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Update on Hawaii Trip - Page 4

post #61 of 167
No joke!
post #62 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom
But, she did follow the rules. And so did her kids, right?

But, people are still saying she's being a "pill" about it. And my point is how many concessions is one parent supposed to make to please another family member and be 100% chipper and grateful about it?

Regardless of what you think about her values, she gave in to a lot of things. And instead of being grateful, MSIL was smug that she got the result she wanted.
I agree. Why couldn't MSIL just be happy that things went smoothly? Why rub CSIL's nose in it?
post #63 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godaime View Post
yup I also think this is ridiculous.... Lets see...Csil's children went...had fun...actually tried the new foods(without force), enjoyed time away from their mom at the sleepover, obviously its not csil's children that had problems with the rules but its CSIL who couldn't take it. Nothing msil did was out of line...all the kids had fun...no suffering...no starving.... Team msil wins this time.
so if I have guests in my home who never let their kids watch PG-13 movies, and I let the kids watch PG-13 movies, and the kids have FUN!, does that make what I did OK?

What about vegan kids eating meat? What if they like it and have FUN!?

I'm just not buying that it is OK to undermine another parent based on how much fun it is for the kid.
post #64 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by OnTheFence View Post
The bottom line is that CSIL knew the deal before going. If she didn't want to follow the rules of the house for the vacation at MSIL, she didnt have to go or let her kids go.
In the previous thread, it sounded like she really had no choice. This is her DH's family, not hers, and she is stuck going.

Or let her family go over the holidays without her.

Or force her DH to never see his brother again.

Really, she didn't have any good options.
post #65 of 167
DH and I discussed this thread heatedly last night and I have to admit that he made some good points (don't tell him I said that ).

My points:
Ok, the soda thing and the tv thing, CSIL's kids don't have to drink/watch just because their cousins are and forbidding these actions just aren't fair to everyone else.

It is kinda controlling to say that an adult must attend a party. I thought it was pretty funny that CSIL's kids kicked her out of their room but honestly if CSIL didn't want to attend then that should be her perogative.

DH's points that I now agree with:
Whether I agree with the pb&j thing or not, CSIL's kids are people too and they shouldn't be coerced into eating something they do not want. DH also says that it is not the same thing for me to prepare a large meal for 20 people and for my chef (don't I wish) to prepare a large meal for 20 so I shouldn't get my feelings hurt if the chef prepares it. I don't know, I haven't been in that situation. The other thing is that MSIL knows the kids will eat pb&j and that's about it, so she is not being accomodating if she doesn't accomodate the kids too. Although I think that CSIL is completely wrong to allow her kids to eat nothing but pb&j, that is not my call and isn't MSIL's.

We didn't get around to talking about the rest, his hair stylist was ready for him. -He cut off two feet of hair last night. Eek.

Oh, and not thanking MSIL for the large meal that she paid for when they went out is plain rude. I actually think that CSIL reeks of rudeness in the, "I'm the mom who has to do everything my way even when I am trying to cohabitate for a week with 15 other people who also want things their way" sort of way. I'm related to too many people like that so it irks me in a way that the power trip MSIL is on doesn't.

Real quick, I would like to point out that other then the party, CSIL could spend as much time with the kids as she wanted. The kids were the ones running off with their cousins.

I'll be power-tripped in Hawaii anytime.
post #66 of 167
Thread Starter 
Okay, I have to relay one funny thing. While we were at dinner one night CSIL started talking about some issue about diapers. (MSIL's baby wears 'spoises) and she said something like "Well in MOTHERING there was an article..."

And MBIL says to my DH "Mothering"? Hey isn't that that crackpot magazine mom used to get when the bros were little (DH and MBIL are the oldest).

And then he says something like "You know one day a few years ago I was doing some reserach on google and I saw that there is some Website where these Mothering types go on and on about all their stuff...probably about how it's a good idea to buy their five year old boys a efiin loom!"
(here the background on that from a post in another thread!:
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
ITA!

And I hope you take THIS in the manner it is intended OP, but buying a 5 y.o. a pentatonic glockenspiel instead of a car, is just the kind of thing that caused my NFL raised BIL to become the " I can't buy ennough big boy "toys", can you believe my parents bought be a loom (yeah, I said a freaking LOOM) when I was 5 instead of the cool toy I wanted, No wonder I need therapy now and a job that pays me the big bucks" kind of man he is today!




