Healing the Gut Tribe--January 2007 - Page 4

[Kundalini-Mama]

Hey mamas,

I'm not here much, and not really on the diet anymore come to think of it I'm not eating any sugar or anything, but I've added potatoes (in limited quantities), some grains (even corn chips--no problem) and ezekial bread. I'm still not eating any crap, soy oil or anything like that. The biggie though, is that our local cafe makes sourdough bread (spelt starter) that is yeast free. I have been unable to consume gluten in any capacity without raging and immediate bloating and run to the toilet diarrhea. I tolerate the bread--no exception. I did have a tincture last week (grain alchohol) and became hugely bloated, so I still cannot consume straight gluten, but properly prepared NT gluten is no problem

I was on SCD for 7 months. Very strict w/TONS and TONS of probiotics. I'd eat almost a quart of 24hr raw goat yogurt daily and tons and tons of kombucha. I know this helped tons!

Anyway, just wanted to check in with you all and show you this thread I posted. Unfortunately no one is interested in it, but I know you all would be

Amy

[caedmyn]

I need some opinions on this...I strongly suspect that DD is allergic/intolerant to coconut. I think she reacts (eczema flare-up) when she eats coconut oil and when I eat coconut products, although not when I eat coconut oil unless that is the reason her eczema won't go away. I don't think it is die-off because this has been going on for too long. I really, really do not want to eliminate coconut oil from my diet--1/3 of my calories come from it and I can't use olive oil in nearly as many ways as I use CO. Here's my dilemma: if she doesn't noticeably react when I eat CO, even though she reacts to other CO products and when she eats CO, is she less likely to outgrow a coconut sensitivity because she is continually being exposed to CO? Or could it be more of a dosage thing, where she has to be exposed to a certain amount of it before it affects her (assuming no visible reaction=no immune reaction, I guess)? Does that make sense?

This might do a better job of explaining than I can, from http://allergies.about.com/gi/dynami...dditives.info/

Dose

Allergic reactions can be to the tiniest amount of an allergen.

Intolerance reactions to food chemicals are dose-related. Some people are more sensitive than others. In theory, everyone will react to food additives if they consume enough and one study on MSG confirmed this, although a few of the subjects reacted to very high doses which were unlikely to be consumed in one sitting.

[Panserbjorne]

Subbing...late as usual!

Caedmyn, I have to say I strongly disagree with that excerpt. What they are saying, in essence, is that they don't SEE a reaction, which as we all know is far different from not having a reaction. My dd has no visible reaction from a tiny bit of soy, but I wouldn't take the chance and give her a tiny amount. I wouldn't necessarily see neurological disfunction right away, KWIM? Bottom line, if it can't be given in large amounts, it can't be given in small amounts IMO. Damage is damage no matter how small. (wow, that was very Dr. Suess of me!)

However, I spent the last two years feeding my kids known allergens along with a strict (SCD) diet to heal their guts. I know that it isn't the food that is the issue in IgG reactions, but the leaky gut. More exposure can result in more issues (eczema, behavioral issues etc.) but won't effect healing time. I guess what I always believed was as long as you are taking steps to close up that gut exposure wasn't a problem. I took away anything that fed bacteria and would ferment in their guts and made it really simple. I fed my dd the same foods she was reacting to all the way through the SCD, and my ds for that matter and they DID stop reacting. However when we went off the diet the reactions came back. Clearly we didn't spend enough time there. I know not everyone has success with it, but we saw HUGE improvements...physically and emotionally. Their rashes were gone, they began napping, their BM were more normal and more regular, they weren't as hyper and dd started really talking. Now I'm feeding them their known allergens and we are seeing huge regression. I keep falling off the dang diet, but it's clear we need to be there.

Long story short, I'm very confused. It seems that everything I *know* from textbooks, workshops, conferences etc. is really off base. I have had alot of education and am feeling like I don't know much anymore.

Most of the accepted literature says that these reactions stop IF the children stop being exposed.

I hope that made sense!

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by MeMommy

I think the mycotoxins were in reference to my question, on coconut oil made from copra. If you are using virgin CO, I don't think you can make it from copra and call it virgin, but I may be wrong. Just check out how your CO is made.

As for the NAET, you can also use EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) for food sensitivities/allergies. The website is here. I have been using EFT on DD for her food issues since we got her tested. We will be going back soon to get tested again, and I am hopeful that they will have all cleared by now.

I am also treating us for the thrush with EFT, although I will have to wait until next week to really begin in earnest, things get a little hectic here at the end of the week.

We use EFT daily! I have seen amazing differences for me and ds, not so much dd though. Interesting thing is he's totally willing to have me tap for him, she's not.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by Chinese Pistache

It's possible. But the reaction I had seems similar to oral allergy syndrome. I don't know if the salycilate foods cause that same kind of response.

