike to and from work for exercise--that's about 2 hours to himself where he can choose what exactly to do with his time!!!!!!! Anyway--can you tell I'm a little bitter about that?!?!?! Luckily I had other moms validate me in group counselling and that has helped me at least do SOME things for myself when I used to do nothing... so I'm working on it!

Okay I hope that I have answered everyone--I know that I'm always obsessed with someone feeling left out--so I hope that if anyone is feeling that way, that they will speak up and get the love that they need as we can't read your mind or know that you are feeling that way if you don't tell us! (The people that have posted about being afraid of being thread killers are VERY brave--I admit I feel the same way a lot too-especially on this thread as I write pages at a time--I just don't feel 'complete' without doing that somehow it seems!)

Have a fabulous day ladies, I'm hoping that food won't be as much of an issue today since I have had some breakthrough moments and that usually follows... but I'm going to try not to overthink it all! Thanks again for being here everyone!

How is everyone else doing??

Holly

[missingthetrees]

Good morning everyone! I'm still here - and have been reading every post - just haven't either felt 'worthy' of posting my thoughts, or felt that I didn't have the time. Both of which, of course, tell me that I NEED to post!!

I'm still thinking a LOT about the Northrup quote - I even put it in my phone this morning so I can look at it in a font other than my own handwriting!

I've definitely been more aware of eating - trying not to eat for reasons other than hunger, but also being aware of the times when I am eating for non-hunger reasons. That's progress!

So I ordered the "Why Weight" book by Geneen Roth - and I keep checking the tracking number to see when it's gonna get here! For some reason, checking every hour or so is NOT making it get here faster! I'll keep you posted once I start reading it. I'm also interested in Flylady's "Body Clutter". I'm not at all familiar with Flylady (only have heard of her system, never tried it), so any input or thoughts on that would be appreciated.

Another quote I heard yesterday, from George Eliot: (more or less) "It's never too late to be what you might have been." I like it. But what is it that I 'might have been?' Anybody else not really sure what your ideal life IS? I think I hesitate to ask for or expect that I could have an ideal, thinking it's not possible, or not realistic, or selfish. How do you find that balance?

For some reason, I'm hesitating to post stuff about my history - but why? It's certainly not that I don't trust any of you! Is it (again) because I'm not feeling like I'm 'worthy'? Would anybody really WANT to hear about my history? Geez. I'm feeling like such a dweeb this morning. It's even tempting to delete what I've typed. For heaven's sakes. BUT I refuse to delete!! Like has been posted previously, this is an opportunity for journaling, getting our thoughts out into the open. So. There you go. Now you have to read what I typed!! Ok, here's a little more info about me: (are you still reading? ) 41 years old, two kids (DS 6 yo, DD 3 yo), wonderful DH. Presently I'm working full time, early morning hours so DH can have the kids in the a.m., and then I come home and have the kids in the p.m. I'm not especially excited about my job - I'm a legal secretary - but I never really wanted a 'career' - never figured out what I wanted to do when I grew up! DH and I are tossing around trying to figure out if HE could go full time, and I could stay home. Throughout our 22 years together, I've ALWAYS been the major breadwinner, and he's had the opportunity to work part time, be a volunteer minister for several years, pursue music for several years, etc. So can it be my turn now? I sometimes think that's not a reasonable request, since my job brings home a LOT more $$ than DH's job (he works for FedEx), but then again, I'm kinda just plain old TIRED. I want a break. Can the responsibility NOT be on my shoulders for a little while, please?

Wow. Look at all of that! I've never said all of that out loud before.

Anyhoo, weight wise, I've NEVER been at my 'ideal' weight, whatever that is. I first went on Weight Watchers at 10 years old, lost weight and was relatively pleased with myself, but then it came back on. My mom did NOT have a good relationship with food, and looking back on her life (she died about a year and a half ago - I'm sure there's all KINDS of stuff relating to her illness & death that I could delve into, but I'll not do that now...), I can see that she was a TOTAL emotional eater. Never confronted my dad about stuff that upset her; instead, we'd have some noodles & cheese. Or a pan of brownies. I've been on one diet after another the rest of my life. When we moved from Oregon to California when I was 16 (from a tiny tiny town with 12 kids in my entire grade to a city with over 600 kids in my grade) I made myself eat only 800 calories a day for the entire summer so that no one would laugh at me at the new school. I remember crying, literally crying, to my mom about how everybody was skinny in California, and nobody was going to talk to me, let alone LIKE me, because I was too fat. So of course, I lost weight, and was relatively pleased with myself (but was NEVER thin enough) for a time, but a couple of years later, the weight came back again.

Now here's another something I never talked about out loud before, except with DH. When we were first dating, and were really liking each other, with ideas of getting more serious, DH (of course, he was a tall, skinny, long hair rocker dude, black leather jacket & earring ), he actually said he was not sure he could be with somebody that others described as "chunky" (another musician said to him earlier that day "oh, you're dating the chunky sax player?"). I was totally crushed. Some time later I told him how much that hurt me, and he, of course, apologized profusely, and obviously, he got over the idea of being with somebody 'chunky', since we've been married for 20 years!

Well. Here we are now, and I've written almost - but not quite - as much as Holly. I really need to get to work now. Thank you all for reading. Any insights, hugs, thoughts, suggestions, slaps in the face, whatever, would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome to all of you newer posters! Thank you for posting - every one of your stories is very helpful to read and think about - we have soooo much in common, don't we?

Have a good day, all. Thank you again for being there!!!!

MaryBeth

[CurlyTop]

Where did I miss the part about replacing one addiction with food?? This totally happened to me too! I feel such a comraderie with this group, I just find myself nodding the entire time I'm reading here ! My mom and sister and I all smoked cigarettes and thought we were pretty smart for not liking food the way other people did. Dumb, yes, and dangerous. I quit when I moved to Calif and found out I was a pariah! Thin, yes very good, but UGH a smoker was absolutely unacceptable here, thank goddess! My sister will NOT quit smoking out of fear of being fat. She's 43 and trying to be 25 for the rest of her life (ciggies are NOT helping!). My mom finally quit after her DH got throat cancer - he's well now, and both quit smoking. She gained 40 lbs and practically freaked. She dieted it off with internet diet pills. I know she would do ANYTHING to be thin. I guess it's good I live 2500 miles away from her and my sister! And my girls, good grief, if they ever got issues from her I'd be so mad!! I'll trade having "help" from family for protecting my girls from spanking, shaming, and dieting, any day!

My goodness, they have a NIA class at my YMCA! I will check it out Thanks for that!

