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Healing the Gut Tribe--January 2007 - Page 7

post #121 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
It sounds like die-off to me, unless the veggies you ate were high in sulfur. Gas is definitely one of my die-off symptoms, and sometimes bloating is, too. Hard-to-digest foods also cause gas and bloating for me, but steamed veggies should be pretty easy to digest.
I had garlic, onion, kale, sweet potato, broccoli, brussel sprouts and swiss chard, among other things. All high in sulfur. Should sulfer always cause gas?
post #122 of 390
Hi. I followed these threads pretty regularly for a while, but stopped when DS was diagnosed with aspergers because I really need to focus on that right now. I had a quick question that I hope someone will help me with. Should I be taking bifidus, as well, as my 10mo because I'm nursing? I was taking a regular adult probiotic, but stopped after my son's said that nursing mothers could take it.
post #123 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonshine View Post
I had garlic, onion, kale, sweet potato, broccoli, brussel sprouts and swiss chard, among other things. All high in sulfur. Should sulfer always cause gas?
sulfur doesn't always cause gas... only in those people who cannot metabolize it well. my ND seems to think that there is a genetic underpinning for this ability (or lack of ability) though i'm inclined to think that it is linked more to gut health and quantity of sulfurous food eaten.
post #124 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
I understand that. What I don't understand is how things like rotation diets, or people who are dairy allergic but can tolerate butter fine, fit into the whole scheme of things. Does doing things like rotation diets continue to sensitize someone, or is there actually a tolerance level that has to be exceeded (ie if there's no apparent reaction is there actually a problem)? Has anyone seen any studies on whether continued ingestion of small amounts of an allergen w/o visible reaction causes sensitization? Bluets, help!
http://www.food-allergy.org/page2.html

"When a patient has multiple food allergies, the offending foods must be eliminated and all other foods should be eaten at intervals of four to five days or longer. This is know as a “rotation” or “rotary diversified” diet. Rotation diets are necessary for patients with multiple allergies because if you have overt allergies to many foods, it is likely that you have slight, subclinical allergies to many other foods that you consider safe. Eating them on a rotated basis reduces your exposure to them and hopefully will help preserve your tolerance for them."

"Doctors prescribe rotation diets of varying degrees of strictness depending on the severity of your allergies. On the most strict diets each food is eaten only once on its rotation day and the length of the rotation cycle may be much longer than four to five days. One very allergic person I talked to had been put on a one food per meal, three meals per day, twelve day cycle diet by a prominent allergy clinic. Some doctors consider rotation diets with very long cycles to be counterproductive. For most patients, a four to five day interval between eating foods gives the best masking of symptoms. "

That page has a few references that may be useful as well, so be sure to visit it.

Going out on a limb here... Rotation diets probably work because of the combination of exposure and rest. And yes, it probably works in much the same way as allergy shots -- probably better. Remember allergy shots stick the offending proteins straight into your bloodstream whereas rotation diets stick the offending proteins into your gut - the more likely place where those proteins will be handled first (even in the case of proteins from allergy shots - why don't they let you slurp them down instead of injecting you with the proteins and other crap?).

The rest period probably varies from substance to substance and from person to person because of the individuality of allergies. One would need a varying amount of time to recover from the histamine response that the offending proteins invoke.

I'm not sure how dairy allergies work. My own response is pretty rapid and just plain unpleasant (postnasal drip, stuffy head, headache - all lasting from 1 hour postchallenge to 24 hours postchallenge), I have little desire to push the boundaries. Though, admittedly, I do have a tendency to overdo the quantity on those few times I've done a challenge.

I'm not sure if full gut healing will eliminate this allergy for me - I've had it since I was 4 months old so it may be just completely ingrained in my system.