Absolutely they can! In fact they are the likely culprits as far as I know.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I need some opinions on this...I strongly suspect that DD is allergic/intolerant to coconut. I think she reacts (eczema flare-up) when she eats coconut oil and when I eat coconut products, although not when I eat coconut oil unless that is the reason her eczema won't go away. I don't think it is die-off because this has been going on for too long. I really, really do not want to eliminate coconut oil from my diet--1/3 of my calories come from it and I can't use olive oil in nearly as many ways as I use CO. Here's my dilemma: if she doesn't noticeably react when I eat CO, even though she reacts to other CO products and when she eats CO, is she less likely to outgrow a coconut sensitivity because she is continually being exposed to CO? Or could it be more of a dosage thing, where she has to be exposed to a certain amount of it before it affects her (assuming no visible reaction=no immune reaction, I guess)? Does that make sense?

This might do a better job of explaining than I can, from http://allergies.about.com/gi/dynami...dditives.info/

I would be very concerned that she wouldn't outgrow it if she's being constantly exposed through bm. Can you eliminate it to see if her eczema goes away? Can you make up the calories with other oils?

It is so frustrating, isn't it? I really thought coconut milk was going to be our magic bullet, a great way to get the probiotics into dd, and a good replacement for many dairy products. But now, it seems we're both reacting to it

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Subbing...late as usual!

Caedmyn, I have to say I strongly disagree with that excerpt. What they are saying, in essence, is that they don't SEE a reaction, which as we all know is far different from not having a reaction. My dd has no visible reaction from a tiny bit of soy, but I wouldn't take the chance and give her a tiny amount. I wouldn't necessarily see neurological disfunction right away, KWIM? Bottom line, if it can't be given in large amounts, it can't be given in small amounts IMO. Damage is damage no matter how small. (wow, that was very Dr. Suess of me!)

However, I spent the last two years feeding my kids known allergens along with a strict (SCD) diet to heal their guts. I know that it isn't the food that is the issue in IgG reactions, but the leaky gut. More exposure can result in more issues (eczema, behavioral issues etc.) but won't effect healing time. I guess what I always believed was as long as you are taking steps to close up that gut exposure wasn't a problem. I took away anything that fed bacteria and would ferment in their guts and made it really simple. I fed my dd the same foods she was reacting to all the way through the SCD, and my ds for that matter and they DID stop reacting. However when we went off the diet the reactions came back. Clearly we didn't spend enough time there. I know not everyone has success with it, but we saw HUGE improvements...physically and emotionally. Their rashes were gone, they began napping, their BM were more normal and more regular, they weren't as hyper and dd started really talking. Now I'm feeding them their known allergens and we are seeing huge regression. I keep falling off the dang diet, but it's clear we need to be there.

Long story short, I'm very confused. It seems that everything I *know* from textbooks, workshops, conferences etc. is really off base. I have had alot of education and am feeling like I don't know much anymore.

Most of the accepted literature says that these reactions stop IF the children stop being exposed.

I hope that made sense!

It does make sense...my issue with feeding DD things she reacts to is that she ISN'T healing, in fact she's gotten worse. So I wonder if her poor little body is so busy reacting to the allergens that she isn't able to do any healing.

Sometimes I feel that way, too...the more I learn the less I know!

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by firefaery

Subbing...late as usual!

Caedmyn, I have to say I strongly disagree with that excerpt. What they are saying, in essence, is that they don't SEE a reaction, which as we all know is far different from not having a reaction. My dd has no visible reaction from a tiny bit of soy, but I wouldn't take the chance and give her a tiny amount. I wouldn't necessarily see neurological disfunction right away, KWIM? Bottom line, if it can't be given in large amounts, it can't be given in small amounts IMO. Damage is damage no matter how small. (wow, that was very Dr. Suess of me!)

However, I spent the last two years feeding my kids known allergens along with a strict (SCD) diet to heal their guts. I know that it isn't the food that is the issue in IgG reactions, but the leaky gut. More exposure can result in more issues (eczema, behavioral issues etc.) but won't effect healing time. I guess what I always believed was as long as you are taking steps to close up that gut exposure wasn't a problem. I took away anything that fed bacteria and would ferment in their guts and made it really simple. I fed my dd the same foods she was reacting to all the way through the SCD, and my ds for that matter and they DID stop reacting. However when we went off the diet the reactions came back. Clearly we didn't spend enough time there. I know not everyone has success with it, but we saw HUGE improvements...physically and emotionally. Their rashes were gone, they began napping, their BM were more normal and more regular, they weren't as hyper and dd started really talking. Now I'm feeding them their known allergens and we are seeing huge regression. I keep falling off the dang diet, but it's clear we need to be there.

