When someone regrets circ... - Page 2

[stacyann21]

I understand that doctors give misinformation and so on & so forth, but it annoys me that many times, parents spend more time researching what sort of stroller to buy than they do researching a surgery that removes part of their newborn's penis.

[kldliam]

Deadhead: As far as I'm concerned, those who circumcised their sons and regret it are our loudest and strongest voice.

Paddington: But a parent who has regrets can make an awesome advocate if they educate themselves. And they can teach their sons and maybe we can end the cycle....

Cassandra: And I would give them kudos for seeing their wrong, and changing it for future sons, and also speaking their new knowledge to other parents, helping to educate people.

Yes. Yes. Yes!

Dear OP:

I understnad exactly how you feel. I too can't erase my anger when initially speaking to these moms, but I sit on it and keep it to myself. I try so hard to throw them a word or two of support for this one reason alone:

I want them to become an Intactivist.

Regretful Moms make the best Intactivists! They also deserve a chance to redeem themselves through doing some good for other children, don't you think? If I am kind and not alienating towards them, that may help them to get on the road we are on and to help others avoid the same mistakes. That is a good thing and we need them.

I also think of Marilyn Milos (www.nocirc.org). A mom who chose to circ but helped to start this whole GI movement...she has done far more good at this point than harm! She has helped to save thousands of children from this awful fate. I hold her in the highest esteem and she is a regretful mom herself!

[WonderWild]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but in response to the OP:

Non-consentual, non-medically indicated genital cutting hurts everyone it touches. It causes mothers to set aside their fierce protective instincts, and often also causes intense grief and heartache. It often causes otherwise loving and intelligent fathers to insist their son's 'match'. It eats away at the consciences of medical professionals. It irreversibly damages the primary sex organ of over half of male, American babies.

I told a story in another thread about how I inadvertantly left a spice jar of cayenne pepper out on the counter one night after cooking dinner and didn't realize it until the next day when my son's screams caused my body to shudder. He's found the cayenne pepper, opened it, and poured it into a pile on the kitchen floor and then played with/in it, and you guessed it-rubbed his eyes. I rushed him to the bathroom and rinsed him with water, I was so panicked, I rinsed his entire head and his look of terror from having water sprayed over his head and face as he held his breath still haunts me. I worried I'd damaged him for ever...worried he'd be blind...called the ped, whose nurse was reassuring. He didn't require a trip to the ER, but he was traumatized by the experience and was fearful of even having his hair washed for many months.

Fortunately, he's okay now. I don't think he consciously remembers it. His vision isn't effected, and he's back to loving his baths and usually lets me wash his hair without freaking out. I know what happened was my fault. I acknowledge I was careless, even neglectful to have let him stray from my sight although it only took a moment. I still get a knot in the pit of my stomach thinking about it though.

How much worse would I feel if permanent harm-true damage-had come to him? Thankfully, most of us can't fathom that kind of guilt...but we can try to understand it and be sensitive to it.

Certainly, the boy is the one who suffered direct physical pain and loss and he deserves our sadness and compassion but there are moments and intensities of remorse, guilt, and grief that can make parents literally sick with heartache. I think they deserve our compassion too. What they didn't know did hurt their child, and there is no way to turn back time, no way to take it back or reverse it.

The circumcision issue issue is wrought with cultural misperceptions, myths, and misinformation. Parents rely on care providers to be honest with them and to provide them with unbiased, balanced, and truthful information. Sure, they could have (and should have) researched the topic independently and more thoroughly...but circumcision is just so d-mn culturally engrained, still so automatic and assumed: "It's more hygienic. Dad's circed, baby should be too. Better now than later."

Those of us who learned about circumcision before the birth of our son(s) often take our fortune for granted; most parents know disturbingly little about the anatomy & physiology of the foreskin, the mechanics of normal intercourse, the circumcision procedure, it's risks, and it's long-term effects. Think back to how you stumbled across the truth. Were you shocked? Horrified? Outraged? Those reactions only result from learning something profoundly disturbing...a surprising, terrible, widespread secret.