I got chills reading about Holly's DH dream job of being a firefighter. The universe is always working with you (IMO) and wow! just wow, if he'd been given that other job yesterday he'd have taken a few big steps away from his dream job! I am so impressed, Holly, that you're putting your fears aside and looking realistically at his aspirations. I can imagine how scary it would be having my DH as a firefighter, but you have focused on the life energy he'd be getting from living his dream. He's lucky to have you in his corner.

I love that list of alternatives to eating when feeling unwelcome feelings! I always think of this little saying I heard somewhere when I try to avoid some emotional issue: "Can't go over it! Can't go under it! Can't go around it! Go S-T-R-A-I-G-H-T through it!" Funny, it's so sing-songy like it came from a kid game? Anyway, it's apt. The only way to the other side is straight through the muck. Breathe. Yoga. Journal. Dance. Those are tops on my list right now.

Here's a tool I found that I really like for working through feelings of anger, frustration, etc. toward another person:

copied from http://www.kidseq.com/articles/emotionsgray.php
The Love Letter Technique
The love letter technique is the ultimate way for sharing and expressing the complete truth for resolving emotional conflict both within yourself and in your relationships. It is not only a powerful tool fur emotional healing, but through practicing it, you will learn more about your own feelings and what it really means to tell the truth. In the past five years, thousands of people have attended my seminars and have successfully learned to practice the love letter technique. Heart graduates report that in a matter of minutes, they are able to resolve emotional conflicts that would otherwise have seemed impossible and been repressed.

The Love Letter Format
To write a love letter, begin by expressing your anger, resentment and blame and allow yourself to move through the other levels until you get down to the love. Each love letter has five parts - and the following lead-in phrases may help you if you become stuck at one level and need to move into the next.

1. ANGER AND BLAME
I don't like it when...
I resent...
I hate it when...
I'm fed up with...
I'm tired of...
I want...

2. HURT AND SADNESS
I feel sad when...
I feel hurt when...
I feel awful because...
I feel disappointed because...
I want...

3. FEAR AND INSECURITY
I feel afraid...
I'm afraid that...
I feel scared because...
I want...

4. GUILT AND RESPONSIBILITY
I'm sorry that...
I'm sorry for...
Please forgive me for...
I didn't mean to...
I wish..

5. LOVE, FORGIVENESS, UNDERSTANDING AND DESIRE
I love you because...
I love when...
Thank you for...
I understand that...
I forgive you for...
I want...

Remember: If you want to feel better, write a love Letter!!

I hope this helps someone like it does me. I can actually feel the emotions shift in my chest as I write these. It's about my inner peace, really, more than whatever happened.

Mary Beth I am bowled over by your clarity and courage to write things here you've not said to others IRL. Thank you for trusting us (and of course, you can completely!) What your DH said to you back when was so hurtful. I can only imagine how tough it was for you to tell him so, especially after he'd clearly gotten over it and found himself in love with you. Some might have said you should get over it, the past is the past, but no, it's important you told him and I'm glad he apologized and knows. Probably he already knew and is glad you cleared the air. I'm sorry you had to hear that, though, how painful.

Mary Beth, I have also been the primary breadwinner in my family - until - I took the plunge. DH and I discussed it and decided to trust the universe and make our lives into our ideal. I wanted to stay home with my kids and felt mad that I did all the right things (college, career) and basically trapped myself into being the worker. DH wanted to work in a field he truly enjoyed, that happened not to pay too well, and felt depressed to spend all day at home. I quit my job (we lost 66% of our household income!) and he went to work full time. He had to make some changes in his beliefs and attitudes, and now he's earning $15K more annually and we're almost out of the red each month. Savings is saving us, literally, and I'm changing careers to be an elementary school teacher which is my dream job. I'll earn far less than before, but we'll be in the black! I want to encourage you to trust that you can have the life you really want. Once you are perfectly clear on your true desires and you believe you will have it, providence will come. Say to yourself, I have NO idea how, but I WILL have (the situation you want). Believe it and go. You'll be so surprised at how well taken care of you will be.

Holly, if you went to Hoffman, they'd make you wear "Holly Hippo" on your nametag for the whole week. Everyone would call you that. Jeez, mine said Shelly (thank GOD I didn't tell them the nickname "Shelly Belly" that I hated so much!!) and everytime someone said it the first day I nearly cried. By the end, though, I was where you are - knowing it was never meant to hurt me! I'm so glad you have forgiven your dad and believe him now.

Mary Beth, you also practice Bibliotherapy That's what I call it when I NEED a book to read so I can feel ok again. Tell me the answers, oh wise book! Tell me if I'm misreading you (pun!) and I'll apologize. I just see your symptoms of checking to see where your book is. And I indulge in bibliotherapy too! Sometimes I give myself a book moratorium so I can just see what "I" think, not find out what some book says.

OK, gotta go. Thank you a million times everyone for sharing and writing.

p.s. thank you Holly for answering everyone. I also hope no one feels left out, and I'm reading every word. Sometimes I have a big emotion about what i read but don't know what to say. I hold everyone here in my heart.

[femme_rouge]

Wow, I didn't kill the thread AND people actually responded to what I wrote!

Seriously, thank you so much. I didn't realize how powerful it was going to be. When I read the first reply by CurlyTop, I actually stopped and cried. I haven't been emotionally connected to that part of my life in awhile. I think when I wrote it down it was like jotting down my past on a resume..."here's my relavent past...blah, blah, blah..." Hearing the caring, empathetic responses made me stop and have compassion for my young self. Thank you Holly and CurlyTop.

I've had my eye on this thread for awhile, and I think I've been quite scared of it. I'd recently found myself struggling with the diet mentality, but it was working, right? I was loosing weight, working out...But here was this thread...gently reminding me that deep down, I know better. That however I put it, there's bigger, more important work for me to do. Oh, how scary! To accept and commit to being on this journey. I believe in this process 100%, but does anyone else have such difficulty integrating their emotional self and their heady/thinking self. I do. So, I need to write that down. I'm afraid. Of what? Getting heavy? Getting real? Not having food or food obsessions and my distracting protector?

It has taken me "sleeping on it" last night to really accept my fear of this. I've already done lots of thinking on this just not as much FEELING. Wow just typing this, my heart is beating fast. I binged all day yesterday..I haven't binged like this in along time. I just let myself do it. I tried as much as possible to be aware and mindful of my binge. Does that make sense? It was like, "I'm definely emotionally eating...what does it feel like...is it helping the feelings or numbing them?" It was numbing them. With that thought, I think one of the coping stategies I'm going to add to my list is:

*When other coping stategies do not work, go ahead and eat, but do so mindfully. You know, the whole Geneen Rothe theory...If you're going to eat at the fridge...pull up a chair.

I think for me, before I can move on to other coping devices, I have to understand my relationship with food. To do this, I think I need to not be afraid to observe it. So, I guess that's my first goal, and it is a scary one.