Long story short, I'm very confused. It seems that everything I *know* from textbooks, workshops, conferences etc. is really off base. I have had alot of education and am feeling like I don't know much anymore.

Most of the accepted literature says that these reactions stop IF the children stop being exposed.

I hope that made sense!

FF, were their allergens IgG or IgE? I really think that if they are IgE mediated that it takes more than gut healing to get them to stop reacting. Their whole immune system has to be re-set, which may or may not happen, depending on their age and how long they follow strict avoidance. Of course, this is just one theory, but it's the theory we are following as far as my dd's IgE allergies because I know of first hand instances (and have read many more online) of children outgrowing the allergies.

If you're talking about IgG intolerances, then, I don't know. Can you do SCD AND avoid their allergens? Maybe that would lead to a more permanent gut-healing?

[Panserbjorne]

That would be almost impossible. We could be doing SCD with no dairy, eggs, nuts, tomato, peaches, banana, avacado, coconut, plums, carrots, peanuts, pear, apple, orange, onion etc... I'm just not up for that.

We have IgE and IgG. I am doing far more than diet stuff to reset their systems. Beyond diet and supplements we do EFT, homeopathy, accupuncture, CST etc. I don't believe in chasing allergens, but in healing the body. Everything needs to be addressed for this to happen. I feel like that is what we are doing. We have tried so many things. I still have a few tricks up my sleeve though....we'll see.

[Panserbjorne]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

It does make sense...my issue with feeding DD things she reacts to is that she ISN'T healing, in fact she's gotten worse. So I wonder if her poor little body is so busy reacting to the allergens that she isn't able to do any healing.

Sometimes I feel that way, too...the more I learn the less I know!

Since I know that you have been experiencing that for a long time I would say that may be the case. I'm so sorry. I wish I could offer more. I'm talking to my homeopath about doing specific remedies for known allergens. I'll let you know what I come up with.

[formerluddite]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

I need some opinions on this...I strongly suspect that DD is allergic/intolerant to coconut. I think she reacts (eczema flare-up) when she eats coconut oil and when I eat coconut products, although not when I eat coconut oil unless that is the reason her eczema won't go away. I don't think it is die-off because this has been going on for too long. I really, really do not want to eliminate coconut oil from my diet--1/3 of my calories come from it and I can't use olive oil in nearly as many ways as I use CO. Here's my dilemma: if she doesn't noticeably react when I eat CO, even though she reacts to other CO products and when she eats CO, is she less likely to outgrow a coconut sensitivity because she is continually being exposed to CO? Or could it be more of a dosage thing, where she has to be exposed to a certain amount of it before it affects her (assuming no visible reaction=no immune reaction, I guess)? Does that make sense?

This might do a better job of explaining than I can, from http://allergies.about.com/gi/dynami...dditives.info/

my understanding from research, and personal experience leads me to believe that there's a lot of immune reaction happening before any "visible" reaction shows up. allergists talk about "allergic load," where you can tolerate a lot of low exposure to your allergens, or a few big exposures, then you show a reaction, sort of a "straw that broke the camel's back" thing. the histamines released from low exposure can circulate and build up. my experience is that after i gave up dairy and soy 5 years ago (which i didn't think of myself as being allergic to), because dd1 was reacting to them in the bm, i "suddenly" was able to tolerate going to my friend's cat furry house without visibly reacting, and i didn't get seasonal allergies. i had been allergic to dairy as baby/child, and given soy formula as a result. (oh, and i was weaned at 2 weeks because i was "allergic" to mama's milk : great bfing support in the 60's). i was probably allergic to them all along, especially looking back on the dairy cravings i had.

also, if your baby is getting a consistent level of exposure, she might not "show" any reaction because the baseline you're referencing is one of that constant exposure.

sorry i can't offer support for continuing coconut. this gut stuff is so frustrating, full of hope at new ideas, then despair when things don't get/stay better. and so much effort making and eating things that aren't very satisfying.

[moonshine]

All this talk of allergies makes me wonder if that is also what I am dealing with. Since October, I am getting face rashes, which I never had before. They are now happening fast and furiously, as in, as I am almost healed from a flareup, it starts again. I noticed the start of another one yesterday. This morning I woke up and my eyes are so swollen I can barely see. I really don't know what to do about this. Blood tests indicated that I am not allergic to anything I was tested for (apple, coconut, walnuts, almonds, banana, gluten, carrots, avocado, cinnamon). But I am clearly reacting to something. I have no idea how to make this go away. Today I am trying H2O2, as soon as DH comes back with an eye dropper. Allergy medicine (Benedryl, Claratin, Zertec) is not helping -- should that tell me something?