And CSIL was like "yeah the only thing I am sad about our decision not to have internet access anymore is that I can't see that website."

And MBIL was like "it figures"

And me I was just I mean just him bringing up the whole loom thing that I had posted had me ready to :

post #67 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
Okay, I have to relay one funny thing. While we were at dinner one night CSIL started talking about some issue about diapers. (MSIL's baby wears 'spoises) and she said something like "Well in MOTHERING there was an article..."

And MBIL says to my DH "Mothering"? Hey isn't that that crackpot magazine mom used to get when the bros were little (DH and MBIL are the oldest).

And then he says something like "You know one day a few years ago I was doing some reserach on google and I saw that there is some Website where these Mothering types go on and on about all their stuff...probably about how it's a good idea to buy their five year old boys a efiin loom!"
(here the background on that from a post in another thread!:





And CSIL was like "yeah the only thing I am sad about our decision not to have internet access anymore is that I can't see that website."

And MBIL was like "it figures"

And me I was just I mean just him bringing up the whole loom thing that I had posted had me ready to :



It really is a small internet.
post #68 of 167
Ha! Maya, that's awesome!!
post #69 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalaland42 View Post
DH's points that I now agree with:
Whether I agree with the pb&j thing or not, CSIL's kids are people too and they shouldn't be coerced into eating something they do not want. DH also says that it is not the same thing for me to prepare a large meal for 20 people and for my chef (don't I wish) to prepare a large meal for 20 so I shouldn't get my feelings hurt if the chef prepares it. I don't know, I haven't been in that situation. The other thing is that MSIL knows the kids will eat pb&j and that's about it, so she is not being accomodating if she doesn't accomodate the kids too. Although I think that CSIL is completely wrong to allow her kids to eat nothing but pb&j, that is not my call and isn't MSIL's.
Still not convinced. First of all, noone was COERCING the kids to eat anything. How could you, short of shoving the fork down their throats? It is their body, after all. The issue is not that the kids were being forced to eat what was on the table but whether they should be offered peanut butter or other alternatives at the table when the host has either herself prepared or spent good money to have someone else prepare a meal.

I'm sorry but pulling peanut butter and jelly out at every single meal when you are staying at someone's house for 15 days is just plain rude. If your kids are fussy eaters, then send the host a list ahead of time of what your kids cannot or will not eat (or if it is too long a list, send the reverse - a list of what they will eat). And I just fundamentally disagree with offering children alternatives when a meal has been prepared - even at home. It is inconsiderate to the person who has made the meal (or to the person who has paid to have the meal prepared= and reeks of "spoiled brat". Again, you cannot force a child to put food in her mouth but you can offer what is on the table and let the child decide.

Another thing: This is what I don't understand about CSIL. She doesn't like her kids drinking the odd soda (which I understand) but then she has no problem with them eating peanut butter. I don't know what kind of peanut butter she gives her girls but commercial peanut butter is as bad if not worse than soda, healthwise, AFAIC. First of all it is full of sugar. Secondly, it is packed with hydrogenated vegetable oil (or as bad, palm oil). Thirdly, it is WAY too much protein when eaten at every meal and way too much fat to go with it. I just don't get it.

Maya, can you enlighten me as to this dietetic choice of hers? Why doesn't she forbid garbage peanut butter at every meal the way she forbids sodas?
post #70 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
If your kids are fussy eaters, then send the host a list ahead of time of what your kids cannot or will not eat (or if it is too long a list, send the reverse - a list of what they will eat).
She basically did. She said, my kids will eat pbj and I'll handle it.

Just like I have to do with my allergic kids when we visit or travel.

People's dietary considerations are no one else's business.

Whether you think their reasons are valid or not.
post #71 of 167
I don't recall from the previous posts that CSIL did do that. She basically let the hostess know by plopping it on the table every night. Dietary and allergy concerns are completely different from picky eaters.

A good hostess feels out what her crowd of guests likes and tries to accomodate as MSIL did when she served pizza the first night. But to just plop your meal on the table without giving what's on offer a try is rude. I know her nickname is CSIL but she seems far from crunchy when it comes to food choices.

