birth: it's like pooping, it's like sex...NOT rocket science - Page 6

[Romana]

OK - So add this one to the bunch...Did you all really find it "painful"?

I am sure not "all" found it painful, but for those that have said they did, they mean . . . YES. I was surprised, too, at how horrifically painful it was. I had a properly positioned, 8 lb baby. But shortly after about 30 min of transition I said "I don't want to do this anymore." As that continued, it became more and more difficult to bear. It continued for over 7 hours, with ctx about 2 min apart and lasting about 60 sec. I'm not sure, because I wasn't paying attention except while we were in the car. Nothing much changed, in pain or intensity, during those 7+hours. They were all agonizingly painful. And I relaxed, and breathed, and waited through them until I couldn't wait anymore (and then I transferred to the hospital, found out I was ready to push, and had dd 25 min later). Pushing was also horrifically painful. Agony is the word I most often use to describe the pain. In addition to that, it just felt . . . HORRIBLE. My back, belly, uterus, and pelvic floor were all in horrendous pain during each contraction.

So, yes, I really did find it "painful" from transition on forward. Before that, while there was pain with a contraction, mostly it just felt like deep penetration during sex. That part was very manageable and just fine. I would even say I liked it.

Julia
dd 9mos

[dukeswalker]

Wow...I have to totally, honeslty say how surprised I am....really! EVen with my face up - coming with her hand covering her face out baby - I still never really thought of it as painful. My induced VBAC - He** YES! That was PAIN! Felt like I was being gutted, literally. I had an epidural by 4 cm. With my last - I didn't even go to the hospital until I was about 8 cm - As long as I stayed off of my back (hands and knees or side postion for me, thank you very much) I wouldn't decribe it as painful. Granted there WAS a moment after getting to the hospital, that I looked into dh eyes and said "I can't do this!" DH and my MW looked at me and said "You ARE doing it - and you're doing great..." But still - not painful.

The stiches afterward???? PAINFUL!

[cchrissyy]

In my first birth, I thought was actually dying, and I welcomed it.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by pookel

I don't understand how anyone can feel safe while they're experiencing pain that makes them want to shoot themselves. Maybe we have different definitions of safe. In my case, I didn't CARE that I was loved or supported. I'd rather have been unloved and in less pain if I'd had a choice.

I think that before I'd given birth I would have said the same thing. Even now, thinking about it, it makes sense, shouldn't I just be able to shrug off the negativity and it would be lovely as long as it wasn't excruciatingly painful. But it wasn't like that. All I can think is that I was so emotionally vulnerable and open -- not like I am normally -- that the negativity was able to wound me in a way that the physical pain could not. All four of my births were similarly painful. But it was only the first for me -- in which I felt attacked and desperate and scared and unsupported -- that was traumatic.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by skueppers

For those of you who believe that childbirth is essentially an instinctive process for which conscious thought on the part of the mother is counter-productive:

Given that, before the advent of modern medicine, women and babies used to die in childbirth in much larger numbers than they do today, is it your contention that while the mother should avoid thinking during childbirth, it is the job of her birth attendants to do the thinking for her? For example, by identifying situations in which some assistance may be required?

Before the advent of modern medicine, there was also a "before the advent of widespread nutrition and sanitation." The death rates would have gone way down without obstetrics involving itself with the majority of births, and I believe that if we were to stop routinely managing births they would go down even farther, and complication rates would go WAY down.

So no, it's not my contention that birth in general needs somebody to think about it in order to happen optimally.

If it were possible for the mother to take drugs which would disassociate her conscious mind from awareness of her body altogether, do you think that would lead to better birth outcomes?

By "conscious mind" I assume you mean neocortex, since there are different kinds of consciousness. If those drugs had no other effects, yes, it would be lead to better birth outcomes. Absolutely.

[dflanag2]

The Painful Question...

Birth 1: Birth center attended by midwives: Contractions felt like large menstrual cramps, it was very intense and you couldn't think about much else, but quite tolerabe. Intense like riding a really good roller coaster. The pushing part was extremely hard work (I'm small and had to stretch around my 10 lb ds w/14.5 inch head but it was painless because I was just numb after awhile (I pushed for 2.5 hours) I didn/t feel Ring of Fire or when I tore or anything, in fact I had the MW put her fingers where I needed to push towards so I would have a target. There were other discomforts, like feeling like I was going to throw up (didn't want to--I was too busy trying to get the baby OUT) and being completely exhausted.

On the other hand, like dukeswalker said, the stitching afterwards was extremely painful even with local anisthetic. My muscles ached (arms, legs, back) for days afterwards. For four hours afterwards I was thinking to myself, I'm never doing THIS again... but the that oxytocin kicked in and stained all my birth recollections in a more positive light... hey, that wasn't so bad!

