My response to a family members citing of the hiv study

[mysticmomma]

I get this earlier today in an email. We are having a boy and will not allowing genital mutilation.

"You're going to circ E, right? I mean they have studies that prove it prevents AIDS."

Me: "Really, I didn't think the study said it PREVENTS it. I've also heard a great way to prevent pregnancy would is to sew all little girls vagina's shut."

That's just horrific! Why would we do that?!

[kldliam]

Good one. It shows the stupidity of it very nicely. People who actually think MGM prevents Aids are in big trouble....

You see what's happening already because of this 'study'?!!!!?

People are already getting ready to play the game russian roulette without a condom.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Great response mysticmomma

More than one little boy is going to pay the price for that : "study" and I use the term very loosely. : : :

[frenchie]

A friend of mine basically told me that her son is protected from AIDS because he's circ'd, and that makes her sleep well at night. My comeback was "I sleep very well at night because my son is in bed right next to me. Your son is NOT protected against AIDS because he lacks a foreskin. Think about it....the majority of sexually active men in the US are cut. Yet, American men are STILL afflicted with HIV/AIDS. How's that for a comforting thought? The best protection you can give your child is solid sex education and a box of condoms"
No response from her on that comment (we were emailing back and forth). When I informed her that 20% of infants are reported to have no anesthesia during the procedure these days, she told me that since she had her son circ'd right after he was born, and she had an epidural, he was "absolutely anesthetised"...I told her that she KNEW as well as I did that her assertion was untrue. No response to that comment either. The power of denial is insane!

[MommytoB]

That is a great response.

I don't know why people think things in circumcision is there and it's not! Too bad by the time the 'goverment get their facts straight maybe some invisible condom men who had aids /hiv will be able to sue for 'medical neglience as in -circ for the wrong reason but then they may not be able to get it because all those things just state potential or reduces in 'studies' but they should write "NO Benefits to Circumcised Boys /Men .

I hate parents being misled by this !

[DocsNemesis]

Yep, I've heard it too already, here in the US. Parents saying well, now my son cant get AIDS. Literally, they think they CANT get it. Argh!
Now, if people here in the US cant grasp this concept of it possibly reducing the transfer rate-no preventing it-imagine what will happen in Africa! Not that I think anything bad about the intellegence of Africans, not at all, but they are coming from a different society, a different background, right? I think that especially for these men who are already sleeping around, they will be saying ah, see? I got circumcised, now I dont even need to worry about it! I was actually talking about this with my friend-he's from Sierra Leone-and he agreed. Many of the people in his country would hear this whole concept and what they will be getting from it is that they no longer need to worry because they WONT get AIDS. Period. Its so not right! (not to mention circing in non-sterile conditions....wonder how many men/boys will get AIDS just from that alone)

[Cujobunny]

I have some responses in my head, should anyone bring that nonsense up...

It's a good thing my intatct 2 yo isn't sexually active then isn't it.

If cutting penises really did prevent AIDS then why, in Europe, where circing is rare, do they have the lowest cases of HIV in the world?

I love the line of sewing the vagina shut to prevent pregnancy, I'm gonna save that one as well.

[frenchie]

Originally Posted by DocsNemesis

Yep, I've heard it too already, here in the US. Parents saying well, now my son cant get AIDS. Literally, they think they CANT get it. Argh!
Now, if people here in the US cant grasp this concept of it possibly reducing the transfer rate-no preventing it-imagine what will happen in Africa! Not that I think anything bad about the intellegence of Africans, not at all, but they are coming from a different society, a different background, right? I think that especially for these men who are already sleeping around, they will be saying ah, see? I got circumcised, now I dont even need to worry about it! I was actually talking about this with my friend-he's from Sierra Leone-and he agreed. Many of the people in his country would hear this whole concept and what they will be getting from it is that they no longer need to worry because they WONT get AIDS. Period. Its so not right! (not to mention circing in non-sterile conditions....wonder how many men/boys will get AIDS just from that alone)

Interestingly, the President of Uganda (where the study took place) has spoken out against the study and sited it's irresponsible suggestion. He is totally rejecting the study, and has been very vocal about it. I read an article from an Afrikan news paper (online) with many great quotes from him. Hopefully he'll be able to influence his people enough that they'll be second guessing their desire to have the procedure. I pray that he'll be able to impliment a better educational system in regards to safe sex and AIDS FACTS. He has stated his desire to do so.

