Dads and Co-Sleeping

[Squirrelly]

Hi, all--

I'm writing this out of concern for some friends. My husband and I are friends with three couples who have had babies within the last five months. All the wives wanted to, and thusly do, have their babies sleep with them.

As time went by, my husband and I heard from the husbands regarding this situation--and they were not happy at all. They felt their wives saw them as less important than the baby, they felt isolated, they felt they were not part of the decision, etc. They also felt that every time they tried to talk about this with their wives, they were shut down. These are all really nice guys who love their wives and kids, and I feel for them.

I guess what I'm asking is this: is there a way for the men in these situations to have some kind of meaningful discussion about where the baby should sleep? I think they're all resigned and, even worse, embittered by this.

I'm a woman, and I can understand wanting to have your baby near you, but I also think that a strong marriage between parents is crucial to the development of a child. Also, I think a couple should decide together how to handle the raising of their child. Parents should have equal say--fathers are too often absent from their children's lives these days, and to discourage them from participating is a shame.

I just have no idea what to say or do--I can see both sides to this, but it does seem as if the father's opinion is often secondary.

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated! My hubby and I are kind of in the middle of this whole thing, and we really wish we could help!

[AmieV]

I honestly think that if dads want to make a big stink about cosleeping, they need to shoulder their load of the nighttime parenting. Too often I hear of breastfeeding families where the dad doesn't want to cosleep...what sense does that make?? He is not the one doing the work.

If these men want to open a dialogue about this, they need to begin by offering to make it as easy as possible on the mama, by going to get the baby when they wake in the night (and that means AS SOON AS they wake up, which is sometimes tough for men I think because their instincts aren't as in tune as mom's), change the diaper if need be, and bring baby to mom to nurse, or take baby back to their room when they're done eating, at every. single. feeding. Honestly once they do that a few nights most dads seem to feel like cosleeping is not such a bad idea.

Also they need to acknowledge how their wives might be feeling. I know I was very, very, very anxious in the first few months after my baby was born and when she was not in bed with me I was checking on her several times a night when she started sleeping through.

I kind of fundamentally disagree with you and the guys on this one...I can see when a baby gets older and dad doesn't want to continue to cosleep with a 3 year old that kicks him all night...but a nursing baby needs to be close to his/her mama, and usually mama needs to be close to baby. It's how we're designed. I think it's being way overdramatic to think that your marriage is coming in second or going to be damaged by 6 months-1 year of cosleeping. I also don't think that all parenting decisions are 50/50. Like I said, it's way more work for the nursing mother to have baby in another room, so I do think her opinion holds more weight. There are also a lot of benefits, like a reduction in SIDS, to cosleeping that these dads should consider IMO.

I know my DH and I were sort of freaked about cosleeping with our first DD, but this time around we are seasoned enough to know that you do what works. I guess I am just lucky that I have a DH that knows and trusts our marriage is strong enough to spend a few months on the couch so that we can ALL get a better night of rest. It's not just about considering the needs of the couple or the marriage to me...it's about considering the needs of the whole family, and I also think that if baby needs to be in bed, dad is in a much better position to understand and sacrifice a little than the baby is.

[guest9921]

My partner took a few months of warming up until he was sold entirely on the cosleeping idea. After a few weeks, I asked him to put the giant eyesore of a crib away - due to lack of space (old house, small rooms.)
He kind of freaked. "What do you mean put it away, isn't he going to use it soon??" I cried. How could anyone think I would ever put my son in a crib? He agreed - a few more months, and then we'd talk again about transitioning. Until then, the crib could reside in the basement.

I believe it's just part of my partners loving nature - but now, at 16m he's a hardcore cosleeping activist.

As PP said - babies and mothers are designed for closeness.
I suppose the mothers could either take a stand, and because of the fragile relationship egos of their partners - they may end up in a big conflict.
Or - they can approach it in a babystep type ideal as I did - a few more months....and then we'll talk about it, kind of thing. Make them feel more comfortable - spend more time with them, reassure their virility - the first 5-6 months are so hard, I tend to forget how much they threw our relationship into wacky limbo.