Those of us who learned the truth in time to protect our sons are so, so, so lucky...because it easily could have been one of us who trusted our care provider and circumcised based on inadaquate or inaccurate information or ignorantly succumed to pressures from other directions.

When I read the words of a regretful mother who's hurting, that's what I think: It could have been me. It could have happened to my son. When I think of it that way, I feel sadness rather than judgment and compassion rather than anger---for everyone, all the way around.

The entire situation is tragic.

"You do what you know, and when you know better, you do better."
-Maya Angelou

Parents who circumcised and later learn the truth and process the guilt and grief make some of the most experienced, passionate, and effective intactivists.

Jen

Thank you so much.

[vermontgirl]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but in response to the OP:

Non-consentual, non-medically indicated genital cutting hurts everyone it touches. It causes mothers to set aside their fierce protective instincts, and often also causes intense grief and heartache. It often causes otherwise loving and intelligent fathers to insist their son's 'match'. It eats away at the consciences of medical professionals. It irreversibly damages the primary sex organ of over half of male, American babies.

I told a story in another thread about how I inadvertantly left a spice jar of cayenne pepper out on the counter one night after cooking dinner and didn't realize it until the next day when my son's screams caused my body to shudder. He's found the cayenne pepper, opened it, and poured it into a pile on the kitchen floor and then played with/in it, and you guessed it-rubbed his eyes. I rushed him to the bathroom and rinsed him with water, I was so panicked, I rinsed his entire head and his look of terror from having water sprayed over his head and face as he held his breath still haunts me. I worried I'd damaged him for ever...worried he'd be blind...called the ped, whose nurse was reassuring. He didn't require a trip to the ER, but he was traumatized by the experience and was fearful of even having his hair washed for many months.

Fortunately, he's okay now. I don't think he consciously remembers it. His vision isn't effected, and he's back to loving his baths and usually lets me wash his hair without freaking out. I know what happened was my fault. I acknowledge I was careless, even neglectful to have let him stray from my sight although it only took a moment. I still get a knot in the pit of my stomach thinking about it though.

How much worse would I feel if permanent harm-true damage-had come to him? Thankfully, most of us can't fathom that kind of guilt...but we can try to understand it and be sensitive to it.

Certainly, the boy is the one who suffered direct physical pain and loss and he deserves our sadness and compassion but there are moments and intensities of remorse, guilt, and grief that can make parents literally sick with heartache. I think they deserve our compassion too. What they didn't know did hurt their child, and there is no way to turn back time, no way to take it back or reverse it.

The circumcision issue issue is wrought with cultural misperceptions, myths, and misinformation. Parents rely on care providers to be honest with them and to provide them with unbiased, balanced, and truthful information. Sure, they could have (and should have) researched the topic independently and more thoroughly...but circumcision is just so d-mn culturally engrained, still so automatic and assumed: "It's more hygienic. Dad's circed, baby should be too. Better now than later."

Those of us who learned about circumcision before the birth of our son(s) often take our fortune for granted; most parents know disturbingly little about the anatomy & physiology of the foreskin, the mechanics of normal intercourse, the circumcision procedure, it's risks, and it's long-term effects. Think back to how you stumbled across the truth. Were you shocked? Horrified? Outraged? Those reactions only result from learning something profoundly disturbing...a surprising, terrible, widespread secret.

Those of us who learned the truth in time to protect our sons are so, so, so lucky...because it easily could have been one of us who trusted our care provider and circumcised based on inadaquate or inaccurate information or ignorantly succumed to pressures from other directions.

When I read the words of a regretful mother who's hurting, that's what I think: It could have been me. It could have happened to my son. When I think of it that way, I feel sadness rather than judgment and compassion rather than anger---for everyone, all the way around.

The entire situation is tragic.

"You do what you know, and when you know better, you do better."
-Maya Angelou

Parents who circumcised and later learn the truth and process the guilt and grief make some of the most experienced, passionate, and effective intactivists.