[13Sandals]

Originally Posted by frenchie

Interestingly, the President of Uganda (where the study took place) has spoken out against the study and sited it's irresponsible suggestion. He is totally rejecting the study, and has been very vocal about it. I read an article from an Afrikan news paper (online) with many great quotes from him. Hopefully he'll be able to influence his people enough that they'll be second guessing their desire to have the procedure. I pray that he'll be able to impliment a better educational system in regards to safe sex and AIDS FACTS. He has stated his desire to do so.

YES! I read this too - and another leader from another part of Africa is scrutinizing how the data was collected before he decides to advise his people one way or the other. His statement is expected sometime this month. I will try to post if/when I see it...

[Paddington]

Is it Uganda that has had huge success rates with teaching abstinence and fidelity? I think it is. They are now releasing lovely articles about the cost effectiveness of circing to prevent HIV. Oh the joys : All these articles about "preventing" AIDS are really disgusting me....

But I was happy to see this one...

International Physician's Group Questions Circumcision to Prevent HIV
Sat Dec 30, 7:00 AM ET
Seattle, WA (PRWeb) December 30, 2006 -- Doctors Opposing Circumcision (DCO), the Seattle-based physician’s non-profit educational organization, announces the online publication of its statement, "The Use of Male Circumcision to Prevent HIV Infection."

The statement is a response to misleading public statements by the National Institutes of Health and others regarding male circumcision as a preventative against HIV infection.

The statement concludes:

“Calls are being heard for the circumcision of children although (assuming that male circumcision is effective at controlling female-to-male infection) this could not be helpful until the child becomes sexually active. The excision of healthy body parts from non-consenting children is a violation of human rights and medically unethical. Therefore, the true motivation of the circumcision proponents must be questioned. It may be perpetuation of neonatal circumcision, not control of HIV."

“DOC believes that more emphasis on education, behavior change—such as abstinence before marriage and fidelity after marriage, provision of condoms, treatment of other sexually transmitted diseases, treatment of genital ulcer disease, control of malaria, and provision of safe healthcare would be more likely to produce beneficial results. The ultimate answer is likely to be one or more of the vaccines now in development."

###

Doctors Opposing Circumcision
George Hill
225-383-8067

[Daisyuk]

Oh Yes, they certainly have another agenda.

UNAIDS people certainly appear to have another agenda - the perpetuation of RIC rather than prevention of HIV infections, otherwise why would they be saying this:

""These (African) countries should now prepare how to introduce circumcision on a large scale," UNAIDS executive director Peter Piot told Reuters. "The science is clear."

"The focus should be on baby boys first, then adolescent boys and adult men, said Piot, who is in New Delhi to meet Indian officials to discuss how they plan to tackle the world's largest HIV/AIDS caseload of 5.7 million people."
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/Cris...ld-C4-Crisis-4

Excuse me? BABY BOYS??? What effect is THAT going to have on the HIV infection rate anywhere? ABSOLUTELY NONE.

It makes me SO angry that American organisations are getting away with promoting this abomination under the guise of pretending to help people, when all they appear to be is tools of American commercial interests, after all, who will be providing all the instruments, and probably harvesting the cells?

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by Daisyuk

UNAIDS people certainly appear to have another agenda - the perpetuation of RIC rather than prevention of HIV infections, otherwise why would they be saying this:

""These (African) countries should now prepare how to introduce circumcision on a large scale," UNAIDS executive director Peter Piot told Reuters. "The science is clear."

"The focus should be on baby boys first, then adolescent boys and adult men, said Piot, who is in New Delhi to meet Indian officials to discuss how they plan to tackle the world's largest HIV/AIDS caseload of 5.7 million people."
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/Cris...ld-C4-Crisis-4

Excuse me? BABY BOYS??? What effect is THAT going to have on the HIV infection rate anywhere? ABSOLUTELY NONE.