Ok, my kids need me. Thanks everybody! I really want to get back to repond to what has been written, but please forgive me if I'm unable to. You are all in my thoughts.

Christina

[femme_rouge]

I'm back

My DS just went down for a nap, so I decided to keep going. I want to rethink something I wrote: instead of waiting to use other coping devices until I understand my relationship with food, I believe I can do both. I can learn about my relationship with food by observing what happens and how it makes me feel to sooth myself with something other than food. For better or for worse.

Holly, I commend you for standing up for yourself with your friend. Bounderies can be so tough for me at times. I've been working on this too. I think what your doing is great, and since you asked, I think you keeping it about you and your feelings is usually a good way to go. You know, "I" statements, "I have been working hard on my food issues, and I find it difficult to have a conversation about dieting and loosing weight. I've noticed it seems to sabatoge my progress" This is just off the top of my head, and this particular example may not be right for you, but it's just a suggestion. Good luck!

Marybeth, thank you for sharing. Your thoughts are worthy to be here, and I found your brave honesty so helpful. It is interesting many of us seem to have these worth issues. I'm going to have to think about that more. I know it has come up a lot for me before, and lately it's been a part of my thinking; although, I've been saying "the right". Like, I have the right to be healthy. I have the right to be strong. I have the right to treat my body well and not feel bad for it. I have to right to be happy! I have the right to exercise and not feel like a prisoner of my past--afraid of my history of overexercising, so I do nothing instead. I am allowed to grow and learn to make healthy, caring choices for my body and mind.

CurlyTop, I looked into the Hoffman Institute. I'd love to go, but I don't know if I could swing the $. You never know, there's actually one not too far from where I live. Can I ask if the issues truly felt resolved afterwards (I'm sure it's an individual experience though)? That alone would be priceless to me. I have stuff in my past I've been working hard to deal with, but sometimes I can feel so stuck. I wonder if setting aside the time and safe space to just go there is what I need?

Gotta go DD needs me.

Peace, Christina

[allgirls]

Here I am...glad to see everybody..I am so amazed at how honest you all are being...I will write my history soon, I promise..it's crazy and detailed and I only have about 5mins to type until my 12 year old leaves and I have to go back tot he kiddos.

anyway...I wanted to mention something inthe article in O magazine I read.

It talks about making change and why it's so hard..it's because we respond to the cortisol our brain releases immediately after we do something pleasant for us(ie eat crappy food) so when we talk about rewarding ourselves with something else it needs to be immediate. That's why we often fail...we say "if I exercise every day for a week I will buy myself a book" but what we need to do is go to the library, pull out a stack of books and after exercising immediately read. In times of stress, grab the book...the thing with food is it's easy...so we have to make it hard and the other fun/good thing easier and immediate. I am struggling with what to replace stress with but so far I have decided to run to the computer for 5 minutes or so to wind down..it does wind me down and give me pleasure..it's tough with the kids but last night I brought them all up to bed at 8"30, got them to sleep and rewarded myself with a hour of screen time.

I just wanted to throw that out there..I have been trying to put it into practice and it seemsto be helping..I have books and magazines all over the house and my goal is to grab one anytime I am stressed and feel like eating crap. In the meantime I am filling my body full of good stuff and drinking lots of water as well...and FTR I am eating a LOT of food...I am very stuffed from the lentil soup I had for supper. I am making it a priority right now to fill my body with nutrients because I think I am very deficient in a lot of things. I don't want to supplement, I want to fill it up with real food.

Off to google NIA!~cheers

[veggiemommy]

Hi ladies!

I just wanted to say that I am learning so much from the most recent posts here but I am SOOOO very exhausted today (could be the getting up at 4?!?! Or that I went for an hour and a half walk with my sister--she called me and asked me which was so nice and then went swimming with my mom and my 3 kiddos and my neice and my mom's friend -- my mom also called and asked me which was so nice as usually I have to be the instigator in things)--anyway I wish I could crawl into bed right now (and have felt like that for a few hours and it's only 6:18!!) so I don't know if I have the energy to write....

Actually I think I need some water now that I've had a second to think about myself--I feel totally dehydrated---I'll be back....

I realized that I was also really hot--I was freezing after swimming (and the pouring rain--my walk was in the pouring rain too and I was still recovering!)... so I took off my sweater and drank a bunch of really cold water and I feel MUCH better now!

So maybe I can post!!

missingthetrees--I too felt like I have no idea where I might like to be but have been finding that I am slowly figuring that out--that visioning exercise actually helped with that as well --I too never knew what I wanted to do when I grew up or had any dreams or aspirations for the future and I often felt really sad about that and wondered what the heck was wrong with me... and then I found out that it is related to the unconscious pushing down of emotions that I had been doing for so many years and so as I work through emotions, I seem to be getting a clearer picture of my goals and dreams which is SO fabulous--so don't feel bad for not knowing now as it will come!

Thanks for sharing your history with us--it really does help us to know a little where you are coming from and I can relate to a lot of that... I can also relate to being the bigger breadwinner... I always was but there was no question that I would stay home with the kids as my husband has generally really liked his work whereas I have hated most of my jobs--I was never happy and was often bored and once I had kids, I despised work even more as I wanted to be home with them. Quitting my full time, well paying, fabulous paying, excellent holidays & pension and union job at the local university to stay home with my kids and do JamTots was TERRIFYING! I put it off as LONG as possible--I had 8 months off after I had my first son, then went back to work and got pregnant soon after (luckily!) and then was off for a year (that was when we started JamTots) with my daughter and then went back to work (AND did JamTots) and was pregnant again quickly after that and ended up on bedrest for 5 months (while I busily set up our new website on a laptop so I could rest!) so I was hardly at work... then I had a year maternity leave again and then quit when it was done--and it was REALLY scary as I was the one with the good pay, the stable job, the benefits and everything else and my dh had been laid off by several companies--every job he has had he has been laid off of--many closed down or moved to a bigger city or whatever but it was really scary... Now of course it is still stressful as I take VERY little for a 'salary' from JamTots as all of the money goes right back into the business but I dream of the day that we'll actually get to be paid what I think we deserve for all the millions of hours we have done for nothing (before I quit my job) or for VERY cheap 'wages'! Of course I have such a passion for JamTots and that's the only reason I keep going as there are no guarantees but it certainly would be nice for us to get to a place where we can make a half-decent wage and still be able to have the company grow...

All that just to say that I can relate and if you want it to happen, I'm sure you guys can make it happen and you will likely be really happy that you did it. I sure am--I can't imagine being away from my kiddos again and when I was, I dreaded EVERY minute of it although it's DAMN hard at the same time!

And oh my goodness I can't believe your dh actually said that way back when--boy was he wrong eh?? How horrible for you--I hope that doesn't affect you anymore as you know that it obviously wasn't true!!