(did I mention that I've learned that I can handle small amounts of goat cheese?! and since i only eat small amounts, because i'm not so enamoured with its flavor, there's no way i'll overdo the challenge!)
post #125 of 390
last month, i mentioned that ds was having issues with constipation (on a fairly regular routine of weekend-only constipation, fine during the week). in talking with the ND, i mentioned his tooth-grinding and the ND immediately thought about a remedy, linking constipation to parasites. the remedy is also for tooth-grinding and nose-picking (both of which ds was doing). oh yeah, the remedy is called homeopathic Cina.

well, in reading more, it seems that Cina is also good for sleeplessness in children.

so, i finally managed to get my hands on some Cina (i had to order it coz it isn't in the usual Boiron collection in either HFS here). we started it Thursday night. ds pooped 3x on Friday and 2x yesterday! of course, he's also been eating lots of apple.
post #126 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
the ND immediately thought about a remedy, linking constipation to parasites. the remedy is also for tooth-grinding and nose-picking (both of which ds was doing). oh yeah, the remedy is called homeopathic Cina.

well, in reading more, it seems that Cina is also good for sleeplessness in children.
so, thinking of how homeopathic substances work, any idea if the remedy prompts the body to address the parasites directly (presuming they are the problem causing the grinding/constipation/nose-picking), or if it just prompts the body to address the symptoms/behaviors? not sure what cina is, and as usual i can't find my book; it always gets misplaced in the middle of the night when someone gets sick... is it herb, animal, or mineral?

what dose/potency/frequency? i tried it on your suggestion last month; one dose of 30C. i didn't see much difference, but she hasn't been waking/grinding much lately anyway, and had regular (1-2/day) bm. still goes for her nose often.
post #127 of 390
Thread Starter 
Rotation diet question for anyone who knows: if I do a rotation diet, would I still be able to drink kombucha and water kefirs every day? I could rotate "flavors" of water kefir if necessary.
post #128 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by formerluddite View Post
so, thinking of how homeopathic substances work, any idea if the remedy prompts the body to address the parasites directly (presuming they are the problem causing the grinding/constipation/nose-picking), or if it just prompts the body to address the symptoms/behaviors? not sure what cina is, and as usual i can't find my book; it always gets misplaced in the middle of the night when someone gets sick... is it herb, animal, or mineral?

what dose/potency/frequency? i tried it on your suggestion last month; one dose of 30C. i didn't see much difference, but she hasn't been waking/grinding much lately anyway, and had regular (1-2/day) bm. still goes for her nose often.
the ND told me to get 6C but of course didn't give much more information than that. so i've been following the directions on the bottle - 5 tablets at a time. i only give it 2x per day.

Cina = Worm-seed. How appropriate, eh? http://www.abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Cina and i have no idea how it works - whether it just works on symptoms or on the parasites (if they're even there).

3 bowel movements today - and they're mushier than usual and sticky with undigested food -- it's been a while since we were explicit about poop, no?

so, i'm not sure if it is the remedy working or if it is loose stool from the lactose (but then ds is still breastfed so i would be skeptical that he would react in such a way to lactose).

i'm also not sure how long i should continue the remedy. there are a whole pile of indications for Cina that apply to ds. do i wait until they all go away?
post #129 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by caedmyn View Post
Rotation diet question for anyone who knows: if I do a rotation diet, would I still be able to drink kombucha and water kefirs every day? I could rotate "flavors" of water kefir if necessary.
maybe alternate - one day kefir, one day kombucha ?
post #130 of 390
Bluets-in this instance I am inclined to go with the injections. Because the idea is to increase things incrimentally in the bloodstream and provoke a reaction until the body is able to right itself I think it would be more effective. I am SO not generally inclined to go with the more mainstream stuff, but this actually makes sense to me. I am sure that there's more out there that I don't know about though.
post #131 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
the ND told me to get 6C but of course didn't give much more information than that. so i've been following the directions on the bottle - 5 tablets at a time. i only give it 2x per day.
...
i'm also not sure how long i should continue the remedy. there are a whole pile of indications for Cina that apply to ds. do i wait until they all go away?
i've learned enough about homeopathy to know there is considerable difference of opinion on what and how to Rx. for instance, my homeopath always Rx's high potency: 30C (usually 2 pellets) or 200C (usually 10 pellets--they're really tiny). you should probably check with your ND. Rx for chronic stuff is much more complicated than for acute stuff. i wouldn't venture an opinion, i just barely muddle through using it for colds/cough/fever, etc., when i can't get hold of my homeopath. (who is a treasure, but works 4 days/week. how come my kids always get sick on friday night??????). plus i don't leave home without arnica. :