It makes me SO angry that American organisations are getting away with promoting this abomination under the guise of pretending to help people, when all they appear to be is tools of American commercial interests, after all, who will be providing all the instruments, and probably harvesting the cells?

[TigerTail]

I think we need to publish & promote the efforts of Africans to refute this as much as possible- wherever somebody publishes or mentions the 'study', we should publish & mention things like the Ugandan President's message (do you have that tucked anywhere, Frenchie?) & the DOC message many times.

Maybe our motto for 2007 should be 'No more ignorance for an excuse, no more excuse for ignorance.' I don't want to hear one person quote that damned 'study' without a ringing in their ears that they'd heard it refuted already somewhere. Say it loud, & say it often.

[Benji'sMom]

If people think their circ'd sons CAN'T get HIV, then did they somehow think, all along, that it was only intact men spreading HIV around the USA for the last 30 years? Do they think that this "proves" that only intact men have HIV, and it was something we just hadn't realized up till now? It must have been the best kept secret in the US, then!! Wow, how did doctors not realize that EVERY HIV infected patient they ever saw was intact!! What a revalation!!! Duh. I wish people would think before they speak.

[Paddington]

Ahh... I was just told by a friend that the reason I didn't "understand" the AIDS study that she and her husband totally get the research for is because they have Science degrees (my sociology one doesn't cut it I guess.):

[onyxravnos]

When I told people I was this point was brought up.
My response was...
“So if you meet a guy at a bar and he is circumcised would you sleep with him without any protection?"

Everyone who I’ve asked this to has said no and then they make that 'Oooooh... I get it face'

People are dumb... if nothing else this was ONE study.... Gerrrr. Makes me mad.

[baybee]

Here's a web link for the D. O. C. Press release if anyone needs it. Baybee

International Physician's Group Questions Circumcision To Prevent HIV
02 Jan 2007

Doctors Opposing Circumcision (DCO), the Seattle-based physician's non-profit educational organization, announces the online publication of its statement, "The Use of Male Circumcision to Prevent HIV Infection."

The statement is a response to misleading public statements by the National Institutes of Health and others regarding male circumcision as a preventative against HIV infection.

The statement concludes:
Calls are being heard for the circumcision of children although (assuming that male circumcision is effective at controlling female-to-male infection) this could not be helpful until the child becomes sexually active. The excision of healthy body parts from non-consenting children is a violation of human rights and medically unethical. Therefore, the true motivation of the circumcision proponents must be questioned. It may be perpetuation of neonatal circumcision, not control of HIV."

DOC believes that more emphasis on education, behavior change - such as abstinence before marriage and fidelity after marriage, provision of condoms, treatment of other sexually transmitted diseases, treatment of genital ulcer disease, control of malaria, and provision of safe healthcare would be more likely to produce beneficial results. The ultimate answer is likely to be one or more of the vaccines now in development."

www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org

Article URL: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=59922

[PumpkinSeeds]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

If people think their circ'd sons CAN'T get HIV, then did they somehow think, all along, that it was only intact men spreading HIV around the USA for the last 30 years? Do they think that this "proves" that only intact men have HIV, and it was something we just hadn't realized up till now? It must have been the best kept secret in the US, then!! Wow, how did doctors not realize that EVERY HIV infected patient they ever saw was intact!! What a revalation!!! Duh. I wish people would think before they speak.

Big fat yeah that!

[BamaDude]

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

If people think their circ'd sons CAN'T get HIV, then did they somehow think, all along, that it was only intact men spreading HIV around the USA for the last 30 years? Do they think that this "proves" that only intact men have HIV, and it was something we just hadn't realized up till now? It must have been the best kept secret in the US, then!! Wow, how did doctors not realize that EVERY HIV infected patient they ever saw was intact!! What a revelation!!! Duh.

Exactly.
I think all the circumcised guys I've known personally who died of complications of an HIV infection would take serious issue with that stupid attitude which seems to be ever more prevalent today...oh wait, they're not around any more to call it the total B.S. that it is.

Originally Posted by Benji'sMom

I wish people would think before they speak.

...Or just stop and think at all. :