Really the only thing I had a problem with is that adults had to attend the parties. All the other rules were perfectly reasonable. If CSIL didn't like the meal rule she had the option of going out or taking the kids out to the beach and serving them PB&J. She didn't have to sit at the dinner table and neither did her kids.
post #72 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
Dietary and allergy concerns are completely different from picky eaters.
To YOU. In YOUR mind.

Not in mine. Maybe not in CSIL's.

The point is, that MSIL has taken it upon herself to take CSIL's parenting to task here. And has made it very clear that *her* way (prohibiting the kids' desired food choice) is *the* way to get them to do what she wants (try other foods).

That's messed up.

Maybe it *is* the right way. But they aren't HER KIDS. And just because it's her house, and she can, doesn't mean that she should.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
If CSIL didn't like the meal rule she had the option of going out or taking the kids out to the beach and serving them PB&J. She didn't have to sit at the dinner table and neither did her kids.
That's true. But, to have to feed your kids in your room or not sit at the dinner table b/c someone else has an issue with how you feed your kids? That's a good hostess?
post #73 of 167
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
her kids drinking the odd soda (which I understand) but then she has no problem with them eating peanut butter. I don't know what kind of peanut butter she gives her girls but commercial peanut butter is as bad if not worse than soda, healthwise, AFAIC. First of all it is full of sugar. Secondly, it is packed with hydrogenated vegetable oil (or as bad, palm oil). Thirdly, it is WAY too much protein when eaten at every meal and way too much fat to go with it. I just don't get it.

Maya, can you enlighten me as to this dietetic choice of hers? Why doesn't she forbid garbage peanut butter at every meal the way she forbids sodas?

Well I think she uses some natural/organic p.b. MSIL does special order it for when CSIL is in town (its name is "______ Farms Natural Peanut Butter"..can't remember the exact name"). Her kids also eat some sort of mac and cheese (natural/organic brand) and some sort of yogurt. Also waffles and pizza. And some fruits.

One of the things they did like at MSIL's were her handcut sweet potato chips that she makes herself. They definitely were keyed up to try it because all of the other kids were scarfing them down and "yumming" it up. And of course because (in MSIL's eyes) there was nothing they liked on the table that night... We had Terriaki Salmon, White cheese Rissota and this yummy salad she makes along with the sweet potatos and I am sure CSIL's kids were hungry after a long day of swimming since we often were calling them in at the last minute.

MSIL did not say anything, but again her eyes spoke volumes.
post #74 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
To YOU. In YOUR mind.

Not in mine. Maybe not in CSIL's.

The point is, that MSIL has taken it upon herself to take CSIL's parenting to task here. And has made it very clear that *her* way (prohibiting the kids' desired food choice) is *the* way to get them to do what she wants (try other foods).
Obviously she doesn't since she does stock the house with PB and made pizza for them. It had nothing to do with prohibiting food choices and everything about basic, good table manners. Do you often go to other people's houses even family and bring your own food b/c you assume you won't like what the host or hostess is serving? I'm not talking about allergies or dietary concerns (like keeping kosher or being a vegan) I'm talking about just assuming you won't like what's being served? That's basically what CSIL was doing. Why bother to to someone's house?


Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
That's true. But, to have to feed your kids in your room or not sit at the dinner table b/c someone else has an issue with how you feed your kids? That's a good hostess?
How is it being a good guest to not even try what's on offer?
post #75 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
Obviously she doesn't since she does stock the house with PB and made pizza for them. It had nothing to do with prohibiting food choices and everything about basic, good table manners. Do you often go to other people's houses even family and bring your own food b/c you assume you won't like what the host or hostess is serving? I'm not talking about allergies or dietary concerns (like keeping kosher or being a vegan) I'm talking about just assuming you won't like what's being served? That's basically what CSIL was doing. Why bother to to someone's house?
OK, so even if it's good table manners, why does MSIL need to be the one to "teach" them to CSIL's kids?

But I'm not buying that it's table manners based on the comments MSIL has made about the peanut butter.

If someone came to my house and brought their own food for their kids (or themselves) I would assume there was some other issue that was NONE of my business. I certainly wouldn't ask for an expanation (other than maybe a casual inquiry) and I wouldn't request a doctor's note to see if it was only picky eating or something that was valid in my book.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
How is it being a good guest to not even try what's on offer?
It's not. But they're kids. It's up to their parents to take them to task (or not) for that.

