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Update on Hawaii Trip - Page 2

post #21 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
But, not yelling and spanking are things that could freak people out--really scar young children. So that's more of a protection issue, to me.

<snip>

These are different parenting philosophies. Just b/c you think your way is better doesn't make it ok to impose it on someone else.

Prohibiting people from hitting each other in my house just doesn't strike me the same as someone interfering in what another person feeds their kids.

I just think there is a level of arrogance with MSIL that is totally galling when it comes to parenting issues.
But to some people spanking vs. not spanking is just a difference in parenting philosophies. Some people think that spanking is not scarring and in fact benefitial to the child. The truth of the matter is that you just draw your line between what is never acceptable in you house differently from MSIL.

I have a close family member whose 4 y.o. watches movies on a portable DVD player at restaurants but this same 4 y.o. will never watch movies at the dinner table at my house. To me that is unacceptable and it *is* my house. Of course, that might be part of the reason that they don't come to visit which was certainly CSIL's perogative.
post #22 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post
The truth of the matter is that you just draw your line between what is never acceptable in you house differently from MSIL.
Insisting that people refrain from hitting each other in one's house just is not on the same level as insisting on how much time people spend with their own children or what they feed them.
post #23 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Insisting that people refrain from hitting each other in one's house just is not on the same level as insisting on how much time people spend with their own children or what they feed them.
CSIL knew all the rules before she went, and she chose to go and stay at MSIL's house. House rules about kids upstairs, eating what is on the table, and picking up are all completely reasonable. CSIL could have stayed at a hotel if she wanted.

CSIL could have gone upstairs to see her kids, and she did, but they didn't want her there. They could have eaten PB in their room, or not gone out for Japanese food, but they chose to and had a good time and tried new food and didn't starve to death.

Sometimes you need a little push to get out of your comfort zone. They weren't being fed junk food, or forced to do anything that they didn't want to do.

Since CSIL knew (as did all of us) exactly how things were going to be, she could have been a little more gracious and encouraging of her kids, and herself, to try new things.
post #24 of 167
I completely agree that MSIL made the rules very clear and that CSIL knew that going in.

I just can't imagine how a mother trying to go along with her husband's wishes into a place where her parenting philosophies are being undermined is supposed to act grateful to her hostess for undermining her.

I think you act civilly and say please and thank you, obviously. But, w/ re. to the parenting stuff? I don't think you get to insist that people parent the way you think they should AND expect their gratitude for it.
post #25 of 167
I'm glad you guys had fun. I didn't see your previous post about it until this post caused me to go look for it. Overall sounds like a lot of family get togethers in its basic premise. All of these individuals related by marriage or blood forced to come together and the history involved. I just wish my family nightmares took place in Hawaii.
post #26 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Insisting that people refrain from hitting each other in one's house just is not on the same level as insisting on how much time people spend with their own children or what they feed them.
To you. What you call hitting, a most of the people here, in TX, call "popping" and see it a) as no big deal and b) as a necessary tool to curb "bad behavior". I agree that hitting one's children is wrong and I agree that the degree of whether or not to hit the child is more important then what the child eats but not everyone values these things the same. Some people here would think that a child's refusal to eat what is offered is a power struggle and rates right up there with corporal punishment. Again, these are your values and even though I tend to agree with the values, I disagree that everyone weighs them equally.

ETA: I am glad almost everyone had a good time. I also agree that both CSIL and MSIL sound like a little bit of a PITA and I am on Maya's side.
post #27 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post
To you. What you call hitting, a most of the people here, in TX, call "popping" and see it a) as no big deal and b) as a necessary tool to curb "bad behavior".
My point is not that they are equal parenting issues, my point is that one is a personal boundary ("You may not hit in my home.") and one is an imposition on another's parenting ("Spend more/less time with your children in my home.")

Requesting that people not hit or spank in your home as a way to impose on someone's parenting is also different than requesting that people not hit or spank in your home b/c you find it upsetting.

And finding spanking upsetting just doesn't equate with finding that someone spends too much time with their children.

That MSIL is that upset by what her SIL feeds her kids or that she spends too much time with them makes me think she is wildly controlling and/or codependent. Seriously...I think it is really disturbing.
post #28 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post

That MSIL is that upset by what her SIL feeds her kids or that she spends too much time with them makes me think she is wildly controlling and/or codependent. Seriously...I think it is really disturbing.