and thanks for the homeopathy link. i really haven't looked online for much info yet, handy to know a site.
post #132 of 390
okie, so maybe ds's plentiful bowel movements over the past day or so were just a bug... dh is having unusual diarrhea now too, along with signs of magnesium deficiency (which precedes an intestinal infection, btw).

back to waiting for the body to work. forgot to give the Cina this morning but we gave it last night. we'll just see what daycare logs in the chart for today.
post #133 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Himalaya Amla at www.iherb.com

What about blood testing for allergies from Immunolabs, I think that is what Firefaery recommended? The adult panel that tests more foods than pediatric one.

For us it was not only gut flora but also allergens. I think that is probably more likely to be the case with babes than adults b/c their immune systems are trying to work out ok vs. invader while their guts are leaking.

The theory behind the Rotation Diet is that you are not eating something every day so your system doesn't continue to be assaulted with allergens every day. Each allergen causes a specific response, so somehow it allows the system to rest. DS was allergic to so many foods there was no way we could have eliminated them all and still have a reasonable diet ... and then you supposedly just get allergic to those small number of foods b/c you are eating them everyday.

I can type up the sample 4 day diet our dietician gave us if you are interested. When I started though I did my own thing with 7 days of rotation just to be sure.

DS is just on Reuteri capsules for now and the dairy kefir that I can coax into him. The nutritionist recommended Tyler's Permeability Factors for the glutamine et al but I just tried to be better about bone broths and I didn't want to add too many new things at once. We did add extra zinc supps again.

The funny thing is that when we put eggs and nuts on a rotation, DS seemed to have reactions more strongly than when he was eating them everyday. I have no earthly idea why this is.

I was also stuck in the "how can I eliminate anything when we are already down to so little" mindset too and I just decided to trust our Ped/Dietician, go for it, slowly, with past reactions and rotation in mind. It wasn't easy for a good several months let me tell you (why I was MIA).
I'd be interested in seeing this, too. I tried to do a rotation diet early on after talking with someone from this forum, but I just couldn't find enough foods to eat to truly rotate. But now that I'm pegging a few more things down and we should get our allergy testing results soon, I'm thinking about addressing with a rotation diet.
post #134 of 390
i think the help of a rotation diet is the fact that if the gut is still leaking the body is getting allergic to anything (no matter how "hypoallergenic" it's considered) that it gets bombarded with, so a very limited diet gets increasingly limited until there's nothing left to eat.

with dd1, when she first went haywire (right after her 4mos vax : ) i ended up going on the drastic elimination diet of just 13 foods outlined in sears' fussy baby book (lamb, turkey, rice, millet, sweet potato/yam, zucchini, pear, and 6 things i can't recall). the next day she became a calm, happy baby who could be held by others, took naps, woke 3-4 times just to feed nurse, not comfort leech all night... then after a few weeks we were back to square one of all night nursing, no naps unless attached, only mama can (and must) hold me.