You don't restrict their choices so that they either try the food or go hungry until they can eat in their room at a later time. Really, you don't think that's crazy? This aunt knows what her nieces like. They like PBJ. How hard is it to let the mother feed them that at the table? How does that impact anyone else? I, personally, would want EVERYone at my table to have an enjoyable, fulfilling meal. If that meant they crunched dry pasta that they brought from home, then go for it. How personally invested do you become in someone else's kids eating before it's totally rude and/or kooky?
post #76 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
If someone came to my house and brought their own food for their kids (or themselves) I would assume there was some other issue that was NONE of my business. I certainly wouldn't ask for an expanation (other than maybe a casual inquiry) and I wouldn't request a doctor's note to see if it was only picky eating or something that was valid in my book.
Actually I never invite anyone to my house regardless of relation for something that will involve a meal without inquiring about food allergies, preferences, dietary restrictions and general aversions. I would never invite anyone back who said, "anything's fine" and who then brought their own food and got snippy when I looked at askance upon it, regardless of relation to me.

But like I said earlier in a way - these two obviously have a long history. I'm on MSIL's side for the most part but I don't really know all of the details. For all we know MSIL may have tried to broach these topics in the past with CSIL and she got snippy and in order to maintain civility this was MSIL's desperate attempt to hold onto it. Or it could be MSIL has always hated CSIL and this is her revenge. Or most probably it somewhere in between.
post #77 of 167
I'm glad the trip worked out so well!
post #78 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
I don't recall from the previous posts that CSIL did do that. She basically let the hostess know by plopping it on the table every night. Dietary and allergy concerns are completely different from picky eaters.
Who says? Why is being a "picky eater" considered such a bad thing? If you're fortunate enough to enjoy a wide variety of foods - good for you. Some of us aren't. Some of us also have huge comfort zone issues involved in being somewhere strange and having to eat strange food. I'm 38, and I'm still not over this. When I'm staying with my in-laws, my stomach feels slightly 'off' the entire visit - because I'm not in my home, and I'm eating strange foods. There's nothing wrong with what they serve - I've really enjoyed a few of the new foods I've tried (FIL loves that I like mustard greens, as he was the only one in the family who did before I came along). But, that doesn't change the emotional side of it for me. It's hard to eat foods I'm not used to. When dh and I were thinking of moving to Knoxville, the different stock in the grocery stores was one of my biggest concerns. This may seem trivial to other people, but it's not trivial to me - and I'd bet there are a lot of 'picky eaters' in the same boat.

Then there's this one...a friend of our family...this little girl didn't like to eat meat when she was young. Her parents, in an attempt to get her to eat a 'balanced diet', and with real parental concern, always got her to eat some. It was a running battle for years. It eventually turned out that she lacks an enzyme necessary to digest meat properly. So - 'picky eater' turned out to be a genuine 'dietary concern'.

So - why is being 'picky' not valid?
post #79 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by maya44 View Post
...
MSIL did not say anything, but again her eyes spoke volumes.
Maya, other posters have said that MSIL was "smug" about winning (or whatever, hard to paraphrase) versus CSIL -- I noted the "eye-rolling" you referred to in your initial post (I think), and this quote above. I hadn't interpreted the eye-rolling as being smug or "nyah nyah" to CSIL, instead as mild exasperation of the "oh well, it's family" kind of thing.

Was there something I missed in your reports? And do you agree that MSIL was smug about the whole situation with CSIL?
post #80 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by WNB View Post
Maya, other posters have said that MSIL was "smug" about winning (or whatever, hard to paraphrase) versus CSIL -- I noted the "eye-rolling" you referred to in your initial post (I think), and this quote above. I hadn't interpreted the eye-rolling as being smug or "nyah nyah" to CSIL, instead as mild exasperation of the "oh well, it's family" kind of thing.

Was there something I missed in your reports? And do you agree that MSIL was smug about the whole situation with CSIL?
I'm interested to hear from Maya, too.

But, WNB, here are the parts that I was referring to:

Quote:
Somehow with all of the excitement with the flying shrimp and the hunger dn's ate their first shrimp and two of them pronouced it "good". MSIL gave me a smug little smile. DN's went on to eat rice and two of them ate the steak.

That night at home MSIL said to me, "this just proves that if you don't give them peanut butter at every meal....."
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