[alegna]

Ya know what? Dad's wants ARE second to baby's needs. So are mom's. That's part of being a parent. Any man who isn't ready to face that, isn't ready to be a dad. I think it's largely a maturity issue.

-Angela

[Demeter9]

Encourage the men to do some looking into the subject. They probably are feeling cut out because they aren't the centre of their wives world anymore AND they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

As in, I imagine their wives have looked into the issue and their husbands have not. They are attempting the do the one thing that men tend to castigate women about the most - they are making an issue and a decision based solely on their emotions. Not on data, only on how THEY feel about it. And because that simply doesn't cut it with their wives they are angry - at their wives.

They need to grow up, go look into the information sort out their reasons. That way they are approaching the thing from a position of knowledge. As it is, I imagine that they are embittered because they KNOW that they are being little pouty boys and want their wives to fix the situation for them. But they also know that their wives are being excellent mothers, and doing the best they can for their off-spring and so feel extra pouty since they know they ARE NOT as commited as their wives and feel guilty about it.

Asking their wives to be worse mothers to make them feel better isn't the solution.

[vanessab23]

Originally Posted by alegna

Ya know what? Dad's wants ARE second to baby's needs. So are mom's. That's part of being a parent. Any man who isn't ready to face that, isn't ready to be a dad. I think it's largely a maturity issue.

-Angela

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[Squirrelly]

Babies are entirely dependent on their parents--that's not even an issue. But why do some mothers marginalize their husbands, when they are only trying to do what they're told? Yes, a baby needs his or her mother. But what about the father? I cannot understand why a mother would ignore and trivialize her husband about something they both created, and thusly both have responsibility.

Women have been trying to get the fathers of their children to be more attentive and more involved for years--by maginilizing them, how in the world does that help? If both the mother AND the father of a child would equally bear the roughness and joys of raising their child, society might be a bit better off.

Why do we assume men cannot understand the bond between mother and child? Why do we think men are incapable of understanding women and what we feel with our children? That is where the fundamental problem lies. Many women assume their husbands are not equipped to care for babies, and so they refuse to help their husbands to get to know the role of a father.

My sister, for example, has a husband who tries his darndest to help raise their son, but she constantly yells at him because he's not doing things the way she would do them. The poor guy loves his son, but is afraid to do anything. My other sister has a husband who is very attentive to his kids and has been from the start because he and my sister decided they were equal partners, and would always decide on their children's upbringing together.

And that is my point--the mother and father should agree on every point. If we continue to chastise and marginalize men, what good are we doing? Yes, they obviously can't breastfeed, but why would they be unable to do other things? By saying they are useless, we are making them useless. I think a lot of fathers would help out if we would allow them to. I've seen it happen, and it's incredibly natural. Both partners can figure out a way to equally raise their child.

I should probably add that my sisters and I were raised by my father, and he was a wonderful parent!

[AmieV]

Yes, mothers want fathers to be more involved. But not more involved in making decisions that are selfishly motivated, like kicking baby out of bed. What reason do these dads have for not wanting to cosleep? I'm willing to bet they're getting shut down on these discussions because they don't have a leg to stand on. When I think of all the sacrifices and pressures having children has put on our marriage, cosleeping is WAY off in the distance on the list of Important Discussions to Have.

I really don't get your last post at all. Yes, mothers and fathers should bear the load of parenting equally. Night and day. Are you saying these dads are willing to do all that I mentioned in my previous post just to not cosleep? Are you aware that even the AAP recommends nursing babies sleep close to their mothers (they fall short of recommending actual cosleeping because some idiots will do it unsafely) to establish and maintain a healthy milk supply?

I think what mothers want from fathers is active participants, in the research and reading and the practical day to day work.

I just think your basic assumption--that cosleeping somehow is a hardship on dad--is wrong. Any man that can't buck up and deal with a little cosleeping, ESPECIALLY since among your friends the oldest baby is 5 months old? is far from ready to be a father, the kind of father you're describing, an active participant. Is his need to sleep in the same bed alone with his wife every single night on the same level as the baby needing to be there? That makes absolutely no sense. We're talking tiny babies here. Yeah, their needs come first, far and away, before anyone in that house. I could really use 8 hours of sleep right now, but guess what? I ain't gettin' it because baby NEEDS to nurse every few hours.

