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Healing the Gut Tribe--January 2007 - Page 6

post #101 of 390
Caedmyn,

Re: whether a small amount of allergen can be tolerated

I was also very skeptical about the Rotation Diet for this reason, but I now cannot argue with success. DS was on a very very limited diet for a while with only one small serving of allergen/day on a 7 day rotation. Meaning if he ate oatmeal on Monday he couldn't have it until (at least) a week later. He ate a lot of safe foods for him like bananas, pears, avocado, beef, chicken, dairy ... things that he didn't react to with allergy testing, and foods that didn't aggravate his gut lining (ie no raw fruit ex. banana). It was very hard and probably the most restrictive diet ever invented! But gradually things got better and I was able to pinpoint his serious reactions to nuts and eggs on those days he ate them.

I'm about to try apples again, even though he passed the second dilution round of skin testing with them, the sugar sorbitol was still hard for him to digest. We'll see how he does now.
post #102 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysmom1729 View Post
Is it normal to feel worse once starting SCD? I'm on day 4 and I'm doing it in hopes to cure my ulcerative colitis. I've lost even more weight too and I just can't afford to lose anymore! I've been eating bananas, apple sauce and diluted grape juice for carbs. I'm trying to stick with the phase 1 foods until the diarrhea stops. I have such a headache and just feel so weak and dizzy, is this normal? Am I not eating enough maybe? I'm nursing my 9 month old son and he's pretty much still 99% BF. Any advice?
Yes it could be die off, drink a LOT of water and take a lot of vitamin C but I wouldn't do to bowel tolerance in your condition, that can be painful in itself even using the ph buffered sodium ascorbate. I really believe in the natural form of C like Amla powder. I take this regularly and when I do bowel tolerance of sodium ascorbate in times of illness, my tissues seem to be so saturated with C that I always max out very quickly at 6 grams of the chemical form.
post #103 of 390
Oh and the other thing with DS is that we finally was able to increase his AFP Peptizyde high protease enzyme. For food allergies, it's usually the proteins that are causing the immune system reaction, so high proteases are very helpful in breaking down the proteins into amino acids and therefore slipping by this chain of events. Also Peptizyde is a special one with DPP-IV or whatever that special gluten breaking down enzyme is. I noticed a significant difference with adding this into his regime (slowly, slowly as it did cause hyperactivity at first with him, as with me!) along with introducing his grains. I also think that giving the Peptizyde WITH introducing grains into the diet helped the hyperactivity as apparently insulin aids amino acid function in the body.
post #104 of 390
Thread Starter 
: JaneS! I was just thinking about you today. Is your DS doing any better (are you seeing any signs of healing)?
post #105 of 390
Oooh, I don't want to hear anything bad about elimination diets, as I am attempting a version of one now.

Refresh my memory, is gas a sign of die-off/detox? I have had some since my steamed veggie lunch. (Day 1 of the detox diet)
post #106 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysmom1729 View Post
Is it normal to feel worse once starting SCD? I'm on day 4 and I'm doing it in hopes to cure my ulcerative colitis. I've lost even more weight too and I just can't afford to lose anymore! I've been eating bananas, apple sauce and diluted grape juice for carbs. I'm trying to stick with the phase 1 foods until the diarrhea stops. I have such a headache and just feel so weak and dizzy, is this normal? Am I not eating enough maybe? I'm nursing my 9 month old son and he's pretty much still 99% BF. Any advice?
That was my experience too. I was miserable for a week. Dizzy, nauseated, irritable and I was STARVING all the time. I ate constantly. I am pretty sure it was my body going through withdrawal. I had so many food allergies that hadn't been identified before then.

I know that it is very common to lose weight. The wasy it has been explained is that your body is getting rid of unhealthy tissue. As long as you are eating enough it is thought to be fine.

Welcome aboard!
post #107 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
It was in a newspaper article in the last 10 days or so.

It kind of contradicts the theory that small amounts of allergen proteins will continue to sensitize even if no visible reaction occurs, doesn't it? Did the technique seem to be effective from what you've read?
Unfortunately all these techniques have followings and so many people have success for very different reasons. There really isn't a way as far as I can tell to know for sure what will work for you.

It is different than continually eating a suspected allergen though. You abstain orally and are given very specific prescribed amounts that increase over a specified period of time in accordance with the reactions. In theory it should work. I haven't tried it though. I'm talking to my homeopath on Tuesday and I'm going to pursue that avenue first.
post #108 of 390
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
It is different than continually eating a suspected allergen though. You abstain orally and are given very specific prescribed amounts that increase over a specified period of time in accordance with the reactions.
I understand that. What I don't understand is how things like rotation diets, or people who are dairy allergic but can tolerate butter fine, fit into the whole scheme of things. Does doing things like rotation diets continue to sensitize someone, or is there actually a tolerance level that has to be exceeded (ie if there's no apparent reaction is there actually a problem)? Has anyone seen any studies on whether continued ingestion of small amounts of an allergen w/o visible reaction causes sensitization? Bluets, help!
post #109 of 390
Can I jump in here with a few questions?