If anyone has any ideas on how to reduce swelling (as in my eyelid is swollen to about 500x its normal size) I would be most appreciative.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by moonshine

All this talk of allergies makes me wonder if that is also what I am dealing with. Since October, I am getting face rashes, which I never had before. They are now happening fast and furiously, as in, as I am almost healed from a flareup, it starts again. I noticed the start of another one yesterday. This morning I woke up and my eyes are so swollen I can barely see. I really don't know what to do about this. Blood tests indicated that I am not allergic to anything I was tested for (apple, coconut, walnuts, almonds, banana, gluten, carrots, avocado, cinnamon). But I am clearly reacting to something. I have no idea how to make this go away. Today I am trying H2O2, as soon as DH comes back with an eye dropper. Allergy medicine (Benedryl, Claratin, Zertec) is not helping -- should that tell me something?

If anyone has any ideas on how to reduce swelling (as in my eyelid is swollen to about 500x its normal size) I would be most appreciative.

You poor thing That sounds really uncomfortable.

I know that all of those meds have corn or corn-derived ingredients (I know because dd and I can't have them due to corn allergy).

Also, dd is the one that tested positive for corn, but once we eliminated it (she's bfing), a small itchy patch on my face cleared up (I'd had it for 3 years). It was annoying but somehow, I never thought seriously about it and never attributed it to an allergy.

Did you test for soy? I think there are soy derivatives in some of those meds, too.

[Chinese Pistache]

Originally Posted by firefaery

That would be almost impossible. We could be doing SCD with no dairy, eggs, nuts, tomato, peaches, banana, avacado, coconut, plums, carrots, peanuts, pear, apple, orange, onion etc... I'm just not up for that.

We have IgE and IgG. I am doing far more than diet stuff to reset their systems. Beyond diet and supplements we do EFT, homeopathy, accupuncture, CST etc. I don't believe in chasing allergens, but in healing the body. Everything needs to be addressed for this to happen. I feel like that is what we are doing. We have tried so many things. I still have a few tricks up my sleeve though....we'll see.

Well, if anyone can overcome it, you can! You're such a wealth of knowledge and I know that I appreciate all the information you provide on this thread. Now if we could only get a HTG subforum

[moonshine]

Actually I did test for corn, not sure about soy. I don't take any of those pills regularly, but I have gotten a bit desperate. I too one Benedryl this morning and it made no difference, same with Zertec.

[Panserbjorne]

Moonshine- how did you test for allergies? WHat kind of blood test? And was it just for IgE or for IgG too? I'm very concerned that your eyes are swelling shut at this point. You may need to think about an epi pen, if this is progressive and you haven't isolated the cause you may want to follow the better safe than sorry adage...

[Panserbjorne]

Not to be an alarmist, and I don't think that an epi pen solves anything, it is a medication and does have side effects. However it is better than risking an anaphylactic reaction.

[Pattyla]

Caedmyn- DD is doing well. (knock wood) we have made a few changes here and I'm not sure what to atribute the changes too but I'm feeling optimistic. We did a homeopathic remedy last week on wed. On thurs at the chiro she was perfect! Didnt' need any kind of adjustment. Then we had a horrible weekend. I cleaned the bedroom really well on thurs. On Monday we got a air purifier for the bedroom and began getting bottled water for she and I that we know takes out floride (dd does much better at my parents house and they have well water). Starting Wed she is sleeping better and in general easier to be arround. I also am reading Sleepless in America and realizing that I have been missing her sleepy windows and am putting her down earlier for nap and bed and it is working! We'll see if this continues.

Ugh, I've got to sneak by her door and go downstairs now or I'll be stuck up here till her nap is over and I haven't gotten lunch yet. Hopefully I'll bbl tonight.

[Punchy Kaby]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

It does make sense...my issue with feeding DD things she reacts to is that she ISN'T healing, in fact she's gotten worse. So I wonder if her poor little body is so busy reacting to the allergens that she isn't able to do any healing.

Sometimes I feel that way, too...the more I learn the less I know!

It is frustrating to be so diligent about diet and supplements and feel like this. The more strict I became with SCD the worse DS got. In theory the diet makes so much sense, but when it comes down to it if there are naturally occurring chemicals in food that I cannot tolerate, even if the are monosaccarides/easy to digest, my body will not process them. The only thing that is clear to me right now is that my liver isn't keeping up with what I am giving it. I am trying to figure out how this gut healing and Failsafe work together, what the underlying causes are to all of our problems.

I am being very careful to follow the Failsafe elimination diet, that means I am not taking any supplements, remedies, herbs, using no lotions, and simple unscented soaps and cleaners and trying to avoid strong scents of any kind. I want to be as meticulous as I possibly can because I feel desperate to help DS. Since I started cutting down on amines and salycilates I have had stinky pee, my body is getting rid of something! I am expecting things to get worse before they get better as we detox. From what other failsafers say it may take 1-2 months.

[caedmyn]

moonshine--vitamin C is supposed to help with histamine reactions