I don't really understand what you're getting at here. Are you saying these dads are going to their wives with information on why cosleeping isn't good for their babies, and offering to shoulder their part of nighttime parenting to get baby out of bed? What motivations do they have for opening this dialogue? I think women trivialize men on this issue because they're arguing it for trivial reasons.

[Flor]

1. I don't really see how to compromise. (It's not like you can do every other night, or half-in-half out).

2. In my book, the one who is up at night makes the final call. If dad can give bm to babe all night, then, sure, it is his call. But, dad can't say that baby is in a crib, then expect me to get up and bf in a rocking chair or something.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by Squirrelly

Babies are entirely dependent on their parents--that's not even an issue. But why do some mothers marginalize their husbands, when they are only trying to do what they're told? Yes, a baby needs his or her mother. But what about the father? I cannot understand why a mother would ignore and trivialize her husband about something they both created, and thusly both have responsibility.

Women have been trying to get the fathers of their children to be more attentive and more involved for years--by maginilizing them, how in the world does that help? If both the mother AND the father of a child would equally bear the roughness and joys of raising their child, society might be a bit better off.

Of course, but if the dads aren't the ones getting up in the middle of the night to breastfeed, then why do they have equal say in where the baby sleeps?

[tamagotchi]

Squirrelly, I don't understand what you mean by saying that cosleeping is "marginalizing" fathers. Cosleeping gives fathers a chance to be close to baby all night, just like it does with mothers. Fathers can cuddle with the baby and take over some of the night time parenting. From watching my DH interact with our child, it's clear to me that cosleeping has helped him to feel close and involved.

Maybe there is something else going on in your friends' marriages. Are the husbands' complaints really about sex? Or do the husbands feel that they are not getting enough attention from their wives and the babies are getting all the attention? A lot of times that's what husbands mean when they complain about cosleeping.

[noahs_mommie]

Originally Posted by Squirrelly

Babies are entirely dependent on their parents--that's not even an issue. But why do some mothers marginalize their husbands, when they are only trying to do what they're told? Yes, a baby needs his or her mother. But what about the father? I cannot understand why a mother would ignore and trivialize her husband about something they both created, and thusly both have responsibility.

Women have been trying to get the fathers of their children to be more attentive and more involved for years--by maginilizing them, how in the world does that help? If both the mother AND the father of a child would equally bear the roughness and joys of raising their child, society might be a bit better off.

Is it more of a intimacy issue? Maybe the husbands needs in bed are not being met because of the baby and feels it's an introsion?

Just a thought. My hubby loves co-sleeping I guess I am lucky, But I also make sure his needs are met too!

[noahs_mommie]

Originally Posted by tamagotchi

Squirrelly, I don't understand what you mean by saying that cosleeping is "marginalizing" fathers. Cosleeping gives fathers a chance to be close to baby all night, just like it does with mothers. Fathers can cuddle with the baby and take over some of the night time parenting. From watching my DH interact with our child, it's clear to me that cosleeping has helped him to feel close and involved.

Maybe there is something else going on in your friends' marriages. Are the husbands' complaints really about sex? Or do the husbands feel that they are not getting enough attention from their wives and the babies are getting all the attention? A lot of times that's what husbands mean when they complain about cosleeping.

My thoughts exactley!

[vanessab23]

Originally Posted by noahs_mommie

Is it more of a intimacy issue? Maybe the husbands needs in bed are not being met because of the baby and feels it's an introsion?

Just a thought. My hubby loves co-sleeping I guess I am lucky, But I also make sure his needs are met too!