I've been allergic to dairy for quite a while but have always tolerated it fairly well in small amounts up until recently when my face starts itching almost immediately. I know I obviously need to cut out all dairy from my diet but aside from that what other things can I do?? Would the first thing to do be to start healing the gut or are there things more specific to dairy allergies that I could start doing?

Hopefully that makes sense!
post #110 of 390
Hi Jane!

Where do you get the alma?

Talk to me more about the rotation diet. I'm frustrated about dd and stuck. I don't know what to do next. As far as I can tell she isn't reacting to any foods she still eats except if she gets a lot of night shades and I try to keep those to a minimum (much easier in winter than summer). Her only reaction to night shades seems to be a rash on her bottom.

But she still wakes every 1-3 hours at night and that isn't really seeming to improve. At the worst she is latched on all night long w/o letting go. On good nights she unlatches for an hour or two at a time a few times a night. I actually get more sleep on a bad night (but wake up more sore).

Anyhow, I'm considering trying to eliminate eggs but I don't know how to do that w/o adding something back in.

Also, I'm making water kefir and drinking it myself and trying to get it into dd. She will drink it some days but not others. After reading bacteria for breakfast I'm convinced that the issue is her gut flora is messed up but I'm clueless as to how to fix it. Thoughts? What are you doing with your ds to fix his gut flora?

I've got an appointment with her ped in two weeks and I want to ask for something, testing, a referal to a specalist of some kind, something that may give some answers as to what to do next but I don't know what to ask him for.
post #111 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
: JaneS! I was just thinking about you today. Is your DS doing any better (are you seeing any signs of healing)?
Yes, healing is well underway!

DS is doing fantastic! Poops are not as regular as I would like but I'm not complaining thus far, hoping it will work itself out in next few months. I've started kefir again which he first loved, and then wouldn't touch and now seems to love again. Dysbiosis "smell" is gone, no more mushy poops at least unless he eats nuts or eggs which are out now. Tolerating new foods like grains and fruits and raw milk well. Sleeping longer and better, therefore a better attitude! His teeth are whiter and calculus hasn't come back after his last dental cleaning so this tells me he is absorbing his calcium now and his ph is less acidic.

I'm seriously so happy, I tear up every time I think of it. It was a wonderful Xmas present.
post #112 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pattyla View Post
Hi Jane!

Where do you get the alma?

Talk to me more about the rotation diet. I'm frustrated about dd and stuck. I don't know what to do next. As far as I can tell she isn't reacting to any foods she still eats except if she gets a lot of night shades and I try to keep those to a minimum (much easier in winter than summer). Her only reaction to night shades seems to be a rash on her bottom.

But she still wakes every 1-3 hours at night and that isn't really seeming to improve. At the worst she is latched on all night long w/o letting go. On good nights she unlatches for an hour or two at a time a few times a night. I actually get more sleep on a bad night (but wake up more sore).

Anyhow, I'm considering trying to eliminate eggs but I don't know how to do that w/o adding something back in.

Also, I'm making water kefir and drinking it myself and trying to get it into dd. She will drink it some days but not others. After reading bacteria for breakfast I'm convinced that the issue is her gut flora is messed up but I'm clueless as to how to fix it. Thoughts? What are you doing with your ds to fix his gut flora?

I've got an appointment with her ped in two weeks and I want to ask for something, testing, a referal to a specalist of some kind, something that may give some answers as to what to do next but I don't know what to ask him for.
Himalaya Amla at www.iherb.com

What about blood testing for allergies from Immunolabs, I think that is what Firefaery recommended? The adult panel that tests more foods than pediatric one.

For us it was not only gut flora but also allergens. I think that is probably more likely to be the case with babes than adults b/c their immune systems are trying to work out ok vs. invader while their guts are leaking.

The theory behind the Rotation Diet is that you are not eating something every day so your system doesn't continue to be assaulted with allergens every day. Each allergen causes a specific response, so somehow it allows the system to rest. DS was allergic to so many foods there was no way we could have eliminated them all and still have a reasonable diet ... and then you supposedly just get allergic to those small number of foods b/c you are eating them everyday.

I can type up the sample 4 day diet our dietician gave us if you are interested. When I started though I did my own thing with 7 days of rotation just to be sure.

DS is just on Reuteri capsules for now and the dairy kefir that I can coax into him. The nutritionist recommended Tyler's Permeability Factors for the glutamine et al but I just tried to be better about bone broths and I didn't want to add too many new things at once. We did add extra zinc supps again.

The funny thing is that when we put eggs and nuts on a rotation, DS seemed to have reactions more strongly than when he was eating them everyday. I have no earthly idea why this is.

I was also stuck in the "how can I eliminate anything when we are already down to so little" mindset too and I just decided to trust our Ped/Dietician, go for it, slowly, with past reactions and rotation in mind. It wasn't easy for a good several months let me tell you (why I was MIA).
post #113 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
Refresh my memory, is gas a sign of die-off/detox? I have had some since my steamed veggie lunch. (Day 1 of the detox diet)
Quoting myself because I am a little concerned. Gas is really foul smelling, which I really haven't had in ages, and I am more bloated than usual. All good signs of die off?? Or is that just wishful thinking and I am eating stuff that isn't good for me? On a good note, the puffiness of my eyes is subsiding a bit.
post #114 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Yes, healing is well underway!

