Danger discipline, GD, and scolding

[nuggetsmom]

Is scolding GD? Is there a GD way to scold? DId I handle this badly?

Well, I dont' know if I handle my "danger discipline" very well. What I mean is to express the sense that something , like runnign in the street is dangerous. Yesterday DD grabbed a screwdriver while I was trying to fix something in her room. She kept trying to grab it and I slid it way back on this chair, but she snuck around an quickly grabbed it and started to run with it. Well, it was clear that she thought it was all fun and games. When I caught up with her, I took the screwdriver from her and scolded her. Somewhere my neurons manages to conjure up "I-messages". I asked you not to grab the screwdriver. Mommy was very scared to see you run with it. It is not a toy. I was very worried that you would trip and hurt yourself (she was wearing slippers and she does trip in them so this was not a random crazy mother fear either) blah blah blah.
Well, at least I used the I messages, but DD started to cry and was upset that I was so upset and then we did lots of hugs and kisses and I love you's and blah blah blah. But I felt so bad for upsetting her. I imagine that she heard the fear in my voice because I rarely scold her and if I do it is much less adament. More like "mommy doesn't like when you hit/climb on the table/throw food..." ( I guess it is more of an admonishment)
NOt for very long, The whole thing including hugs etc did not last a minute I imagine. It just felt like it

The reason I am asking is because I reacted from my brain stem and if I want to change it I have to work at it.

[LaLaLuna]

Well, I freely admit that I have a long way to go where GD is concerned, but I do think that in the cases where children are putting themselves in potential danger you need to get their attention in any way you can. I think you did great by explaining as you went why you were so worried and the possible consequences of her actions. You didn't mention how old she is. Sounds like a young one, though. When my kids were littler I did the same thing, or just limited it to a sort of shocked gasp; this I used rarely but for the important things (like running toward the street) and it worked great to stop them in their tracks. Then I could start in with the "We don't run in streets! It's dangerous! We could get hurt!" etc, etc, big eyes, faster, louder speaking, heightened sense of drama, etc. Yes it sometimes scared them but I'd rather they spend a little time scared than a little time in the ICU with a head injury or electrical shock.

[Alexander]

I've been meaning to replying to this for some time

Originally posted by LaLaLuna
, big eyes, faster, louder speaking, heightened sense of drama, etc. Yes it sometimes scared them ....

Brilliant. This is exactly right.

Scolding is not GD.

I have serious doubts whether it works at all. Usually it just goes in one ear and out the other. Children (people) are the most receptive when they are relaxed. If they feel berated, they are unlikley to connect to the situation in the manner you intend.

a

[untomySelf]

If they feel berated, they are unlikley to connect to the situation in the manner you intend.

right on yes and their energy gets used creating defenses to shield against the oncoming barrage .

[Alexander]

Thanks untomySelf

That's the bit I wanted to say but it didn't fall off my fingers for some reason.


a

[nuggetsmom]

So then what do you do in the moment? How do you teach that it is dangerous to run with screwdrivers (when one is unsteady on ones feet) or to run in the street or to do any of the million things kids can get into. It is just unrealistic to imagine that I can childproof 100%. And at times she does things that scare me. In fact yesterday she ran after a horse and she runs after strange dogs all the time. I can't keep her inside all the time. I am generally on the alert for the dog chase, but I just didn't imagine she would run up to a horse KWIM. They are big!

[MelKnee]

No you can't childproof 100%.

In the horse situation, you wrote that you never imagined your dd would run at a horse, but I see it as my job to imagine those things. I also might imagine that the horse would run at us. Or that my ds would trip and fall into a huge pile of manure. What ever. I've got to anticipate those things. That's why ds is in my arms or I have a firm hold of his wrist when we are in potentially dangerous situations. And strange animals are always a potentially dangerous situation.

Maybe I'm nuerotic, but I am always running worst case senarios through my head. For instance, coming out of the grocery store yesterday, I was pushing the cart to the car and ds was in the seat. I imagined a car backing up suddenly and knocking the cart w/ds over. This image made me be more aware of the cars and traffic.

And about the screw driver, I would just do my best to make sure ds never got one when I couldn't supervise him. Nothing I'm doing with the screw driver is more important then keeping my ds safe.