:

well said Noah's Mommie. There must be something else going on. And they are not the ones to be awake all night, so they do not get to decide.

p.s. I too am lucky-- DP loves to spoon DS-- that's where they are right now, snuggled up in our bed. Neither would have it any other way, It's just so sweet

[noahs_mommie]

It was a big issue when DS was born but now we just make time to be together whenever it is possible. It really has helped out alot. Talk with them about it and see if this is the case I willing to bet that this is the underlying issue. Had I not talked to DH about it we would still be battling with this ourselves. However, I am the one who has to BF and has to get up and change diapers but I do not mind at all I love being able to be close to my DS. Before too long he won't be little anymore

Originally Posted by vanessab23

:

well said Noah's Mommie. There must be something else going on. And they are not the ones to be awake all night, so they do not get to decide.

p.s. I too am lucky-- DP loves to spoon DS-- that's where they are right now, snuggled up in our bed. Neither would have it any other way, It's just so sweet

[Squirrelly]

There are fathers out there who probably love co-sleeping. That's really great! I wish all men felt that way. I'm just saying that there are some fathers who are afraid to say what they think, and feel terrible and trapped by their feelings--what they think no longer matters. They love their babies, but they don't like co-sleeping, and don't want to upset their wives. They don't want to hurt anyone, and so they play along. I've heard this from several of my husband's friends--I'm not making anything up.

My brother-in-law is a developmental pediatrician, and I've heard many stories from him about this issue. If both parents are in total agreement, then nifty! But, he's told me that rarely happens. He emphazises that a strong marriage is the best thing for any child.

Wanting the best for your child is only natural. To exclude your husband in the raising of your child is almost spiteful, in my very humble opinion.

[noahs_mommie]

Originally Posted by Squirrelly

There are fathers out there who probably love co-sleeping. That's really great! I wish all men felt that way. I'm just saying that there are some fathers who are afraid to say what they think, and feel terrible and trapped. They love their babies, but they don't like co-sleeping, and don't want to upset their wives. They don't want to hurt anyone.

I am not trying to be rude at all but do you think that it is strange that they are not talking about it with their wives? I think it could be good to have a heart to heart about it and if he feels he is being selfish more reason for him to talk about it. Because not communicating about it on a healthy level is not good for thenm either. I hope your friends can get this worked out. Also it doesn't last forever

[alegna]

Originally Posted by Squirrelly

There are fathers out there who probably love co-sleeping. That's really great! I wish all men felt that way. I'm just saying that there are some fathers who are afraid to say what they think, and feel terrible and trapped. They love their babies, but they don't like co-sleeping, and don't want to upset their wives. They don't want to hurt anyone.

See, there are some dads who hate diaper changes too- so? Goes with the territory. Baby NEEDS to be with mom- day and night- simple biology. If dad doesn't want baby to breastfeed does he get to veto that too?

-Angela

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by Squirrelly

There are fathers out there who probably love co-sleeping. That's really great! I wish all men felt that way. I'm just saying that there are some fathers who are afraid to say what they think, and feel terrible and trapped. They love their babies, but they don't like co-sleeping, and don't want to upset their wives. They don't want to hurt anyone.

Maybe I'm cold-hearted, but I'm just not all that moved by this. Part of me wonders what kind of man would be so self-centered that he would want to interfere with a co-sleeping, breastfeeding baby and its mother. And part of me thinks that if a man can't suck it up and have an actual conversation about it with his wife--one where he's REALLY willing to listen--he's lost his right to complain. And part of me thinks that just "not liking" something isn't reason enough not to do it--not when you're a parent. Heaven knows I don't "like" taking care of three sick children, but I've done it because I believe it to be best. And part of me is thanking God that my husband loves cuddling our babies and children in the family bed.

[josybear]

noah's mommie, squirrelly said that the wives wouldn't listen when the hubbies tried to talk about it.

imo, if one parent isn't happy with something, communication needs to occur. if dh ever stopped liking cosleeping, i'd want to know why. is it because we're crowded? is it because he feels it's unsafe? is he tired of having ds between us so we can't snuggle? is it the nighttime interruptions? there must be a reason.
as the parent that does the nighttime parenting 90% of the time, i have the stronger vote on how we sleep. but i don't want dh upset or feeling pushed aside, either.
so these friends of yours need to sit down face to face and talk about the issues at hand. the wives may not feel like talking, i know i didn't feel like facing issues in the first 9 months of ds's life, but for the health of the relationship, communication is vital.
wow, that was a long sentence.