DS is doing fantastic! Poops are not as regular as I would like but I'm not complaining thus far, hoping it will work itself out in next few months. I've started kefir again which he first loved, and then wouldn't touch and now seems to love again. Dysbiosis "smell" is gone, no more mushy poops at least unless he eats nuts or eggs which are out now. Tolerating new foods like grains and fruits and raw milk well. Sleeping longer and better, therefore a better attitude! His teeth are whiter and calculus hasn't come back after his last dental cleaning so this tells me he is absorbing his calcium now and his ph is less acidic.

I'm seriously so happy, I tear up every time I think of it. It was a wonderful Xmas present.
HI Jane, great to hear you are both doing a lot better!

I would love to see a sample 4 day menu, or a 7 day menu, of the rotation diet. Do you follow a specific diet plan (from a book, from your DR, online)?
We are currently doing the Failsafe elimination diet(low salicylates, amines, no scented products of any kind, and for now no supplements.) After the intro I bet a rotation of foods could be worked out.
post #115 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
Quoting myself because I am a little concerned. Gas is really foul smelling, which I really haven't had in ages, and I am more bloated than usual. All good signs of die off?? Or is that just wishful thinking and I am eating stuff that isn't good for me? On a good note, the puffiness of my eyes is subsiding a bit.
I would venture to say that any reduction in the swelling is a good thing.
post #116 of 390
Yummy veggies I never ate much of before:
rutabaga, delicious roasted in oven with oil of choice

choko or chayote, a squash with a delicate slightly sweet flavor
post #117 of 390
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
Quoting myself because I am a little concerned. Gas is really foul smelling, which I really haven't had in ages, and I am more bloated than usual. All good signs of die off?? Or is that just wishful thinking and I am eating stuff that isn't good for me? On a good note, the puffiness of my eyes is subsiding a bit.
It sounds like die-off to me, unless the veggies you ate were high in sulfur. Gas is definitely one of my die-off symptoms, and sometimes bloating is, too. Hard-to-digest foods also cause gas and bloating for me, but steamed veggies should be pretty easy to digest.
post #118 of 390
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Yes, healing is well underway!

DS is doing fantastic! Poops are not as regular as I would like but I'm not complaining thus far, hoping it will work itself out in next few months. I've started kefir again which he first loved, and then wouldn't touch and now seems to love again. Dysbiosis "smell" is gone, no more mushy poops at least unless he eats nuts or eggs which are out now. Tolerating new foods like grains and fruits and raw milk well. Sleeping longer and better, therefore a better attitude! His teeth are whiter and calculus hasn't come back after his last dental cleaning so this tells me he is absorbing his calcium now and his ph is less acidic.

I'm seriously so happy, I tear up every time I think of it. It was a wonderful Xmas present.
Yay, I'm so happy for you both
post #119 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Himalaya Amla at www.iherb.com

What about blood testing for allergies from Immunolabs, I think that is what Firefaery recommended? The adult panel that tests more foods than pediatric one.

For us it was not only gut flora but also allergens. I think that is probably more likely to be the case with babes than adults b/c their immune systems are trying to work out ok vs. invader while their guts are leaking.

The theory behind the Rotation Diet is that you are not eating something every day so your system doesn't continue to be assaulted with allergens every day. Each allergen causes a specific response, so somehow it allows the system to rest. DS was allergic to so many foods there was no way we could have eliminated them all and still have a reasonable diet ... and then you supposedly just get allergic to those small number of foods b/c you are eating them everyday.

I can type up the sample 4 day diet our dietician gave us if you are interested. When I started though I did my own thing with 7 days of rotation just to be sure.

DS is just on Reuteri capsules for now and the dairy kefir that I can coax into him. The nutritionist recommended Tyler's Permeability Factors for the glutamine et al but I just tried to be better about bone broths and I didn't want to add too many new things at once. We did add extra zinc supps again.

The funny thing is that when we put eggs and nuts on a rotation, DS seemed to have reactions more strongly than when he was eating them everyday. I have no earthly idea why this is.

I was also stuck in the "how can I eliminate anything when we are already down to so little" mindset too and I just decided to trust our Ped/Dietician, go for it, slowly, with past reactions and rotation in mind. It wasn't easy for a good several months let me tell you (why I was MIA).

Jane- I would love to see your sample diet. I'm just not sure how much help I'll get from our Dr. I really like him but he is so far outside of mainstream at times that it can be difficult to get him to do much but "wait and see".

So did you just jump into the rotation diet or try to do some time w/o any allergens to clear the system first?
post #120 of 390
Caedmyn, I honestly don't know. Hopefully Bluets can help.

Jane, I'm so psyched! That's an elimination diet done right. I have never heard of anyone on such a long rotation that stuck to it long enough to see results. You are awesome!
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