Curlytop--I definitely agree with the replacing one addiction with another--my BIL is having alcohol 'issues' and I keep trying to convince my sister that we (my dh and I) aren't judging him but we know that it is just a coping mechanism (just like food is) and that he needs to go to therapy and figure out what the root problems are in order to deal with it... at least that's the way I see it... We know he isn't trying to be an alcoholic and that it seems like it is out of his control (which I'm sure it is) and that he needs help... He won't go to AA as he heard that it was religious and he's not and so I think that some talk therapy would be so helpful but I don't think he'll ever go. I so wish there wasn't such a stigma about therapy ugh!!! EVERYONE can use it I swear--it's SOOOO helpful!!!

The whole believing that the universe will work things out is so new to me but I am finding myself believing it more and more lately... I could never do that before as I was SUCH a pessimist and didn't believe in any kind of religion and anything that seemed ANYTHING like religion would scare me away... I find that I am much more open to that and while I'm not sure I'll ever be religious, I can definitely see that the universe seems to make things happen or things happen 'for a reason' now when I never used to be able to so I think that's a good thing!

That little song is HILARIOUS--I remember singing that when I was a kid--I should definitely write that down and remember that one--it's SO true--thanks for telling us about it--that might actually work for me!!

I think I should definitely try that love letter thing too--what a good tool that looks like--I definitely need help with the beginning phrases sometimes so I can picture that really helping me so thank you so much for sharing!

That's hilarious about the Holly Hippo nametag--phew if I ever go, I've gotten over that issue already!! I emailed them and asked about their books so I'll wait to see what they have to say...

Hahaha bibliotherapy--I TOTALLY do that--buy EVERY book on whatever it is I want to learn about--I swear my husband gets so mad when I bring yet another book home! I think it's better than some of the alternative things I could be buying--I really do seem to learn SOMETHING new with each book although many say similar things (Especially diet books and pregnancy books!!)

femme_rouge--I can relate to your comments about what am I afraid of--I am still trying to figure that out as obviously something is still left in there... It's like I'm afraid that if I start eating mindfully that I will never be able to pig out on the couch and soothe myself again when I REALLY need it and that I won't have a way to make myself feel better.... But in reality--I could still do that if I really needed to--but can also choose not to do it--at least some of the time--now why should that be so scary? I can still go back and do what I have always done--there's no saying that I have to change all at once or NEVER binge again if I want to but somehow it just seems so scary--who would I be without being an overeater??

I think that I sometimes binge because I still have some diet mentality left--like I think "okay this time I"m going to really do it--eat mindfully and not eat on the couch or read while I'm eating and sit down and take a few breaths first and ask myself what I need..." and so I binge until the time when I'm going to start--and it seems like the time can never be NOW as that is WAY too scary! Any ideas on working through that my brilliant ladies?!! Do you think that was possibly part of why you binged all day yesterday?? Just thinking about committing to this was scary for you?

I have not yet stood up for myself with my friend--and I'm kind of glad I haven't yet (it was pouring with rain so we postponed our run until tomorrow am--so think of me at 8am pst!!) because the way you are wording it--remembering to keep it about me and using "I" statements is really important and I likely wouldn't have done that otherwise--just trying to get it all 'out' so I will really work on how to do that tonight so hopefully I can do just that tomorrow--I'll let you know how it goes--this way I can't chicken out! (Or at least it's less likely I think!!) Anyway, wish me luck--I'm terrified!!!!

Oh my goodness I just about had heart failure - my mouse clicked somewhere by mistake and I thought that I lost my whole post!!! Man that's what I get for being so wordy--my worst fear--having to rewrite a huge post like that!!!

Allgirls--that's really interesting about the O article--I'll have to try that--reading that is when I want to emotional eat--I too have found the computer and reading therapeutic but hadn't really realized how immediate the behaviour has to be so that is really helpful to know for sure!! Food is a really fast fax so we have to think of other fast fixes--thanks for sharing that!

Here's our list again:

* Breathing
* Yoga
* Meditation
* Bubble Bath
* Journalling
* Talking to a friend
* Taking a walk
* Going for a run
* Doing a craft
* Singing
* Dancing either with my kids or without
* Listening to music
* Trying to stop the 'story' in my head - ask questions about what the flip side could be
*Type on this thread immediately
*Read a book or magazine immediately
*When other coping stategies do not work, go ahead and eat, but do so mindfully.

I definitely agree that the last one should be there--especially the mindful part--trying to observe yourself is a really good idea too...

Okay I think I'm done again--wow--I'm feeling much better--not so exhausted, not wanting to dive into the goodies that I baked and binged on last night (although I might have some *mindfully* later if I want some--but of course that feels like it won't be as much 'fun' or 'soothe' me as much--obviously there is more going on here and I'm seeing that so that is good! I find I eat when I'm tired too--and food does seem to help wake me up so it's a pattern that has worked for me in the past but perhaps I'll try to go to bed soon (it's now 7!) once I get the kids down instead of staying up and eating... Although I'm worried that if I go to bed too early, I'll be up even earlier tomorrow am!! DOH!!

I wanted to say that I really notice how much it really touches me when people say things directly to me--about how something worked for them or giving me suggestions or just being able to see what I was saying or relate to something... I guess I'm feeling validated and I really appreciate it a lot as I think that is something that is missing a lot in my 'real' life... so thank you for doing that for me ladies--it means more than you know!!

Have a great night and I'll try to report back after my run... hopefully it goes better than I'm imagining--I feel sick just thinking about it--change and confrontation is just SOOO scary for me!! Or I feel like she just won't take me seriously as she often does... aaagh!

Anyway, I might come back and read later if I stay up for a bit but perhaps some of you guys are in bed if you are on the east coast anyway...

Good night!
Holly

[allgirls]

you know my dh said something similar to me when we were first dating..he said I wasn't the shape he preferred in women..he likes small breasts and bigger butts...it really really really hurt especially since I thought I had recovered from all my body image issues...

It's very hurtful now matter how confident we are we want to be our SO's ideal.

When we met I was very fit, had done body for life for over 2 years straight ,ate relatively well and thought I had conquered all that...but that comment..you know what..umm...I thought I had forgotten about it...I have to deal with that. I probably was the healthiest in body and attitude that I had ever been.

I thought it was gaining weight, 2 pregnancies...I mean I had a handle on this food thing for a long time...I wasn't skinny by any means but I liked the way I looked, I had confidence and I felt attractive and sexy. I felt that way all through my pregnancy with my third baby...but I never got my fitness back and I feel really crappy now.

I think I really have to work through this...meditate on it. My dh is so not a hurtful person...I have never told him that it hurt me as much as it did because he would have felt so awful about it.