so a rotation diet helps keep the dose of any individual current allergen low, and might prevent the body from deciding that new things it doesn't yet react to are worth becoming allergic to, which is where "exotics" like buckwheat, quinoa, teff, amaranth, rabbit, duck, buffalo (really bison?) and such come in. i think that's how sears' diet is derived; those foods are less commonly eaten in the US. i bet there are nepali's who are allergic to yak milk, but we probably aren't (until we start drinking a quart a day cause there's nothing else left to eat ).
post #135 of 390
Hey mamas! I am brand new to this section of the mothering boards. Anyway, I am 100% sure I have some digestive and/or candida issues and I really think I need to get them under control. However, there are so many diets out there that I don't know which one would be the best for me, or indeed what I actually have wrong with me. Here are my issues:

lots of gas, from both ends
bad breath
get diarrhea or runny stools very easily
sensitive stomach
occasional bloating (usually after I eat a lot of carbs, I think. or maybe just grains? I don't know)
recurring vaginal itch (it's so bad that I keep a tube of topical cream from an OTC yeast infection med kit and use it if it gets too bad :/)
fatigue/lethergy/laziness/sleeping too much
a weird little itchy patch on one of my shins where the skin feels different. doesn't look like eczema to me, comparing to pics I found on google

I try to eat low-carb most of the time due to a different health reason (mitral valve prolapse), but I am a chronic cheater. : All my symptoms get worse when I cheat, and I also start breaking out in zits.

Anyway, do you ladies have any advice on which diet would be a good one to start off with, or point me to a place to start reading? I am at least somewhat familiar with Bee's anticandida diet, SCD, failsafe, and paleo. I briefly tried Bee's anticandida diet, but the supplements made me feel horrible. I still have all of them though if you think any of those would be helpful (magnesium, calcium, powdered C, C with flavanoids, flushing niacin, B complex, E, chlorophyll, CLO, and I also have some butter oil).

Sorry if this is long and incoherent, I am just getting to my wit's end with all this. My husband can't believe how sensitive to food I am.
post #136 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by firefaery View Post
That technique (can't remember the name of it now) was used very frequently in the late 70's early 80's. Interesting that it is getting some press now. Caedmyn, do you know where you read this? I think Doris Rapp writes about it as well...
I haven't read the rest of the replies, but Duke university is doing a study like this. Here's a link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061225/...food_allergies
post #137 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
As this was our experience: I healed and DS did not ... it seems like it was allergens for him. With my leaky gut and poor intestinal flora the cause. His poor flora gave him leaky gut when his immune system was maturing and therefore it recognized and developed food allergies. So with kids, allergens must be involved as well.

DS is doing awesome on Rotation Diet without eggs, coconut or nuts. Previous things which sent his poops to custard: raw fruit for ex. he is eating with no problem. This goes to show you that an Elimination Diet might not always be accurate: as he is not allergic to these fruits which showed horrible reactions, but his intestines were so inflamed from the allergens that he simply couldn't digest them. He even ate some sugar (Rapadura) over holidays and no reactions (he had started NT grains but I still kept him to honey for sweetener).

Also is drinking straight non-yogurtized milk! (raw, bien sur) which is the most thrilling thing for me. Only you guys would understand that.

I'm thinking of posting on Pecanbread why the SCD for over a year didn't work for him but not sure it will be welcome.
I haven't read all, but I think this is the case with dd. She has a few true allergies, but she is very intolerant of a lot of fruits and vegetables (high salicylate ones usually) and I think she would be more tolerant if it weren't for her gut problems. I do notice that she is getting better, less sensitive, so I hope our gut-healing is working.

Good to see you again, Jane!
post #138 of 390
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kallyn View Post
Hey mamas! I am brand new to this section of the mothering boards. Anyway, I am 100% sure I have some digestive and/or candida issues and I really think I need to get them under control. However, there are so many diets out there that I don't know which one would be the best for me, or indeed what I actually have wrong with me. Here are my issues:

lots of gas, from both ends
bad breath
get diarrhea or runny stools very easily
sensitive stomach
occasional bloating (usually after I eat a lot of carbs, I think. or maybe just grains? I don't know)
recurring vaginal itch (it's so bad that I keep a tube of topical cream from an OTC yeast infection med kit and use it if it gets too bad :/)
fatigue/lethergy/laziness/sleeping too much
a weird little itchy patch on one of my shins where the skin feels different. doesn't look like eczema to me, comparing to pics I found on google

I try to eat low-carb most of the time due to a different health reason (mitral valve prolapse), but I am a chronic cheater. : All my symptoms get worse when I cheat, and I also start breaking out in zits.