Second baby was a homebirth and dd beat the midwives by 5 min or so... again heavy menstrual cramps and INTENSE--I felt like I was running a marathon, working up a good sweat, hitting a good pace. Transition felt like my body was a lawnmower or motorcycle, vibrating growling shaking... for a few minutes I was thinking that I was going to run out of steam, it was so intense. Then when I realized it was time to push (hooray!) it felt great--like a really big satisfying poop, as a matter of fact! The only discomfort was the burning of Ring of Fire and dh gave me a perineal compress which felt awesome. DD was born in 3 pushes, no tearing or anything, and SHE was bigger than her brother! Her labor was 2.5 hours total.


Observation: I think one factor in the pain question is whether you are in good physical shape (along with obvious factors such as baby's position, etc.) I did Jazzercise when pregnant with both up to a couple days before she was born--low impact of course-- and I think that had a lot to do with the ease of birth and the mother's perception of pain... since pregnant women in our culture are advised to 'take it easy' and Americans are pretty sedentary in general I think that contributes to pain in childbirth along with fear, ignorance, intervention, etc. I say get out there and work up a sweat! Walk, swim, ride bikes, yoga, aerobics, the muscle tone will come in handy, as well as the cardiovascular benefits that will supply more oxygen to you and your baby.

-dflanag2

[Harmony96]

Did I find it painful? Yes, but like a PP said, it's a different kind of pain. It's a productive pain that is working towards an end, instead of a pain where your body says to you "hey you did something wrong". Before birth, the worst "female" pain I'd had was menstrual cramps, but even then I knew that labor would be different. The menstrual cramps just came and stayed. Labor pains started out with the intensity of menstrual cramps, but they came and went and came and went. I found it helpful to just keep remembering that the individual labor pains as well as labor overall would not last forever.

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by pookel

Rocket science? Maybe not. Worst pain I've ever experienced in my life? Yes. First experience I've ever had that made me wish I were dead? Yes. There's no possibility of feeling safe and secure when you're in that kind of pain. There's nothing nice or sexy about it. I had the hot tub, dim lights, CDs of my favorite soothing music, a good birth plan drawn up. When the time came, I realized that I couldn't care less about the lighting or the music or any of the rest of it. Poked and prodded? Sure, whatever. I didn't care what anyone did. Nothing mattered to me anymore. I'd have taken heroin if you'd offered it to me then. Anything to stop the pain.

Simple process, maybe, but it sure as hell isn't easy.

I am truly sorry about your experience.

: for healing

[eviesingleton]

On pooping...my friend recently had a baby and was telling me about it. This is what she said:

"What they don't tell you about is the pressure. Evie, remember when you were constipated in college and had to have an enema because you were bursting blood vessels in your face; I kept thinking of that."

It made me laugh to think she had flashbacks to MY constipation experience.

[Mizelenius]

Originally Posted by pookel

I don't mean to take away from this thread's original message, but I would like to see more support and validation in the natural birthing community for women whose labors are excruciatingly painful and difficult despite their preparation and best efforts. I get depressed when I see so many threads saying things like "labor is easy and natural!" and "it doesn't hurt that much!" because reading that kind of thing over and over left me unprepared for what I actually experienced.

Mama, my labors were easy, but I GET you 100%. How? For me, BFing, especially my 2nd DD, seemed anything but easy and natural. I had BF my 1st for over 2 years-- I was experienced. But my 2nd refused to nurse longer than a minute, suffered from no weight gain, and I had a very difficult time with it all. It was like a nightmare. 3 lactation consultants, about $1000 later (IBLC fees, supplies, etc.), and countless hours of research, she learned to nurse. That didn't exactly feel "natural and easy" to me.

Let me tell you, that experience left me with a whole new outlook about everything-- to not be so flip about so-called "natural" things. Nature does NOT work perfectly. It does in the larger sense (survival of the fittest) but that doesn't mean it works perfectly for us as individuals. As per the OP's example, some people actually DO have issues with sex and pooping. Does that make them inferior?

I think it is very, very dangerous to look at any issue in black and white terms. While many people into NP and AP are horrified when judged by the "mainstream," some of them feel it is OK to judge others. I don't get it.

Re: did I find it painful? At a certain point, yes, I wanted to die. Thankfully, that was a brief period for me, right before I had to push. I experienced gallbladder attacks that were just the same, though (so, men CAN feel what it is like to be in labor if they have them!) and I didn't have any pain medication . . .so I figured if I could do it without getting a baby at the end, it would be OK.