I agree with this but I think both SILs are in the wrong here. There are limits on how much a hostess should bend for her guests, and there is a limit on how much guests should bend for their hosts. I think CSIL in this case is essentially being railroaded by the MSIL because MSIL has money and a huge house. However, it is difficult to host 20 people for any length of time, so.... . I think it could definitely have been worked out to everyone's benefit if things hadn't been so strained from the get go.
post #29 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
That MSIL is that upset by what her SIL feeds her kids or that she spends too much time with them makes me think she is wildly controlling and/or codependent. Seriously...I think it is really disturbing.
I agree with this. It really kind of weirds me out.

I do see the spanking issue as different. I wouldn't let someone hit their kids in my house, because it would freak out my kids. I'm not trying to tell them how to parent in my home - I'm asking them to respect my children's boundaries.

I think MSIL goes way beyond these boundaries on many issues, including food. I do realize, however, that my take on this is coloured by my own childhood. I'd have gagged if someone had tried to get me to eat anything Maya describes as being on the table the first night, and I'd have been pissed at my mom for letting them get away with it, honestly. (For the record, my mom did encourage me to try other foods, but I wasn't interested. In fact, I was violently opposed to the idea.)

It does sound as though CSIL and her dh had discussed this thoroughly ahead of time, and CSIL did go along with MSIL's rules. I'm not sure why anybody would expect her to do so happily. I wouldn't be happy if I had to parent differently to keep my hostess happy. As I said in the original thread, I have no idea what I'd do in CSIL's situation, as I would prefer not to go at all, but that would upset dh...


I'm glad it all worked out, Maya. It sounds as though things went much more smoothly than anyone would have expected. I take it that it will be a few years until these issues come up again, as the next gathering is in CSIL's city and doesn't involve the "hostess/houseguest" aspect? Are you also in the rotation to host this?
post #30 of 167
It sounds like they both have some control issues, but no Hawaii vacation would make me deal with MSIL's power trip. I'm not down with the "I have the money so I make the rules" attitude. She sounds like an awful hostess. You're supposed to make your guests comfortable in your home.
post #31 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I think MSIL goes way beyond these boundaries on many issues, including food. I do realize, however, that my take on this is coloured by my own childhood. I'd have gagged if someone had tried to get me to eat anything Maya describes as being on the table the first night, and I'd have been pissed at my mom for letting them get away with it, honestly. (For the record, my mom did encourage me to try other foods, but I wasn't interested. In fact, I was violently opposed to the idea.)

It does sound as though CSIL and her dh had discussed this thoroughly ahead of time, and CSIL did go along with MSIL's rules. I'm not sure why anybody would expect her to do so happily. I wouldn't be happy if I had to parent differently to keep my hostess happy. As I said in the original thread, I have no idea what I'd do in CSIL's situation, as I would prefer not to go at all, but that would upset dh...


I'm glad it all worked out, Maya. It sounds as though things went much more smoothly than anyone would have expected. I take it that it will be a few years until these issues come up again, as the next gathering is in CSIL's city and doesn't involve the "hostess/houseguest" aspect? Are you also in the rotation to host this?
Well yes there is a rotation, but it is is more than once a year. We go to MSIL's over winter break and go to CSIL's in the spring (usually over a long weekend). Everyone comes to me in the summer for a long weekend also or to our summer place.

BTY, would you really not have eaten plain bread? As I said in the OP (there was bread with some dipping sauces...garlic, tomato and goat cheese on the side)
post #32 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
Well yes there is a rotation, but it is is more than once a year. We go to MSIL's over winter break and go to CSIL's in the spring (usually over a long weekend). Everyone comes to me in the summer for a long weekend also or to our summer place.
Ah - okay...misunderstood the setup. That sounds pretty good. We live in a small townhouse, so we can't really have family over here.

Quote:
BTY, would you really not have eaten plain bread? As I said in the OP (there was bread with some dipping sauces...garlic, tomato and goat cheese on the side)
What kind of bread? Maybe - maybe not. I liked one kind of white bread, and several kinds of whole wheat, and that was about it. Depending on age, I didn't even care for most rolls (hamburger buns and hot dog buns were okay).
post #33 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by fek&fuzz View Post
CSIL could have gone upstairs to see her kids, and she did, but they didn't want her there. They could have eaten PB in their room, or not gone out for Japanese food, but they chose to and had a good time and tried new food and didn't starve to death.

Sometimes you need a little push to get out of your comfort zone. They weren't being fed junk food, or forced to do anything that they didn't want to do.

