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Update on Hawaii Trip - Page 5

post #81 of 167
Thread Starter 
Hmmm, I don't know if I'd call MSIL "smug" about it. Well let me give an example. If one of your relatives lets say spanked and you told them they couldn't in your home and let's say they instead hd to try a GD method and it "worked." They let say gave their child a chance to throw something safe like a pillow and they stopped throwing the hard ball around. And then the next day the child said "Mama I feel like throwing, can you get me a pillow"

You might say (or at least think) "See, it just shows that a child does not have to be hit to learn how to behave"

I think this is the tone MSIL was taking. She feels that the way CSIL feeds her kids is limiting for them. She would think it is terrible that someone would have to worry about the kind of food available to them and that this issue could stop them from living somewhere or going to an exotic locale. She feels like its unfair to the child. So her response is sort of like "It does not have to be this way."
post #82 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Who says? Why is being a "picky eater" considered such a bad thing? If you're fortunate enough to enjoy a wide variety of foods - good for you. Some of us aren't. Some of us also have huge comfort zone issues involved in being somewhere strange and having to eat strange food. I'm 38, and I'm still not over this. When I'm staying with my in-laws, my stomach feels slightly 'off' the entire visit - because I'm not in my home, and I'm eating strange foods. There's nothing wrong with what they serve - I've really enjoyed a few of the new foods I've tried (FIL loves that I like mustard greens, as he was the only one in the family who did before I came along). But, that doesn't change the emotional side of it for me. It's hard to eat foods I'm not used to. When dh and I were thinking of moving to Knoxville, the different stock in the grocery stores was one of my biggest concerns. This may seem trivial to other people, but it's not trivial to me - and I'd bet there are a lot of 'picky eaters' in the same boat.

Then there's this one...a friend of our family...this little girl didn't like to eat meat when she was young. Her parents, in an attempt to get her to eat a 'balanced diet', and with real parental concern, always got her to eat some. It was a running battle for years. It eventually turned out that she lacks an enzyme necessary to digest meat properly. So - 'picky eater' turned out to be a genuine 'dietary concern'.

So - why is being 'picky' not valid?
Have you ever had yourself checked out to find out why your stomach is so off if you eat anything other than the limited range of food you eat? Your problems sound like something much deeper than simple pickiness.

I strive to be open minded about things and to ask my dd to be the same way. This extends to food. That's why I don't find pickiness the same as allergies or dietary restrictions.

Frankly most of the picky eaters I've met are overly proud of their pickiness like it's some badge of honor that they have. Like the people who claim to be lactose intolerant as they refuse aged cheese. Hey guess what, there's no lactose in aged cheese. But these same people will turn around and seem to have no problem with cream sauce.

Sorry I see nothing wrong with MSIL wanting to broaden the horizons of CSIL's children. Could it have been done in a better way? Sure. But as I said above we don't know the full history and even with the smug remarks there could be much deeper history than just this one trip. Well, obviously there is.
post #83 of 167

What a great thread!

Maya - thanks so much for sharing your story! What a classic case of family togetherness! I really learned a lot from reading it, and reading all the replies.

I live in Hawaii, too, by the way!
post #84 of 167
mamasaurus...are you mayas msil?
post #85 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by lisalou View Post
Have you ever had yourself checked out to find out why your stomach is so off if you eat anything other than the limited range of food you eat? Your problems sound like something much deeper than simple pickiness.
It's not from actually eating the food - it starts as soon as I know that my usual diet is unavailable. It's definitely psychological. Trying new and unusual foods makes me really nervous, and I get an upset stomach when I'm nervous.

Quote:
Sorry I see nothing wrong with MSIL wanting to broaden the horizons of CSIL's children.
MSIL sounds to me like she's trying to undermine CSIL. This is something that I have huge issues with, due to my own background, so I may be over-reacting. While I don't like the behaviour of either of them, my sympathies tend to be with CSIL because I can put myself in her shoes more easily than MSIL's.

I have issues with how some of my relatives raise their kids, too - but I don't think I'd be doing those kids any favours to declare an open war on the way they're being parented.
post #86 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Who says? Why is being a "picky eater" considered such a bad thing? If you're fortunate enough to enjoy a wide variety of foods - good for you. Some of us aren't. Some of us also have huge comfort zone issues involved in being somewhere strange and having to eat strange food. I'm 38, and I'm still not over this. When I'm staying with my in-laws, my stomach feels slightly 'off' the entire visit - because I'm not in my home, and I'm eating strange foods. There's nothing wrong with what they serve - I've really enjoyed a few of the new foods I've tried (FIL loves that I like mustard greens, as he was the only one in the family who did before I came along). But, that doesn't change the emotional side of it for me. It's hard to eat foods I'm not used to. When dh and I were thinking of moving to Knoxville, the different stock in the grocery stores was one of my biggest concerns. This may seem trivial to other people, but it's not trivial to me - and I'd bet there are a lot of 'picky eaters' in the same boat.