He also isn't complimentary though and maybe if he complimented me occasionally on the way I looked over the years it would have balanced out. I know why he isn't complimentary..he had a previous girlfriend who was very needy of compliments and he would try and sh ewould be upset by his complement or doubt he really meant it and after a while he got afraid.

and I know that I should not be thinking about what others think but it all contributes I am sure, to that feeling that we don't quite measure up for those most important to us, our spouses, parents.

I think someday I will adress this with him..not yet..I am not ready..but someday maybe, if I need to to be healthy.

Veggie mommy..you completely exhausted me when I read about your day...wow...sounds like you had a great one!

dancing...I LOVE dancing...maybe I should do that when I feel like eating...hit play on the cd player and just dance dance dance!

[eldadeedlit]

allgirls... i love what you said about rewarding yourself immediately. not sure what i will do to reward myself in times of stress, yet, but that is a good point, especially since i have a particularly hard time delaying gratification!

now, my husband thinks i look great and always does, and i have always (even when i was 125 lbs!) thought he must be nuts. i am GLAD that he thinks i look great but i can't internalize that. i just don't see what he does.

i wish i could find this picture of me on the beach in japan...in a bikini! i thought i looked so fat at the time! i looked at it recently and thought "veronica, are you crazy???" obviously "feeling" fat or thin or attractive or not is all in our heads. it is so hard to get out of the mentality though, that if i could just lose 30 lbs i'd feel great!

i just took a book out of the library.. "life is hard, food is easy." so far, so good.

ok i must run. talk to you ladies later!

[allgirls]

We are programmed for instant gratification...it's in our wiring..we get gratified, cortisol is released..simple biology...and for many of us we only get the cortisol when we eat because we have stress in our lives.

I am thinking the key is to find joy in your day other than food. Being mindful and enjoying now is part of it. I mean if you don't get joy in exercise there is no point in making it your reward...make the reward something after exercise..I do love to dance though so I am thinking I will introduce more music into my life...maybe just have the radio on during the day would help..I have an extra clock radio in my closet...I hated it as an alarm but it still works as a radio well.

Veronica...I recently saw a picture of my self..actually a video...my 12 year old was 2 so I was about 31 and in a bikini..I remember feeling fat during that period in my life...I see the video now and go "wow..I was HOT" but at the time I had no idea. I thought I was fat then...geez louise...I was gorgeous..I never knew I was gorgeous.ever. I had no makeup on, my hair was wet, I was in a pool...and I looked wonderful. Healthy, vibrant, alive. I have never felt that in my life. But it looks like I used to be that way.

Maybe I still am Maybe the weight doesn't mask that at all.

and maybe it doesn't matter anyway..if I can regain my health then feeling vibrant, healthy and alive will make all the difference.

I want my health back...that's what I want most of all.

By the way...I had NO icecream and graham crackers at all yesterday...I had some graham crackers and organic peanut butter and probably ate too many but I did not eat mindlessly at all yesterday...how cool is that?

I do have a couple challenges coming up though...the first being my DH getting home tomorrow night...it just changes the dynamic at home, makes me happy and stressed at the same time...kids don't sleep as well etc. etc.

Plus my period is due on Wednesday...all those things combined it's going to be a busy one.

and when dh is home he works on the paperwork for the business so I don't get my computer time. I think I am going to insist on half an hour every day at least as some down time for me. I need that down time.

Take care everyone.





We are so screwed up in our thinking

[GouGou]

Hi. I'll jump right in. It's strange to me that I still struggle with this, and how the struggle has metamorphosed with all the changes in my life. I'm a psychologist and I help others work through their issues, body, relationships, addictions, trauma... When I'm with patients and working hard in sessions, I feel rewarded and competent and sated. Even when I eat a couple of cookies at work, I don't feel punitive towards myself; I don't feel like I've crossed a boundary. But when I take that hat off and put on my wife and mommy hat, all I feel is depleted.

A couple of you who wrote talked about the stress-boredom combination. I totally relate to that. I think that's what "depletion" feels like. My children are small and demanding. We just bought a beautiful house and my DH is working his butt off to pay for it (his is the main income right now), so I feel like I can't ask him for much more than he already does. My mom is here 3-4 days a week to help with the kids, but that's a mixed blessing. She's great with the kids, so I have tremendous peace of mind while I'm at work. On the other hand, she's not very giving emotionally... at least not with me, she's not. There's something important about the story of how I was weaned from the breast when I was a baby. I was a year old. One day I bit her nipple really hard, and she decided, "That's IT!!!" She took me to her mother's house and left me there all day, and then never allowed me to nurse again. Psychodynamically-analytically minded people would locate a lot of my struggles in that very early abandonment.

Anyhow, my "m-o" is that I don't eat anything that's bad for me. I only eat healthy, mostly unprocessed food; I love to cook and bake. But I eat because I'm bored-stressed-depleted. It's the quickest, easiest way to "give" myself something; to cause myself a moment of pleasure. For that one moment it works beautifully, but the consequences are... well, you all know what the consequences are.

I should also add that I recently lost about 30 lbs (lingering postpartum weight that came off with some pretty heavy-duty restricting) and have put about 10 back on (because that degree of restriction is simply not sustainable in the long run or even the short run). On the one hand, I want so much to be sane about my body; I want to be "normal" about food, about how I feed myself and my children; the example I set especially for my daughter who's almost 4. On the other hand, I'm so hurt when I see pants hanging in the closet that are once again too tight to wear comfortably.

I really want OUT of this crazy cycle. How is it that I can help others but still struggle so bitterly myself?

Thank you all for your stories. I hope my stories will help you as well.

Gougou

[allgirls]

Welcome GouGou

Originally Posted by GouGou

My children are small and demanding. We just bought a beautiful house and my DH is working his butt off to pay for it (his is the main income right now), so I feel like I can't ask him for much more than he already does.

This rings so true for me as well. Lately though, I have been wondering if I have even been fair to him..he would be devastated if he knew I needed something he could provide and I didn't tell him I needed it. I think he would prefer that to the burnt out flipped out me he gets occasionally when I am tired of kids yelling "MOM" six billion times a day:

The weaning thing..wow..that's so sad. I have a three and a half year old and I am trying to wean her..she is down to 2or 3 times a week and I worry so much that if I force her she will be damaged..YET I need it to be done kwim...I will not force it though..in fact I think it will be better if I let her decide..when I was just letting her nurse once a day she went down to several times a week...so maybe she's just not ready yet. I know she's not ready. sigh.

I LOVE to cook and bake..but it does get a little overwhelming cooking two meals a day...for dinner. When my husband is home I tend to let him barbeque for him and the kiddos and I make my dinner..much easier...