Jen

Wow. That is a wonderful post. Thank you so much for your beautiful words.

[pdx.mothernurture]

Originally Posted by vermontgirl

Wow. That is a wonderful post. Thank you so much for your beautiful words.

You're very welcome.

Want to know a little secret? Back when this issue was new to me I became a regular on another circumcision discussion board. At the time, I disliked circumcision but was not pregnant and had no biological children. I worked in a hospital birth center where one of my job duties was assisting with newborn circumcisions. It was my job to set up the room, lay out the circumstraint and instruments, sterile gloves, medicine cup, sucrose, syringe, lidocaine, etc. I paged the doctor, gathered the consent form, and retrieved the baby. I was often the one to unwrap him and strap him down. I was so terribly conflicted. I came from the typical American perspective of believing that it was just a piece of skin and that, "If it was so terrible, doctors wouldn't do it!"

Boy, was I ever wrong.

It was Frank (Frankly_Speaking) who lit the fire under my feet and challenged my misperceptions. He and another now-dear-friend, Ron, provided me with tons of information, links, and resources. I began really researching and what I learned broke my heart. By the end of my time at the birth center I'd begun speaking out about circumcision to some of the nursing assistants and nurses, and had begun refusing to assist as a 'conscientious objector'. I'd also begun to debate circumcision online with others-mostly parents-from an intactivist perspective...and I know I went in with guns ablazing and I'm sure I was pretty brutal.

I was angry. I was horrified. I was disgusted. I was outraged! I wanted to tell the world, inform the public, shout the truth from the rooftops until parents knew better and I was completely unprepared for the defensiveness and venom circumcision-minded parents shot back at me. They felt attacked, so they retaliated; it was a defense mechanism.

I think the biggest epiphany-major, "uh huh!" moment-came when I stumbled across the Stages of Grief...

Shock stage: Initial paralysis at hearing the bad news.
Denial stage: Trying to avoid the inevitable.
Anger stage: Frustrated outpouring of bottled-up emotion.
Bargaining stage: Seeking in vain for a way out.
Depression stage: Final realization of the inevitable.
Testing stage: Seeking realistic solutions.
Acceptance stage: Finally finding the way forward.

Suddenly, I saw all of the emotions being expressed by circumcising parents who had been presented with literally overwhelming information about what they'd robbed their children of for exactly what it was: GRIEF.

It's probably important to note that it isn't always wise to play the armchair psychologist in these dealings and announce to parents that they're just grieving, that's why they're so angry and defensive; they tend to perceive that as condescending and patronizing, which only results in more anger and defensiveness. It is helpful though, from an intactivist perspective to know that these aren't generally arrogant, heartless parents no matter how hard the struggle against the truth your sharing. Knowing they're grieving increases our understanding, patience, and compassion. It helps us keep kind and calm even in the face of those who wish to 'shoot the messanger'.

Anyway, I've shared all this because we all journey through these feelings-even as intactivists-at different pace and in our own time. It's okay to be angry! It really, really is. Circumcision is a terrible thing, an awful, damaging practice that permanently harms vulnerable, unconsenting, defenseless children. It's that horror, outrage, love of babies and the men they become and desire to protect them that fuels our passion and revitalizes our efforts. It's not just okay-but essential-that we stay in touch with that and tap into it from time to time.

The challenge is to do our best to not alienate those who are truly ignorant or who are processing grief. We're planting seeds, even when we don't see the fruits and may never reap the harvest.

Jen

[Mommiska]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I feel huge amounts of compassion and respect for parents who have made a mistake and have admitted it. I can't imagine living with that kind of knowledge.

I think it's worth remembering here that Marilyn Milos has 3 circed sons.

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by Cassandra M.

The people who ARE educated and HAVE seen circ done before, who still advocate for it are the ones I can't understand. I can't wrap my mind around the idea of doctors who KNOW this isn't a necessary procedure, and watch the newborns in pain going through it, who still perform it for the sake of $.