Then there's this one...a friend of our family...this little girl didn't like to eat meat when she was young. Her parents, in an attempt to get her to eat a 'balanced diet', and with real parental concern, always got her to eat some. It was a running battle for years. It eventually turned out that she lacks an enzyme necessary to digest meat properly. So - 'picky eater' turned out to be a genuine 'dietary concern'.

So - why is being 'picky' not valid?

Stormbride, if you don't mind elaborating, what do you mean by the stock in the grocery stores being different? I have not been to BC, so I would not know how the stores are there. I have lived in KY, IN, TN and now FL, and the only differences I have seen here are in the fact that there is more citrus fruit and other tropical fruits readily available than in the other states I lived in.

I promise I am not picking on you. I am simply curious.
post #87 of 167
I'm not too sympathetic to the whole "Let picky eaters be" argument. When in Rome, do as the Romans, I say (and I can say that, as I DO live in Rome ). Seriously, picky eating is gastronomical snobbery. If you don't like the taste, I understand. If the food makes you physically ill (which it definitely will if you do not have the enzyme to digest it), I understand. But I think in our world, kids should be encouraged to try things as much as possible.
post #88 of 167
But wherever you stand on the "picky eater" thing--you should be able to decide or you and your children.

Not have to be at the mercy of some else's philosophy on it.

CSIL has a philosophy of not coercing or encouraging her children to try new things. I'm sure she disagrees with the way MSIL handles food for her kids. It's not one is right and one is wrong. Different approaches, different ideas.

But, there *should* be a certain amount of respect for other family member's choices on the matter.

My ILs have fought with their kids at probably every meal since the kids were born. It is painful for me to watch. The bribing, the shaming, the coercion. And no surprise to me, the kids don't eat and they sneak treats, etc. But, I would NEVER presume to tell their kids that "in my house you can have dessert first, you don't have to eat what you don't want, etc." b/c it would be directly undermining my IL's parenting. And to set up "house rules" under the guise of "making the visit run smoothly" or whatever would just be over the top.

I have to say I am really surprised that on an alternative parenting board, there isn't more support for respecting parental choices.

I'm sure people think we, at MDC, are actively harming our children for co-sleeping, nursing, homeschooling, not spanking, etc. But, it doesn't give them the right to make those choices for our kids or try to impose their ideas when they can.
post #89 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
I have to say I am really surprised that on an alternative parenting board, there isn't more support for respecting parental choices.

I'm sure people think we, at MDC, are actively harming our children for co-sleeping, nursing, homeschooling, not spanking, etc. But, it doesn't give them the right to make those choices for our kids or try to impose their ideas when they can.

Well said.

I've taken so much crap from extended family for the way I am raising my kids (long term nursing, family bed, homeschooling, and gentle discpline) that I could never, ever side with someone who feels it is their place to "fix" the way their inlaws are parenting.

I also think that for a child, food sensativities and pickiness can be a bit tricky to sort out. One of my DDs is lactose intolerate and is VERY picky. She doesn't trust new foods where things are mixed together -- even when she is told that they are dairy free. Thank god we have enough money we would never have to accept "hospitality" from someone like MSIL in order to see our extended family.
post #90 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinkerBelle View Post
Stormbride, if you don't mind elaborating, what do you mean by the stock in the grocery stores being different? I have not been to BC, so I would not know how the stores are there. I have lived in KY, IN, TN and now FL, and the only differences I have seen here are in the fact that there is more citrus fruit and other tropical fruits readily available than in the other states I lived in.

I promise I am not picking on you. I am simply curious.
Brand names are different. Some products are harder to find. One example is roasted sunflower seeds. They're my favourite snack item - I've been hooked on them since I was about five. They're in virtually every corner store, grocery store - even some gas stations - here. I think it was my third trip to Knoxville before I managed to find them at a store in the area (Fresh Market). My MIL bought us bagels last time we visited, and they didn't taste quite right to me - lots of little things like that. I just know the food won't be the same.
post #91 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
I'm not too sympathetic to the whole "Let picky eaters be" argument. When in Rome, do as the Romans, I say (and I can say that, as I DO live in Rome ). Seriously, picky eating is gastronomical snobbery. If you don't like the taste, I understand. If the food makes you physically ill (which it definitely will if you do not have the enzyme to digest it), I understand. But I think in our world, kids should be encouraged to try things as much as possible.
I was encouraged. I'm still 'picky'. (I also don't consider 'you can't feed your kids what you want to feed them and they want to eat' to be encouraging.)