Baking..I love it..it's horrible not to be able to just eat one or two of the cookies..heck I eat half the cookie dough before they hit the oven. Much as I love it I think I will just have to forgo it for now.

well I promised my 12 year old computer time.

chat later

[GouGou]

Hi AllGirls. I'm thinking a lot these days about deprivation and compensation. I think that this is what you're resonnating to as well. They seem to be the "dysfunctional" manifestation of need and contentment or desire and fulfillment, which is just part of being human. So what is it, or how is it, that healthy things like desire and fulfillment transform into deprivation and compensation? For some people deprivation in early life translates into entitlement. We all know people who are just innately "entitled" somehow. But that's not the road I went down. My feelings of deprivation give rise to compensation of a sort that ultimately doesn't fill the void (any more than the entitled person's void is filled when their demands are met...they obliterate the free will of others). I can't help but think that the void is something that was created "relationally". Those who were supposed to be attending to us during critical times failed to do so. In my case, there's a sense of hopelessness that, even if I were able to communicate to my DH what my void is about, he wouldn't be able to do anything about it. And in some ways, that's true isn't it. There's no way to make up for early abandonment and deprivation, and the accompanying belief that to need and desire are wrong and overwhelming to others. I believe this cycle is what I create each time I grab another handful of cashews. For a moment, I acknowledge and feed the void, but a moment later I'm angry at myself for having the void and for having needed something.

By the way, my son is 18 months old and I am still nursing. My mom has huge issues with this, and discouraged me from the beginning. With my first baby, who's now 3, I actually gave in and gave her a bottle, and regretted it bitterly. I was determined to succeed in breastfeeding my son, and when my mom asked me when I planned to wean, all I told her was, "In a way, I'm weaning myself, aren't I. And I'm just not ready to do that yet".

Here he is pulling at my t-shirt. Gotta go!

Thanks for talking with me. Thanks for listening.

GouGou

[UptownZoo]

Hi everybody,
I want very much to post replies to everyone, but it doesn't look like I'm even going to catch up tonight. My computer is in the shop getting fixed and so I'm using DH's, which is a clunky, ancient thing that I hate to use!

I really wanted to check in because I'm having a hard time. The stress of being in pain, of getting behind on all the housework and laundry, of my littlest being wild from being housebound (my health plus the weather), etc., plus the terrible impact that the pain medicine has on my mood... well, it's not a recipe for excellent mental health! I haven't binged, and I haven't eaten sugar (always a trigger for me, so very unsafe), but I'm just unhappy with the way I've been eating. Worse, though, is when things get a little wacky with food, I get so scared that I'm gonna go off the deep end, KWIM? Like some people were talking about earlier, the perfectionist in me can't handle it. If it's not all perfect, then I'm afraid I'll throw in the towel.

Anyway, deep breath. I have to acknowledge that this is very, very hard for me, emotionally. Being in pain and laying on the couch is just way too reminiscent of a big ole' depression. Yesterday I had less pain and DH had a half work day, so we went out and did some stuff and, even though I paid with even worse pain in the evening, it was so worth it for the impact it had on my mood! My surgery should be soon, and I'm just praying that this pain can be resolved (at least mostly) and I can get back to doing the things that help me stay mentally well.

I'll try to catch up more later on; I should have my 'puter back by Mon or Tues, so that'll make it much easier. Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Thank you all for being here!

[allgirls]

ah..your mother suspects she did wrong..she's not 100% confident in her choice...I think she feels validated whenever someone else makes that choice to abrubtly wean as she did..the fact that you are not doing it means you disagree with her and that makes that wee niggling feeling come back that she made a selfish choice.

I have no idea what people think who discover I am nursing my 3.5 year old along with her baby sister...I get lots of wtg and you are doing great for nursing my 14mos old...lol..and I usually say "I wouldn't do it any other way"

You are right about the void..no matter what it is..my mother was critical, my ex husband was a verbally abusive person to me as well..all those things created that void. It's funny but the year before and after I left him I really turned things around for myself and thought I had conquered this but then I had 2 more babies..nothing like those hormones for setting you up and knocking you down .

I remember feeling very unloved by my mother growing up...now I know that she did and she was a very hard working loving mother but very critical and worried what people thought etc. etc. My father was a saint...the best man I have ever known except my current dh and his father is a close second, my FIL.

I think for me the void is probably a lack of a very positive female person in my life...that I can truly respect completely...I do have a friend but I mean a mother figure...my mother, I have come to terms with after a blowup a couple years ago...and I don't feel the resentment really...but I think it's still there...I hug my kids a lot...I never had that and boy would that have been awesome.

Also when I was growing up if I asked for something it was met with ridicule and sarcasm and I was made to feel a burdenh...I know my mother worked hard, was stressed and such but there is a right and wrong way to say NO...but after years and years I became afraid of asking for something because of the dreaded no and because I feel I am bothering people. I don't want to be a bother. I could never do sales for this very reason even though the rest of my personality is ideal for that type of work.

uptownzoo...I hope you feel better soon..I was sick last week and had a wee taste of what you are feeling...it's very stressful We have a brand new house and I felt like it was suddenly dirty and old and gross and I had so worked at keeping up prior to that. and then day after day I wasn't all that much better, plus the kids all home from school. I am glad you see the light at the end of the tunnel...just a suggestion but is there anyone you can call to come over, clean the house, take care of things a bit for you etc. when is your surgery? People really do love to help. Hang in there

[eldadeedlit]

GouGou,

i can relate to a lot of what you are saying. my husband works hard to pay the mortgage too. really, we are stretching it. we bought a $230,000 house straight out of college. my husband has only been working for about 2.5 years now and makes about $60,000/year, which is good for a recent graduate but this is an expensive area to live in. i sah and sell rare/out of print books through amazon, which is stressful but fun. oh yeah i got off track! my husband works so hard i feel bad asking for much from him, which means that i am often stressed and exhausted trying to care for three small children and run the home business and take care of the house by myself. i am working toward my master's degree and will be starting online classes again later this month. i am actually REALLY excited about this. i love school. when i was going last winter before the baby was born, it was a nice break. i am doing (one of the things) i love...literature. and this semester i am taking a shakespeare class.

i guess that is one of the big reasons i eat. i feel like i have nothing to look forward to. every day just blends into the next in a long stressful, boring and lonely chain. food is something i can look forward to. like last night my dh and i went to see saw iii and i was looking forward to eating candy in the theater. i am trying to get some other things to do though, not involving food, to look forward to. if it snows, we are going to a snowshoe hike later this month, and i'm looking into free swing dance lessons nearby. i know that's not immediate, but at least that is something other than food to look forward to, you know?

sorry this has been so rambly. my kids are watching a tape and i can't think straight!

i read a good idea in the book "life is hard, food is easy." she says for self-esteem issues, make a list of all of the good traits you have-- or have had in the past-- and look at it frequently. this really spoke to me, because i used to be a really fun, outgoing and wacky person and i really haven't been that way since i have been an adult. i know i could be that way though since i was not that long ago! i think if i keep affirming to myself that i AM fun and outgoing, in the present tense, i could become that way again, kwim?

ok. i'll post again if i think of something else. again i'm sory if this is rambly and nonsensical.