Originally Posted by Quirky

The mothers who get the truth on circ but do it anyway, like my SIL? Screw 'em, they don't get my compassion (or my forgiveness). But mamas like those who posted in the sticky, or my friends, whom I KNOW are wonderful, loving mamas who would do anything in their power to go back and undo their sons' circ? I can support them. Yes, it's their sons who suffered, but they suffer too.

I think because I don't know anyone who regrets it IRL. They just say how they think it looks better or whatever and plug their ears and go la la la when you tell them about people who have restored or try to get them to do some research... It is almost harder for the woman to hear that there is a dysfunction than it is for the men in some ways. Especially mothers who then have to accept that they did allow that to happen to their child.

[Paddington]

Jen~ beautiful post. Thanks so much for sharing.

And I miss Frank....

[cam&kat's_mom]

I haven' tread the whole thread so excuse me if this is redundant.
I am a mother that had their oldest circed wihtout a thought to it, mainly cause i just figured that is what was done. I regret it now and once i learned better I did better. DS #2 is intact and I will advocate strongly for my grandchildren to be that way as well. NO ONE in our area discusses circ,It's just done. It really isn't even mentioned and you have to specifically say I don't want this done. (at least 4 years ago you did) now they ask. had anyoen told em that it wasn't necessary. I wouldn't have done it. I didn't knwo Mothering existed at that point. I had no idea no-circ existed etc. Honestly I was a different person until i had my child. And brought him home. The dr did ask us wether we wnated him done with the plastibel or cut and we said if it has to be done don't cut him. We never evne thought o task if it was necesary at all. We thougth we were doing the lesser of 2 evils. I can't and won't say he didn't cry or anythign like that.. I dont' know if he cried but he wasn't crying when he returned. ANd as I look back I hate myself.. casue I was SO careful that he never left our sight in the hospital not for a bath for picture s or testing or anything. But I let him go alone with my OB to have the circ done. I cannot beleive that I let him go as I look back cause I was SO cautious that he would be stolen or something. It wasn't until I was pregnant with DD that I even knew not circing was an option. (a friend in another town left her son intact) Until I came to this message board I never knew about no circ. It wasnt' printed in the mainstream crap I read.. until recently. (I no lonmger buy the magazines but if they arive i thumb through) Dh never even knew you could not circ. He'd never seen an intact guy EVER and when I ofund out our 3rd was a boy it ripped my heart apart to thin kthat I woudl have to fight it out since i had learned all the terrible things about circ. But i just told Dh "I dont' think we're going ot circ the baby" and he was liek "WHY??" and then as he learned he started to notice the no circ stuff in places.. anad spread the word.
Sorry for the long post that got off topic.. BUT

I can see where some are coming from in one sense but from being on the other side of the fence at one point and not knowing (never thinking it was a good thing, jus tsomethign that was done) it doesn't help anyone to not express compassion and understanding. Had I never found those that say circ is wrong but still offerd a hug and taught me to figth for little boys I wouldnt' have keep reading and learnign adn DS #2 may have ended up liek #1. By pushing those that circed their first and are upset by it away. It may actually turn them to continue cuircing rather than stopping. Since they already feel less than those that never circed. I know I do. That is why I cannot put the no circ smilie in my siggy cause I feel liek I don't belong displaying that when I have done that.... cause those that do display it tend to be very harsh on those that have circed even if it's only one child and they really never knew the truth about it. ( I've heard snarky remarks form people IRL when i say circing isnt' a good thing. since I did it once)
But remember compassion goes a long way adn can change the minds and hearts of some. Also I'm truly sorry that we all weren't born perfect and didn't make perfect choices for our children. And didn't knwo that there were soem things that shoud have been researched more... pregnancy manuals don't tell you to research circumcision or vaccines or anything else like that. And those that lived in mainstream USA and read while pregnant most likely werent' told to look outside the hospital walls or outside the box. This is getting way rambly .. so I'll stop.