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'gastronomical snobbery'. I think the gastronomical snobs are the ones who enjoy trying new foods and experimenting with different kinds of cooking and eating a huge variety of foods - so they think they have the right to demand that the rest of us mimic their approach.
post #92 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
I was encouraged. I'm still 'picky'. (I also don't consider 'you can't feed your kids what you want to feed them and they want to eat' to be encouraging.)

I have absolutely no idea what you mean by 'gastronomical snobbery'. I think the gastronomical snobs are the ones who enjoy trying new foods and experimenting with different kinds of cooking and eating a huge variety of foods - so they think they have the right to demand that the rest of us mimic their approach.

Just out of curiocity...what do you eat??? You have me all curious now
post #93 of 167
Quote:
But wherever you stand on the "picky eater" thing--you should be able to decide or you and your children.

Not have to be at the mercy of some else's philosophy on it.

CSIL has a philosophy of not coercing or encouraging her children to try new things. I'm sure she disagrees with the way MSIL handles food for her kids. It's not one is right and one is wrong. Different approaches, different ideas.
Again, from what I understand, noone was forcing CSIL's kids to eat what was on the table. I don't think that MSIL said that they MUST eat her food. As I have stated before, even if MSIL had wanted to do that, it would be impossible short of hooking the kids up to intravenous. If they don't want to try the food, they don't have to. It is a question of good manners among adults. Personally, I would be very offended if a mother who was staying at my house pulled out pb&j for her EIGHT YEAR OLD CHILD at every meal that I had prepared. Again, it's not a question of tolerating other parental choices. I do that all the time with other children at our house. It is a question of good manners.
post #94 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmlp View Post
Again, from what I understand, noone was forcing CSIL's kids to eat what was on the table. I don't think that MSIL said that they MUST eat her food. As I have stated before, even if MSIL had wanted to do that, it would be impossible short of hooking the kids up to intravenous. If they don't want to try the food, they don't have to. It is a question of good manners among adults. Personally, I would be very offended if a mother who was staying at my house pulled out pb&j for her EIGHT YEAR OLD CHILD at every meal that I had prepared. Again, it's not a question of tolerating other parental choices. I do that all the time with other children at our house. It is a question of good manners.
It's not about manners in this situation.

MSIL is doing it b/c she finds her nieces' pickiness limiting and sad and she feels that this is a good way for them to overcome that. Go back and read what Maya wrote.

And here's the thing about manners: They are supposed to be used to make people feel more comfortable. THey are social *graces.* What is gracious about FORBIDDING a house guest to have a food they like at dinner with everyone else? Especially when they were hungry from swimming and playing all day? Did you read the part where the child burst into tears? How is that good manners on the hostess' part? How is that anything other than a power struggle betw. and adult and an 8 yr. old?

Can you elaborate on why you would be offended by what a child ate while staying at your home? I really don't get it. It's not a personal rejection. It's not an indictment of your cooking skills. People like certain things. And if you know what a particular person likes, why wouldn't you just serve that?
post #95 of 167
Well, as it has come up on a few very different threads.....my ethics go before manners. Making a child (or adult for that matter) feel miserable in the name of "manners" is rude.....whether it "works" or not. Playing power struggle over food borders on "ethical dilemma" for me and I would not stand for it. I have seen too many eating disorders to play that game. Luckily I am not in this situation and probably never will be. Dd eats everything. But if I have a guest that seriously cannot stomach anything on my table, then I will be more than happy to make the peanut butter sandwich for them. Be it a 2 yo or a 70 yo. That is called being a good hostess anyway. So who is being rude here? And sorry, but 8yo is still a baby in many ways anyway. An 8 yo still has a very hard time obstaining from food for an hour (until the your-allowed-to-eat-PBJ-in-your-room-alone-hour) after playing all day AND do it graciously.