Originally Posted by GouGou

Hi. I'll jump right in. It's strange to me that I still struggle with this, and how the struggle has metamorphosed with all the changes in my life. I'm a psychologist and I help others work through their issues, body, relationships, addictions, trauma... When I'm with patients and working hard in sessions, I feel rewarded and competent and sated. Even when I eat a couple of cookies at work, I don't feel punitive towards myself; I don't feel like I've crossed a boundary. But when I take that hat off and put on my wife and mommy hat, all I feel is depleted.

A couple of you who wrote talked about the stress-boredom combination. I totally relate to that. I think that's what "depletion" feels like. My children are small and demanding. We just bought a beautiful house and my DH is working his butt off to pay for it (his is the main income right now), so I feel like I can't ask him for much more than he already does. My mom is here 3-4 days a week to help with the kids, but that's a mixed blessing. She's great with the kids, so I have tremendous peace of mind while I'm at work. On the other hand, she's not very giving emotionally... at least not with me, she's not. There's something important about the story of how I was weaned from the breast when I was a baby. I was a year old. One day I bit her nipple really hard, and she decided, "That's IT!!!" She took me to her mother's house and left me there all day, and then never allowed me to nurse again. Psychodynamically-analytically minded people would locate a lot of my struggles in that very early abandonment.

Anyhow, my "m-o" is that I don't eat anything that's bad for me. I only eat healthy, mostly unprocessed food; I love to cook and bake. But I eat because I'm bored-stressed-depleted. It's the quickest, easiest way to "give" myself something; to cause myself a moment of pleasure. For that one moment it works beautifully, but the consequences are... well, you all know what the consequences are.

I should also add that I recently lost about 30 lbs (lingering postpartum weight that came off with some pretty heavy-duty restricting) and have put about 10 back on (because that degree of restriction is simply not sustainable in the long run or even the short run). On the one hand, I want so much to be sane about my body; I want to be "normal" about food, about how I feed myself and my children; the example I set especially for my daughter who's almost 4. On the other hand, I'm so hurt when I see pants hanging in the closet that are once again too tight to wear comfortably.

I really want OUT of this crazy cycle. How is it that I can help others but still struggle so bitterly myself?

Thank you all for your stories. I hope my stories will help you as well.

Gougou

[eldadeedlit]

oh yeah! gougou, i find it interesting that you say you eat healthy food and still have a problem. i have to admit i wondered if that was possible. my problem has been with sweets. i LOVE eating in general... healthy food too... japanese and indian in particular. i have been doing better w/ the sweets, but i will have to be on guard about just switching to an obsession w/ eating the healthy stuff.

[veggiemommy]

Good morning ladies!

Wow a lot of posting since I was here yesterday--I'm so glad to have some more ladies join us and I'll speak to the things that are big for me but honestly, I don't know if I can keep up with commenting on everything--that's stressing me out!!(The perfectionist coming out with all or nothing thinking I see!!)

Okay I'll start with me so I don't forget as that seems to work best for me.

I DID IT!! I went for a run with my friend yesterday and about 3/4 of the way through our run I finally got enough courage up to tell her what boundary I needed to set in our relationship and it went incredibly well!! She said she was worried that I was going to say something horrible like her whole personality sucked and needed to change and was so relieved that it was something so small so that was awesome!

We also talked a lot after that about a lot of the other things that I am working on and she is surprisingly open and eager to hear what I had to say and agrees with a lot of it whereas I was worried that she would think that I was crazy! I realized that she has a bit of a controlling dh and that some of his personality traits are actually quite similar to things I used to do (before I was "enlightened"!!) and that was really interesting as I guess that is part of why we became friends to begin with... However those 'traits' are driving her nuts about him and he's not ready to see that they need to be changed and possibly never will so that is hard of course...

Anyway, it was such a relief to have done that and I just feel so much closer to her because of it--it's so fabulous!!!

The next big thing that happened yesterday is that my son (who just turned 6)-- out of the blue-- told my dh that he didn't like it when my dh teases him when he is with his friend Todd or our brother-in-law. My dh was offended at first (initial reaction) but quickly realized how he needed to apologize and assure him that he will stop doing that.... I had noticed him doing that before but hadn't really noticed if you know what I mean--when he said that, I could remember that happening but it hadn't really registered at the time. I made sure to tell my son how fabulous it was that he told his dad what he needed so that he could change what he was doing and that was so great because daddy didn't know that it bothered him because he can't tell what is in his mind etc. I was sure to make him feel secure in doing that again--saying what he needs--in the future--something neither my dh or I would have been secure enough to do in our childhood (heck I'm just learning to do that now!!)

I couldn't be more proud--and happy that obviously we must be setting a good example for him or at least making him secure enough in himself to put that out there!!

That was on the way to the museum--it was by donation yesterday so we went as we usually can't afford it--so we went there and I was just SO exhausted... I had brought a picnic type lunch for everyone but I didn't eat as I had a late breakfast (after my run) and so then when we were going home I was craving fries... so we went and got some new york fries and I had those (man my salivery glands are going just typing that!) and then came home and slept as we were all so tired! I think I ate the fries to help wake me up--or relax me so I could sleep--I'm not sure but I wish I had chosen something else... Then we got up for a while and then the kids went to bed and my dh and I watched a movie--when I realized how hungry I was--however I ended up just munching a bunch of different things in front of the tx and not feeling good about that yet again. Note to self: must not eat on the couch as obviously I am NOT being mindful when I do that nor paying attention to my body as I'm either watching the tv or reading something...

Anyway--was trying to journal and figure out what was going on yesterday but not much has come up as of yet... so I'm feeling a little frustrated--I thought that I would be doing better food wise as I dealt with a big problem in my life (the thing with my friend triggering the diet mentality in me) but for some reason that didn't really help... Perhaps it's because I realized that while I feel like I can be honest with her and not read her mind or expect her to read mine etc.... there are few other people that I have felt safe enough to do that with--to tell them my innermost thoughts.... my dh is one, my sister-in-law is another and my business partners I'm pretty good with but that's about it... oh my grandmother is another and I'm SLOWLY working on my mom.... however there are so many people left and perhaps I'm feeling overwhelmed by that although it will be so nice for everyone to see the 'new' me and for me to be able to fully BE that new me and not be different for some people...