[becoming]

I think the screwdriver situation could have been easily avoided by not using dangerous tools when your child is in the vicinity. I know this can be hard when something needs to be done, and you may not have anyone to help you out with your child, but things that involve tools that would be dangerous for your children to get ahold of, probably need to be reserved for after the children go to bed or at least are not in the room.

I will admit that I have overreacted to something dangerous my son has done (picking up a spider, for one), and my reactions have sometimes scared him. This is bad, bad, bad, and I know it, but sometimes that first instinct is just to scream at them to STOP whatever it is that might be about to hurt them. Most of the time, though, if I'm thinking straight and the situation doesn't involve insects (my worst fear) or something decidedly fatal, I try to gently lead my son away from the dangerous object before saying anything. Then I explain to him that it worried me before when he was doing such and such, and tell him the possible consequence of his actions. I have proof that this strategy works for us -- I did this after Chase was pulling up on the screen in front of our wall heater (which can sometimes get very hot but thankfully wasn't at the time), and he caught on so well that now he says "hot" or "bo-bo" every time he walks by the heater and I've never once seen him touch the screen since then.

The bottom line is that scare tactics do not work. I think, if anything, they just make the child scared of YOU for a few seconds, which causes them to forget what they even did that elicited your reaction in the first place.

[nuggetsmom]

Originally posted by MelKnee

And about the screw driver, I would just do my best to make sure ds never got one when I couldn't supervise him. Nothing I'm doing with the screw driver is more important then keeping my ds safe.

I was childproofing an outlet in our bedroom that DD was showing a lot of interest in. Can't do it while she is sleeping... and it was important. It has stuff plugged into it. I suppose I could have locked her in her room screaming.

[mamaduck]

Jacqueline - I don't think you handled it badly. It might not have been the best or most effective way, but honestly -- we sometimes get into these situations and "scolding" isn't the end of the world. She *did* scare you, and it sounds like you mainly communicated that fear -- which is appropriate. I think it is great to come up with a strategy for "next time" but please don't beat yourself up over this!

I've gotten into the habit of pulling out childsize versions of whatever tools I'm using. When I clean the bathroom, ds gets a spray bottle of water and a rag while I use the toxic stuff. When I vacuum, ds gets his toy vacuum so he's not inclined to mess with the cord on mine. When we garden, I use my tools and I pull out the plastic mini-versions for ds. When I am using a screw-driver, I get his plastic tool set out at the same time, and ask him to work on tightening up a kitchen chair for me while I do the dangerous stuff. When I cook on the stove, he gets a pot with water, a lid, a spoon, and some inexpensive spices to dump into his "soup" all set up on a chair beside me. The list goes on...

With outside play, I try to make the environment safe. The only time I've really had to raise my voice has been a few times he's run off in parking lots -- but honestly, he's pretty good about this too if I give him helpful jobs to do. "Here hon, you carry this bag and with this hand, and help mommy push the cart with your other hand..."

[nikirj]

I am going to go against what everyone else has said here, and say that showing your fear in this situation was totally appropriate. I mean, going on and on about it may not be, but looking scared as you say "don't do that, you might fall and really hurt yourself" sounds completely appropriate to me. After all, we are also trying not to hide our emotions, correct? And fear is a very legitimate one, and in moderation, it can help get the point across that we are talking about something more serious than say, tearing a page of a book.

I also work with tools while the kids are home sometimes; screwdriver, hammer, etc. I always keep them in my pockets when not in my hand, and always keep nails and screws either in my pockets or well out of reach. The kids are just WAAAY to interested in these things. They do have a hammering board and I try to redirect them to that, but usually they end up staring at me gape-jawed while I do whatever it is I am doing (yesterday I uninstalled the door to the laundry room; it was a sliding door and I took the tracks out and everything).

Back to the issue at hand: I don't think what you did was entirely inappropriate. But I think that what we are aiming for here is for our kids to THINK about what they are doing and why they shouldn't do it, and once they've hit crying and upset the message is lost. A small 'scolding' isn't going to get them to the crying and upset stage, and is OK in my book. But I think that the key here is that perhaps you went a tad overboard. There's only so much a toddler will listen to, after all, before they get overloaded and upset and nothing hits the brain at all. So perhaps in the future, while allowing your fear to show is OK (at least to a limited extent), and while a sentence or two of 'scolding' (IE explanation why NOT to do what they were doing) is OK, perhaps it should be limited to that.