Anyway, do you ladies have any advice on which diet would be a good one to start off with, or point me to a place to start reading? I am at least somewhat familiar with Bee's anticandida diet, SCD, failsafe, and paleo. I briefly tried Bee's anticandida diet, but the supplements made me feel horrible. I still have all of them though if you think any of those would be helpful (magnesium, calcium, powdered C, C with flavanoids, flushing niacin, B complex, E, chlorophyll, CLO, and I also have some butter oil).

Sorry if this is long and incoherent, I am just getting to my wit's end with all this. My husband can't believe how sensitive to food I am.
Your symptoms sounds like yeast symptoms to me, so a candida diet would probably be best. You could experiment with the supplements you have and see which ones you think you need--vitamin C and CLO would be good to take in any case, and probably the butter oil and B complex, too. Most people are magnesium deficient and I think you will get diarrhea if you take too much magnesium (I do, anyway).
post #139 of 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneS View Post
Yes, healing is well underway!

DS is doing fantastic! Poops are not as regular as I would like but I'm not complaining thus far, hoping it will work itself out in next few months. I've started kefir again which he first loved, and then wouldn't touch and now seems to love again. Dysbiosis "smell" is gone, no more mushy poops at least unless he eats nuts or eggs which are out now. Tolerating new foods like grains and fruits and raw milk well. Sleeping longer and better, therefore a better attitude! His teeth are whiter and calculus hasn't come back after his last dental cleaning so this tells me he is absorbing his calcium now and his ph is less acidic.

I'm seriously so happy, I tear up every time I think of it. It was a wonderful Xmas present.

I'm so happy to hear of his progress! That is beyond wonderful!

Can I ask, of the foods he didn't tolerate, did you ever find out if any of them were IgE related? I'm curious to know if the rotation diet and nutrition/supplement regimen "cured" food intolerances AND food allergies--if there was any distinction between them as far as healing was concerned.

My dd is allergic to dairy and corn (IgE) and since we've eliminated them, her eczema and runny nose have cleared. But, she is intolerant to a long list of fruits (she can only tolerate bananas and pears). Otherwise, she doesn't digest them and she gets red bumps on her face, eczema and red bumps on her torso. I believe this is related to her gut, which we're working on healing, but it's difficult to find supplements that don't have corn or dairy in them.
post #140 of 390
I'm curious to know what we're all talking about when we say "rotation diet." The one that bluets posted here is what I'm familiar with: eliminate the problem foods and rotate the ones that aren't problems so as to avoid tolerable foods becoming intolerable ones. Are others here eating their known allergens, but on a rotating basis? And if so, are they food intolerances or are they histamine mediated food allergies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluets View Post
http://www.food-allergy.org/page2.html

"When a patient has multiple food allergies, the offending foods must be eliminated and all other foods should be eaten at intervals of four to five days or longer. This is know as a “rotation” or “rotary diversified” diet. Rotation diets are necessary for patients with multiple allergies because if you have overt allergies to many foods, it is likely that you have slight, subclinical allergies to many other foods that you consider safe. Eating them on a rotated basis reduces your exposure to them and hopefully will help preserve your tolerance for them."

"Doctors prescribe rotation diets of varying degrees of strictness depending on the severity of your allergies. On the most strict diets each food is eaten only once on its rotation day and the length of the rotation cycle may be much longer than four to five days. One very allergic person I talked to had been put on a one food per meal, three meals per day, twelve day cycle diet by a prominent allergy clinic. Some doctors consider rotation diets with very long cycles to be counterproductive. For most patients, a four to five day interval between eating foods gives the best masking of symptoms. "
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