Okay off to re-read some posts as I forget what I was going to say!!

allgirls--that is terrible about your dh however I do have to say that having a dh that is complimentary doesn't necessarily help--it certainly hasn't helped me as I don't believe him and just think deep inside that he just wants something from me when he says something nice... I think it definitely has to come from the inside--I actually told my friend today that I did NOT want people to talk about my weight or body even if I was losing weight--because I think that was part of the problem--I would lose weight, get TONS of compliments, think that I was feeling great and then I would gain some back--being afraid of not being able to stay at that weight or get more compliments and then of course no one would say anything (and no one has for a long time) and so I would feel worse and worse which didn't help of course... Anyway--just the other side of things for ya!

I think you are absolutely right about being mindful and trying to live in the moment--I went on a 3 day 'retreat' (although it was really just 3 intensive group therapy days in my own city--so I would go home at night) and found that I started living in the present and food was such a NON issue--it was amazing!! The forward and past thinking is really not a great thing most of the time--living in the moment is so very healthy!

I too have pictures of when I was younger and think "man how did I think I was hideous then??"--I've always had a warped body image for sure... when I see a picture of myself now, I'm SO discusted and don't believe that is what I actually look like--that it must just be a VERY bad picture that adds pounds or something! What is that about?!?! Somehow I think I look better than I actually do?!! I think it's true that how you look is all in your head... I've been trying to work so hard to accept myself the way I am and to build my self-esteem but it's so hard for me it seems....

GouGou it's SO good to have you here--it completely makes sense to me that at work, it's a non-issue but at home where you are a mom, it is. I find that too--when I used to work, it was MUCH easier to deal with these things as you actually have pockets of time TO YOURSELF--you are not completely drained and having to give all of your attention to little ones all the time.... When I was on bedrest and my kids were in daycare and I was working a LOT on our new website, I had NO issues with food--I was able to think about myself, think about what I wanted and eat it and stop when I had enough... And when I have a day or evening when I can go to JamTots and help out there (as usually I just work from home doing 'virtual' stuff) then I have NO food issues there either--as I'm not distracted by little ones! So then I wonder if it will be easier once all my kiddos are in school--however that is 5 years away and I'm SURE there must be a way to figure out a balance when being with them as well... I just haven't done it yet...

I wish I had worked through a lot of this before I was a mom--I have seen other single people work through things and they seem to get to the next 'level' much faster--but then again maybe I would have had difficulties when I had kids anyway since your whole entire life changes!

I once wanted to be a dietician, thinking that would help me with food--once I 'knew' it all, then I could do it--but I was afraid to be a dietician that had food obsessions and that likely would have happened if I didn't get help.... I also went and took courses at the University to become a personal trainer--again thinking that if I knew it all then I would do it... not true either--so I can relate a little bit to how you must feel--being a therapist but not being able to help yourself.... Of course you must realize how great therapists are and recognize that everyone could use the help of one (at least that is how I see it) so I would hope that you could give yourself the gift of going to one too so that you can get some help for yourself for all that you do for others. Although I'm not a therapist, I feel like I have a lot to share and can help others but struggle with helping myself also... What would you say to me about that--as likely it would apply to you also...

My daughter who turned 4 in October is still nursing as is my son who will be 2 in February... and my mom makes comments too--I wonder if it is out of guilt for weaning us earlier on... She used to talk about how fabulous she was for nursing and that we HAD to nurse too so it was just a given growing up but then I think she somehow felt threatened when I nursed longer than her and then nursed through 2 pregnancies and tandem nursed 2 times... I hadn't really thought of it that way before.. (thank you allgirls). I sometimes feel like I would like my 4 year old to stop and I think if she did, my son likely would too as he rarely thinks to ask--it's usually just when my daughter brings it up... but I would be sad if he stopped already as he's still so young! I'm tearing up just thinking about it! I definitely don't want to force it--and my daughter hardly ever remembers to ask now--I'm actually surprised that I still have milk - it will be interesting to see what happens I guess....

uptownzoo--I'm sorry you're in so much paid... as far as sitting on the couch and not being able to do what you want to... I had to do that with 2 pregnancies (although I wasn't in pain--so not the same for sure) and I found that when I was working on a new website for JamTots and feeling like I had something important to do, that I felt a lot better about everything... Are there some things that could be done that are productive while you are having to be on the couch? I also did things like learn how to crochet and knit and did puzzles and wrote letters and of course you could journal... Can you think of anything that you would like to do that would make you feel more productive and focus less on having to sit there all the time to help you get through this? Perhaps something on the computer (once it's back)? I agree with allgirls in that you should ask for some help as that will help your mood a lot and I'm sure that you would be more than happy to help someone else if they were in your situation so don't be afraid to ask for help just because it's you--you deserve the same love and attention that you would offer to others if they were in your situation and they probably have no idea that you could use some help so you have to let them know so that they can help -- and heck, they would feel great for helping too!

eldadeetlit--thank you for sharing the exercise about writing all of your postive points--both past and present--I really need to do that -- I too was a whacky, fun, outgoing person (at least to those who knew me) and that has really changed and I'm much more serious and BORING now--that's not much fun at all!!

I look forward to eating food too still--usually once the kids are in bed and I can eat in peace... I really need to find something better to do that I can look forward to instead--that will be an instant gratification thing.... I'll have to think more on that...

Have a great day ladies--I'll check in later!

Holly

[GouGou]

Hi. I usually don't like to talk about "pathology" because every human being that is born struggles with something to some degree or other. That said, I am convinced that eating disorders, body image issues, food addiction, etc... all these things are symptoms that then turn around and become their own pathologies. I also believe that all of these things have an "intrapsychic" dimension as well as a "relational" dimension.

By the way... knowing this, and knowing how to talk about this doesn't help me one bit with my symptoms. Rather, here are the kinds of thoughts that visit me all the time:

I have a cousin in CA. She is tall, and thin, and has lots of really nice clothes and shoes. She's had a boob job and a nose job. She is on her third marriage. My rational side knows better, but my "void" gets involved, so I start thinking that she has a happier life than I do because she can wake up every morning and put on her sexy low-riding jeans. She's somehow living better because she can go to Nordstrom's and pick out anything she wants off the rack and carry it off without a hitch.

Here I am with a husband who is really smart and loving, and whom I love profoundly. I have two happy, healthy kids, and so far, no major financial problems. I have a doctoral degree, work that I love, colleagues that respect me, patients that appreciate me. And somehow, things get so distorted sometimes that I think my CA cousin is happier than me simply because she is thin.

And then, I think perhaps the real reason she's happier than me is because the big, existential questions in life never occur to her. She avoids them by going shopping, changing men...

More later. Gotta run for now.

[eldadeedlit]

today wasn't so bad.... i ate cake at coffee hour after church but only one piece, so although that wasn't the best choice, it wasn't a binge either. ate some m&ms... but generally did well!

Well, don't have much to say tonight. Have to get some books sent out. : and the house is a disaster! yikes!