I'm trying to convince sis

[pollyanna]

I need to convicince my sister that circumsion isn't nessary. My sister said that babies don't feel the pain after about 30 seconds and forget it.
I was at the hospital friday and could here the babies screaming in the nursary and thought that those must be the boys crying. I winced thinking about the pain they were in.

How can I convince her that babies feel the pain?

Pollyanna

[Sarah]

It is proven that babies feel pain, but I doubt that you can convince her of that if she wants to believe something so obviously in fantasy land. She will believe anything to justify her desire to cut genitals.

Pain is not the issue, because even if there was no pain in circumcision- it would still be wrong- and if you base your argument on the pain- then anesthesia would make it all OK, and you know- and I know that the violation is not simply because it hurts.

Also we all know that circumcision is not necissary- no one maintains that it is necissary- this is not a good platform to stand on either because even if you can convince her of it not being necissary, which is OBVIOUS... you still have not proven to her that it is wrong.

I suggest that she should be taught about the sexual function and value of the prepuce, and when she understands that- then the ethical implication of genital cutting will be clear to her. I doubt that she will have any interest in that though.

Here are some sources about pain- just FYI- good luck:

http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/

"Preliminary studies suggested that pain experienced by infants in the neonatal period may have long-lasting effects on future infant behaviour."


AMA:

" It is specious to hold that an infant's sensibilities are not sufficiently developed to perceive pain. "

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/article/2036-2511.html

AAP:

"There is considerable evidence that newborns who are circumcised without analgesia experience pain and physiologic stress. Neonatal physiologic responses to circumcision pain include changes in heart rate, blood pressure, oxygen saturation, and cortisol levels.36-39"

http://www.aap.org/policy/re9850.html

[Frankly Speaking]

Pain is a free ride. They know that the baby won't remember the pain so there are no consequences. They can force this amputation and ignorance and get off scott free. Well, except the permanent evidence of what they have done. How can they deny what they have done when the evidence is right there staring the boy in the eye. How will they explain that when he comes to a website similar to this one in 15 years and learns that all of the evidence was easily available to his parents 25 years earlier and they chose to ignore it to impose their concept of genital beauty on him?



Frank

[pollyanna]

Thanks for the info. My sister already has 3 boys that are circumsized. I'm TTC'ing and the subject was brought up about circumsion and I said that I wasn't planning on doing it. My family GASPED and my brothers yelled. It really hurt me that they would think that I didn't think about my future child before making my decision.
To bad I didn't know about this when my sis had her children.

Pollyanna

[Nathan1097]

There is a lot on the pain issue at http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/ In the blue menu bar, choose "The issues" and then inside that "pain".

[lise brit]

Hi,

WHy don't you ask your sister to go to the hospital and watch a circumcision? That ought to take care of it.

Lise Brit

[Xenogenesis]

Educate yourself about the pain issue (the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American Medical Association - just two examples - recognize circumcision pain in the newborn) and use a very short discussion with her to segway(?) into another possible point she might relate to. The following article might be of interest:
http://mothering.com/10-0-0/html/10-...cision85.shtml

Why should a small newborn infant be made to experience any sort of pain especially in the region of his most sensitive parts? How would she react to having the hood of her clitoris crushed then sliced off whilst she screamed? <sorry 'bout the last two sentences>