I was a VERY picky eater as a child. Despite not being forced to eat anything and *gasp* bringing my own food to many things until half-way through high school, I was able to broaden my own horizons when I was ready. I eat almost anything and eat most of the foods I could barely stand to look at when I was 8. No well-meaning-but-out-of-line aunt would have changed that. I still to this day cannot drink strange tap water. I have no idea why. But I will literally throw up on a table if I try to drink a glass of water at dinner at my ILs house. So, I bring my own. Rude? Maybe. Less rude than barf on a table I gather........
post #96 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
People like certain things. And if you know what a particular person likes, why wouldn't you just serve that?
I am not a short order cook. If there were upwards of 20 people staying at my house I would not cook to each person's specifications. You've got to be kidding.

I would cook one main meal, trying to keep it as broad and with as many choices that were reasonable. Homemade pizza with bread and various dipping sauces seems like a good choice to me.

Where MSIL (whom I'd still rather have in my house than CSIL) and I differ is, if the kids sat down and really didn't want to try anything, CSIL could knock herself out and fix them an alternative.

I don't mind catering to pickier eaters, but the rules change somewhat when I'm serving 20+ as opposed to 10 and under.
post #97 of 167
Before we get too worked up about CSIL's kids "starving" during the dinner hour, let's keep in mind that nothing was preventing CSIL from serving them PB&J before the rest of the family sat down to dinner.
post #98 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkey's mom View Post
It's not about manners in this situation.

MSIL is doing it b/c she finds her nieces' pickiness limiting and sad and she feels that this is a good way for them to overcome that. Go back and read what Maya wrote.

And here's the thing about manners: They are supposed to be used to make people feel more comfortable. THey are social *graces.* What is gracious about FORBIDDING a house guest to have a food they like at dinner with everyone else? Especially when they were hungry from swimming and playing all day? Did you read the part where the child burst into tears? How is that good manners on the hostess' part? How is that anything other than a power struggle betw. and adult and an 8 yr. old?

Can you elaborate on why you would be offended by what a child ate while staying at your home? I really don't get it. It's not a personal rejection. It's not an indictment of your cooking skills. People like certain things. And if you know what a particular person likes, why wouldn't you just serve that?
Social graces also apply to how you behave in other peoples homes. Apart from being seriously pissed at any adult who comes to my home a plops their own food on my table at dinner time it is also a matter of what CSIL is teaching her children about respecting other people and the hospitality they offer.

I can tell you from the point of a mother with a severely allergic child and two really really picky eaters that it would never occur to me to serve my own food to my children unless necessary. I find out what is being served ahead of time for my allergic child and make changes as necessary to insure that he is eating as similarily as everyone else; after that I put in front of them what is being served. Whether they eat it or not is their responsibility. But I DON'T wait until the dinner is one the table and then say, "my kids won't like this, so here (plop) they will eat this instead."

Had CSIL approached this in a different way then maybe it could be argued that the onus is on MSIL to accomadate the culinary demands of the children at all meals but CSIL did not make this about anything more than a parenting style that in her mind supercede good ediquette and politeness.
post #99 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovemyBoo View Post
I am not a short order cook. If there were upwards of 20 people staying at my house I would not cook to each person's specifications. You've got to be kidding.

I would cook one main meal, trying to keep it as broad and with as many choices that were reasonable. Homemade pizza with bread and various dipping sauces seems like a good choice to me.

Where MSIL (whom I'd still rather have in my house than CSIL) and I differ is, if the kids sat down and really didn't want to try anything, CSIL could knock herself out and fix them an alternative.

I don't mind catering to pickier eaters, but the rules change somewhat when I'm serving 20+ as opposed to 10 and under.
I'm certainly not suggesting cooking to 20 different peson's specifications.

Pizza and such sounds like a good choice to you, so that's a good choice for all? It wasn't a good choice for the niece.

No one was asking MSIL to prepare a separate meal.

CSIL was wanting to prepare and offer her children food that they liked during dinner.

Again, how does that impact others, unless it's a parenting difference that MSIL can't let go of?
post #100 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahrphkjh View Post
Had CSIL approached this in a different way then maybe it could be argued that the onus is on MSIL to accomadate the culinary demands of the children at all meals but CSIL did not make this about anything more than a parenting style that in her mind supercede good ediquette and politeness.
This isn't a dinner party with the queen. THis is a family reunion for a week.

No one is asking MSIL to "accomadate the culinary demands of the children."

Her SIL wanted to make and serve a sandwich during the mealtime to her child. That's really that big a deal to you? Why would you care what other people feed their kids? I'm not trying to be snarky, I just really don't understand where it's anybody else's business, or frankly, why it would even cross your radar screen.
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