[TypingMarie]

When someone posts about their regret over circumcising their son, I think they're incredibly brave. MDC can be a tough crowd, and it takes a lot of guts to lay yourself bare like that and open yourself up to the criticism that will follow.

I was a fence sitter on the issue from the moment I found out I was having a boy. My instincts told me it was wrong, but I was pressured by my family to do it. I was regaled with stories of infection, discomfort and "stink". I was made to feel like I would be depriving my son of something if we didn't circumcise him.

I lurked in the CAC forum for months, and to be honest the extremism of some posts really got to me. Even though I felt that circumcision was wrong and frankly, ridiculous, the tone and content of some posts made me worry that we'd be marginalizing our son if we left him intact.

In the end, reading the sticky thread about "regrets" made me finalize my decision and never second-guess it again. Those heartfelt messages of regret did a lot more to influence me than self-righteous statments and shaming ever could.

Every day when I change my son's diaper I'm so glad I didn't make the mistake of circumcising, and I thank the mothers who were open about their regret for helping me to make the right decision.

[Stevie]

Originally Posted by liseux

I feel sympathy for the moms because my own mom was like that. She circed my brother in 1976 and never questioned it, but then he was brought back to her screaming in a way no newborn should scream. He cried at every diaper change and she knew she would never put another baby through that.

She is a proud intactivist now, she left my second brother alone in 1983 and worked hard to protect him from being retracted. My second brother is an intactivist too, he calls it "our cause" and will talk to anyone about growing up intact. I feel for my mom, she regrets having my 1st bro circed so much. She didn`t even care if there were any "benefits" to circing, she knew in the 80`s that most of the world was intact & my dad agreed, saying
"circumcision defies all logic."

I could have been your mom. My ODS was born in 1976 and I never questioned circumcision because I had all of one (out of 4) brother who was left intact but then brutalized at every diaper change with retraction and cleaning as per the doctor's instructions. So all I knew was that intact=infections and constant screaming :

My DS never missed a beat after his mutilation as far as I remember.... I also did not have htis awesome internet thing. All I had was a parent and doctors no Dr Sears, just Dr Spock...

But just because I didn't have a "traumatic" experience did not prevent me from researching when YDS was expected 3 years ago.
I also didn't research strollers for ODS :

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by VernaBloom

I lurked in the CAC forum for months, and to be honest the extremism of some posts really got to me. Even though I felt that circumcision was wrong and frankly, ridiculous, the tone and content of some posts made me worry that we'd be marginalizing our son if we left him intact.

Truly I try to be as kind as possible but it is very hard on this side too! You are trying to help someone and they shut you down, making it seem like you are the crazy one. And no one talks about it! Why don't the churches really come out against it? Why is it that we can promote circing but when it comes to anti-circ, you have to tread very lightly and try not to offend. For some, this forum is that place to vent, I think kind of like the Vax area... It is the place that we can go where we can just let out all of the frustration and anger from beating our heads against the wall and losing so many kids. Where we thought we could have a rationale conversation and logically explain something, it failed. Because the decision is usually not made logically. It is made without thought and then all of the information in the news is about how wonderful it is to fight AIDS and your IRL friends come back and say "see? my kids not gonna get AIDS now?" And you feel as if you aren't making any progress and you haven't saved anyone else and you come here to cry and gain comfort so you can go back out there with your game face on..... Anywho, so yeah, I guess someone seeing it for the first time, who is looking for answers would get a little freaked, but those who have come seeking information, I think this forum has always tried to provide what is needed to truly help. *And here I was going to insert a smilie cause they always make post seem calmer... and I can't find one that fits. *

[number572]

Everyone has made decisions in life that they regret... especially one that harms their children. I think it takes guts to admit fault. A parent who can share their remorse in trying to disuade others from making the same bad decision as they have, is honorable in my book. I do have sympathry for their situation. My heart goes out to them.