[poetesss]

Originally Posted by pookel
I don't mean to take away from this thread's original message, but I would like to see more support and validation in the natural birthing community for women whose labors are excruciatingly painful and difficult despite their preparation and best efforts. I get depressed when I see so many threads saying things like "labor is easy and natural!" and "it doesn't hurt that much!" because reading that kind of thing over and over left me unprepared for what I actually experienced.

During labor, I vowed to myself that I'd never think any less of a woman who chose an epidural, 'cause boy was that pain a nightmare. I even started thinking to myself "this is why women do non-medical planned c-sections!"

However, after all was said and done fortunately the pain became a blurred memory while the excitement of it all stayed. That's why I find myself glossing over the pain when discussing my birth with others. My dh had to correct me one time when I was telling my sister about it and I said, "Yeah, it wasn't that bad..." It was like I had forgot that part of it and only remembered the positives. It makes me wonder if many of those "it doesn't hurt that much" posts are actually of the same nature.

[dukeswalker]

Originally Posted by poetesss

It makes me wonder if many of those "it doesn't hurt that much" posts are actually of the same nature.

nak

For me? No way - I remeber my induced VBAC - hurt more than anything I had ever experienced....My natural 2nd VBAC was nothing like that.

[Brisen]

Originally Posted by velveeta

I agree, but I think that different "signposts" would be more helpful. For example, when DS was born, my mother was attending me. She didn't do cervical checks, but because she understood how birth works, she said things that made me know I was "progressing" like, "Baby can only come out further now -- there is only one way out!" "Baby is almost here!" I would say, "I can't do it." She would say, "But, you *are* doing it." I am sure that I felt reassured and perfect (in the process) because she is my mother and I trust her completely.

I just want to say how sweet this sounds.

Originally Posted by dukeswalker

OK - So add this one to the bunch...Did you all really find it "painful"?

I have found my births painful, but not so painful that I was going out of my mind, iykwim. As long as I could move around, it was manageable. I labour at night, and it gets difficult near the end when I am more tired and need more to move around to help with the pain. But I've had headaches that were more painful than labour, and I don't even get migraines. But the problem is that there isn't much that I can do to help those headaches, save for big doses of tylenol and going to sleep. Pacing, squatting, hot showers, etc. don't really help.

I think us natural, birth-doesn't-have-to-be-so-painful types come on strong because we hear *all the time* IRL how painful birth *always* is, no exceptions. I think it's easy to forget that there are also exceptions to the idea that, if you have a better birth environment, the pain will be more likely to be manageable.

[wasabi]

Originally Posted by dflanag2

Observation: I think one factor in the pain question is whether you are in good physical shape (along with obvious factors such as baby's position, etc.) I did Jazzercise when pregnant with both up to a couple days before she was born--low impact of course-- and I think that had a lot to do with the ease of birth and the mother's perception of pain... since pregnant women in our culture are advised to 'take it easy' and Americans are pretty sedentary in general I think that contributes to pain in childbirth along with fear, ignorance, intervention, etc. I say get out there and work up a sweat! Walk, swim, ride bikes, yoga, aerobics, the muscle tone will come in handy, as well as the cardiovascular benefits that will supply more oxygen to you and your baby.

-dflanag2

Yep I really disagree. I was in fabulous shape with my first two and i still had pain during labor.

For the pain questions absolutely I had pain. Was it because both were posterior? Quite possibly so but it was painful and I was at home and relaxing and breathing and thinking that I could do it and not being hampered by anyone else's perceptions and it was painful. And pushing wow the pushing was waaaay worse than I expected because everyone else talked about how good pushing felt. I did not feel that way. It felt bad and painful and burning. Now what felt totally totally awesome was the feeling when their bodies slipped out of me. Wow what incredible fantastic relief and the huge burst of endorphins and the high of knowing I did it yeah that was all great but I was ready, I was prepared, I trusted my body and it still hurt like hell and I absolutely would do it again. It was pain but it was worthwhile pain. It was bearable pain.

I don't really agree with the entire it's not rocket science, it's like sex or pooping. It's just not like that for me. Birth is a big thing. Sex and pooping are not. Sex feels good and for me birthing does not (until afterwards) and it is not something that needs to be private in the sense of only me or only DH. And pooping yeah just not at all the same. It may not be rocket science but I just can't agree that it's this wonderful orgasmic experience if you just open yourself up the right way so I have to say that I do agree with PPs who objected that it can make it seem that the implication is that those of us who gave birth without meds or interventions but did feel pain somehow did something wrong. It's like where does it end? If I didn't do it in a hut on a plain by myself then it's painful but if I would just do it there somehow it wouldn't be? I just doubt that somehow.

[dukeswalker]

What I find really interestying is that, in general, most other cultures do not describe child birth as painful....