Since CSIL knew (as did all of us) exactly how things were going to be, she could have been a little more gracious and encouraging of her kids, and herself, to try new things.
:
She sounded pretty smug and righteous, honestly. I do wonder if anything will carry over since, obviously, her kids enjoyed themselves.
post #34 of 167
I am so glad it went well. I was on the MSILs side and I say rock on. I think its good the CSILs kids got to experience a great vacation, follow some rules, and eat some different foods. (not to mention having mom up their butt)
post #35 of 167
See, here's the thing..... and to me, this is the biggest reason that makes MSIL right and CSIL out in left field.....

CSIL's youngest child is 8. The youngest. At 8 and up, kids can totally roll with the punches and figure stuff out for themselves. Especially with family.


MAYA! Thank you so much for updating us. I seriously have been looking for your thread. How sad am I??????
post #36 of 167
Yay! Thanks for the update! I was wondering about you all. I think it sounds like a good time overall. I wanna go next year!
post #37 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
Insisting that people refrain from hitting each other in one's house just is not on the same level as insisting on how much time people spend with their own children or what they feed them.
Not only is it not on the "same level", it is a different kind of insistence altogether. One is a prohibition. As far as I am concerned, I have a right to prohibit pretty much whatever I want in my house, from spanking to smoking to eating and swearing. You don't like it, then don't come over. I believe that this is altogether different from requiring someone to actively do something in my house - to attend a party or to make my children eat something, for example. (However, in this regard, note that MSIL never said that CSIL's children HAD to eat anything. She just said that there would be nothing else available on the table, which I think is altogether reasonable).

Quote:
Things started out tense when they took drink orders and CSIL was not thrilled that we all let the kids get sodas and these Japanese Bubble juices. She doesn't like her kids to have this but relented.
I would be CSIL in that situation. I already experience this in playgroup events where other (2-year old!!!!) children are being given Coca-Cola and other sodas. In this case, I just give my DD water and she does not ask for anything else, but I imagine that as she gets older, she will start to ask to have the soda as well.

I think that in that situation, you either have to speak to the parents ahead of time and get them to all agree that the kids will be having water or milk or whatever, or just decide yourself whether you, as a general matter, are going to go along with the other parents and let your child have the soda when you are out or not. The real world is out there and your child is going to be exposed to sodas and other evil things more and more so I think you have to find a way to deal with this kind of event early on.
post #38 of 167
A lot of the food issues could have been dealt with ahead of time by CSIL by simply explaining to MSIL that her kids are picky eaters and she wanted to have back up food for them. I don't know MSIL has sounded pretty accomodating to things, I wouldn't be suprised if at some point in the past she had asked both SILs what sort of things their kids eat to ensure that she had it in the house. Plopping down bread and PB and J for every meal at someone else's house and not even trying what's on offer is rude imho. There are better ways of dealing with it.

I was raised in a house where you tried everything that was on offer. You didn't have to eat a plate full of if but you had to try it. That's the rule in my house as well. It takes somewhere betwee 3-6 tries of somethings in order to grow to like them. And I do feel it's part of my job as a mother to make sure dd has a varied diet and includes a wide range of things. I think MSIL made an outstanding effort to make sure there was something for even the pickiest eater. Even breaking things down so that if you didn't want sauce on your pasta you didn't have to have it. Good lord she even served one night the one thing the kids do eat according to CSIL.
post #39 of 167
Quote:
That night at home MSIL said to me, "this just proves that if you don't give them peanut butter at every meal....."
If this was said in csil's hearing, then that is just rude. However, it's the only think I can fault msil on.
post #40 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lab View Post
See, here's the thing..... and to me, this is the biggest reason that makes MSIL right and CSIL out in left field.....

CSIL's youngest child is 8. The youngest. At 8 and up, kids can totally roll with the punches and figure stuff out for themselves. Especially with family.
ITA with this. It's not like MSIL was asking her to leave her toddler upstairs with a stranger for a party, or force her preschooler to eat some bizarre foreign delicacies. By the time a child is 8, if they're not rolling with the punches and figuring things out for themselves, it's about time they learn to start. CSIL isn't doing them any favors in that regard.

On priniciple I agree that it wasn't MSIL's job to force CSIL into a new parenting role (especially in such a passive-aggressive way with an email that was so clearly directed at all the things that annoyed MSIL on the last trip), and I certainly would have bristled at it too, but none of the rules seemed all that over-the-top to me.

Glad most everyone had a good time .
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