this is a nice quote ~
“I don't know if I continue, even today, always liking myself. But what I learned to do many years ago was to forgive myself. It is very important for every human being to forgive herself or himself because if you live, you will make mistakes - it is inevitable. But once you do and you see the mistake, then you forgive yourself and say, 'well, if I'd known better I'd have done better,' that's all. So you say to people who you think you may have injured, 'I'm sorry,' and then you say to yourself, 'I'm sorry.' If we all hold on to the mistake, we can't see our own glory in the mirror because we have the mistake between our faces and the mirror; we can't see what we're capable of being. You can ask forgiveness of others, but in the end the real forgiveness is in one's own self. I think that young men and women are so caught by the way they see themselves. Now mind you, when a larger society sees them as unattractive, as threats, as too black or too white or too poor or too fat or too thin or too sexual or too asexual, that's rough. But you can overcome that. The real difficulty is to overcome how you think about yourself. If we don't have that, we never grow, we never learn, and sure as hell we should never teach.” - Maya Angelou


& I have sympathy for the boys... hopefully they'll be forgiving & able to understand that their parents are regretful & didn't know any better at the time. Perhaps their parents would offer to help them get reconstructive surgery as well, if the boys wanted.

& if you already know better, be greatful for that.

[ndunn]

Originally Posted by pdx.mothernurture

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but in response to the OP:

Non-consentual, non-medically indicated genital cutting hurts everyone it touches. It causes mothers to set aside their fierce protective instincts, and often also causes intense grief and heartache. It often causes otherwise loving and intelligent fathers to insist their son's 'match'. It eats away at the consciences of medical professionals. It irreversibly damages the primary sex organ of over half of male, American babies.

I told a story in another thread about how I inadvertantly left a spice jar of cayenne pepper out on the counter one night after cooking dinner and didn't realize it until the next day when my son's screams caused my body to shudder. He's found the cayenne pepper, opened it, and poured it into a pile on the kitchen floor and then played with/in it, and you guessed it-rubbed his eyes. I rushed him to the bathroom and rinsed him with water, I was so panicked, I rinsed his entire head and his look of terror from having water sprayed over his head and face as he held his breath still haunts me. I worried I'd damaged him for ever...worried he'd be blind...called the ped, whose nurse was reassuring. He didn't require a trip to the ER, but he was traumatized by the experience and was fearful of even having his hair washed for many months.

Fortunately, he's okay now. I don't think he consciously remembers it. His vision isn't effected, and he's back to loving his baths and usually lets me wash his hair without freaking out. I know what happened was my fault. I acknowledge I was careless, even neglectful to have let him stray from my sight although it only took a moment. I still get a knot in the pit of my stomach thinking about it though.

How much worse would I feel if permanent harm-true damage-had come to him? Thankfully, most of us can't fathom that kind of guilt...but we can try to understand it and be sensitive to it.

Certainly, the boy is the one who suffered direct physical pain and loss and he deserves our sadness and compassion but there are moments and intensities of remorse, guilt, and grief that can make parents literally sick with heartache. I think they deserve our compassion too. What they didn't know did hurt their child, and there is no way to turn back time, no way to take it back or reverse it.

The circumcision issue issue is wrought with cultural misperceptions, myths, and misinformation. Parents rely on care providers to be honest with them and to provide them with unbiased, balanced, and truthful information. Sure, they could have (and should have) researched the topic independently and more thoroughly...but circumcision is just so d-mn culturally engrained, still so automatic and assumed: "It's more hygienic. Dad's circed, baby should be too. Better now than later."

Those of us who learned about circumcision before the birth of our son(s) often take our fortune for granted; most parents know disturbingly little about the anatomy & physiology of the foreskin, the mechanics of normal intercourse, the circumcision procedure, it's risks, and it's long-term effects. Think back to how you stumbled across the truth. Were you shocked? Horrified? Outraged? Those reactions only result from learning something profoundly disturbing...a surprising, terrible, widespread secret.