[Avonlea]

I too, am going to disagree with some to a certin extent.

I respect GD, and so on. I try to use it about 95% of the time,a nd it does work. However..I also want my son ( an future children) to understand that they do have to LISTEN to me when I tell them NO!

So this means that yes, I do scold them. I have yelled NO loudly at my son when he was baout to stick something into an electrical socket. He cried and I held him, but i also told him what hewas doing was dangerous.I used a very serious voice, and I am not going to be sorry I did it. he heard me, knew I was not kidding around,,and so far ahs not tried to stick anything else into a socket again..

I like many aspects of GD.But I also want my kids to be safe, and cajoling them to come to me when they are inches away from a busy street is not a game I am willing to play.

when it comes to something life or death or serious injury..I am NOT PLAYING! I mean what I say,and I od expect a certain level of obediance re that issue.

Not to be dramatic, but I have been to a childs funeral. It was the worst experiance of my entire life.

For that reason, I am very concietious of what COULD happen( but might not, but am I god, do I know? )some might call it paranoid..but I would prefer to be over cautious as oppsed to lacking and have to face the consequences i the end( er visits, etc.)

Adn I am mean at times. I say no with out explaining.I don't tell my son why he ahs to do everything I sy..somethings are non negotiable..like holding my hand in teh parking lot.I don't care if he is kicking and screaming.I am not stopping to explain to him anything.I know we are in a busy place and the worst is that he could get crushed to death by a cr. So am I going to let go of his hand and try to explain nicley why he ahs to hold my hand????

Nope. I am going to hold his hand and we are going to hte car. Too bad so ssad if he does not like it. I am the Momma. He is not.

It is my responsibillity to keep him safe and alive...and I take it very seriously.Even if it emans I have to be a little mean at times.

I would rather he live with hurt feelings than be dead.

[dswmom]

Nuggetsmom,
I think you did what was instinctual for you and therefore not wrong in terms of discipline. Your child was doing something dangerous, you expressed your fear, and now when she sees a screwdriver in another environment that is not controlled by you, say a friends house, a store, on the street-where ever, she'll be reminded of the situation that occured and will more than likely NOT want to pick the screwdriver up and run with it.

I think it is very important for our children to understand what makes us scared and worried. However, if everything makes us scared and worried, then the purpose would be defeated, but sounds like you reserved your scolding response to something that really scared you. I like that you talked to her about it and calmed her down after the fact.

We can't always use the calm "mommy doesn't like it when you..." if our child is running towards the street, getting ready to hurt someone else, or is about to endanger himself. I'd like to believe that our child's environment can be totally controlled by us as parents, but that would be too unrealistic. Sometimes our natural reaction is the best one.

[nuggetsmom]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I guess I have been thinking about it. I don't think a small scolding is bad even if it is loud. I did not go on and on. I used "I-messages" IYKWIM, and I did not then ignore her or slight her in any way. It was my gut reaction and I can't have control of every situation all the time. I can live with that being my gut reaction and I hope that I will be able to be clear headed enough to talk to her in a "I feel this when you do that" sort of way.
And in fact yesterday it happened again. I was unloading the car of groceries and I had asked her to help me. It was too hot to leave her strapped in the car and besides, she wanted to get down. Well, she got a devilish look in her eyes, turned and ran to the street.
Now, I live on a pretty dead end street so the likelyhood of seeing a car is small. And the likelyhood that they are going fast is smaller, but it is the priniciple. I snagged her up in the street, just then a car comes round the bend (4 houses down mind you) and well, I scolded her and after hugs and kisses and we were all calmed down I put her in the car to wait for me to be done (obviously she can walk right out of the house if I put her there while I am going in and out). She was happy enough playing in the car and I don't consider it punishment. In fact she often asks to play in the car and if I am feeling patient and up to it I let her. It can be hard to get her out of the car agian later see.

Anyway, I can remember my mom scolding me for long extented periods of time, but I was very quick about it. Two sentences, a serious/angry tone, hugs, why don't you play in the car while I finish. I don't think that is a type of scolding where you tune out the other person or put up defences. I can remeber doing that when my mom scodled me. Her scolding were all about what i did and stuff though. NOt about her, and I think that makes a big difference.

Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. I find it useful to think through these situations and get other points of view because it helps me grow.