Those of us who learned the truth in time to protect our sons are so, so, so lucky...because it easily could have been one of us who trusted our care provider and circumcised based on inadaquate or inaccurate information or ignorantly succumed to pressures from other directions.

When I read the words of a regretful mother who's hurting, that's what I think: It could have been me. It could have happened to my son. When I think of it that way, I feel sadness rather than judgment and compassion rather than anger---for everyone, all the way around.

The entire situation is tragic.

"You do what you know, and when you know better, you do better."
-Maya Angelou

Parents who circumcised and later learn the truth and process the guilt and grief make some of the most experienced, passionate, and effective intactivists.

Jen

So well said Jen.


It depends for me whether the parent knew what they were doing or they didn't. If they knew the risks, and all the research and still did it? I feel crappy inside but if they feel guilty I can't help but feel bad for them and try and give them support. If they are proud of their decision, which yes I have seen some mothers say, then it makes me SO angry.

[Yulia_R]

I just can't understand how people can have no idea about circ being optional when they are being asked in the hospital if they want to circ?
I do feel horrible for some awesome AP moms who circ'd without doing research and just trusted their doctors...I can only imagine what they are going through and what a horrible pain will stay with them for the rest of their life...

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by Yulia_R

I just can't understand how people can have no idea about circ being optional when they are being asked in the hospital if they want to circ?

I think it's like when I go to Carl's Jr and order the number 3 and they say do you want that medium or large and I go medium. And then get this huge fry and didn't realize I actually meant small but they never actually told me that option.... : Sorry, that popped in there and needed to be said.

[pdx.mothernurture]

I also think consent forms for all sorts of things are thrust on women in the hospital, either during labor or afterwards, when they're exausted, hormonal, recovering from blood loss and in many cases have pain medications in their systems. Circumcision may not even be presented as an option in some cases, more like, "Sign here for the circumcision." or, "The circumcision will be done tomorrow morning." Automatic. Assumed. Expected. Completely routine.

Jen

[Houdini]

I was never asked if I wanted to have the circumcisions done. The nurses just let me know when it would occur.

[Paddington]

Originally Posted by Houdini

I was never asked if I wanted to have the circumcisions done. The nurses just let me know when it would occur.

I think pretty much that's how it happens in many cases. The mom is told what they are doing next, not asked if they want it done. I know I am starting to have issues with my ped because I am asking for something that goes against the norm and she doesn't know how to respond to me, or doesn't want to cause then I will continue to buck the system....

[BlueStateMama]

I've honestly never seen ANY parent on here asking for sympathy for their circ guilt. I circ'd my son, but because of what I've learned here on MDC, I would never circ any future child, and have advocated passionately to anyone who would listen NOT to circ. I wasn't some half-assed parent who lovingly researched strollers but made an educated decision to alter my son's genitals. Sadly, all of of my friends and family were circ'ers. The only online community I came across was a large, mainstream one where circ was presented as a routine event. Sure, a few people popped in to our DDC and told us if we circ'd, that we were barbarians, butchers, tortured our children, etc. and they seemed hostile and never presented too many facts. Plus those threads got shut down before any real information was presented. My OB, peds (we preinterviewed 3) all treated it as a routine event, not a big decision to be made.

Thankfully, I found MDC...unfortunately too late for my son's gential integrity. I feel terribly every time I bathe him. I blame no one but myself for not finding out the truth before hand. But I ask for no one's sympathy for anyone other than my son. I'm grateful that I *did* come across MDC when he was young, learned about babywearing, extended nursing, no CIO, gentle discipline, etc and was able to integrate those concepts in my life. I've learned so much here.

This is where I think that vast majority of mothers who *did* circ and are on MDC are coming from. We're learning, trying to do better, trying to advocate. We have the weight of our own guilt to deal with, but aren't looking for anyone here to absolve us.

I think contempt should be saved for those who are exposed to or manage to find the information about RIC that honestly isn't presented in the mainstream, and then still decide to circ. What I've found in most circles simply wasn't the truth.