tell me about public preschool -- the good, the bad, and the ugly!

[chinaKat]

I'm going to an open house for the local public preschool next week. DD will be old enough to attend in the fall. There is a lottery for the open slots.

If she gets in, she will probably go to the public preschool. Private is not an option ($$$) and we already do plenty of homeschool type stuff here. I'm looking at it as a socialization opportunity for her (she's been at home with me her whole life), and a chance for me to spend some one on one time with her younger sibling who will be born this summer.

I don't know ANYTHING about preschool. What kind of questions should I ask at the open house? What should I look for? What is good about public preschool? What is scary?

[teacup]

No advice, but I'm curious to see what responses you get. We're at the same place you are for this.

[KMK_Mama]

My 4yo goes to public pre-school. I didn't ask any questions at the open house because it is and was our only option. : She will go there for elementary school as well.

It is 20 students to a teacher and an aid.

She gets sick a lot.

She picks up bad behavior from other kids.

They discipline using the 3 strike system....3 strikes gets you into time-out, or there are automatic time-outs for certain behaviors that are not tolerable: hitting, saying hateful things, throwing things.

She has learned A LOT.

She has made friends and so have I.

Overall though, she says she doesn't like it. I don't think it has anything to do with the school itself, but rather the fact that before then she had never been away from me. I still have to walk in with her and stay for about 10 minutes or she'll cry, while other parents drop their kid at the door.

[summerleaf]

Sorry can someone explain what a public pre-school is? I thought all pre-schools cost money just like day care, and wasn't aware that any were affiliated with public grade schools.

I'm in Canada by the way, but grew up in the US.

[Aura_Kitten]

the good -

they have the opportunity to make lots of friends

they learn how to interact within the standard group dynamic for your locality (ie "socialization")

they're (usually) exposed to more diversity then can be found in a small homeschool type group

they get sick a lot - yes i'm going to list this as a plus. i think it helps for kids to get all the common illnesses early on..... it strengthens their immune systems

they learn how to deal with being given rules and structure which, if they're going to go from preschool into a K-12 public school environment is extremely helpful


the bad -

food (unless you're in a really eco-friendly area, preschool / daycare food is usually very poor quality --- at least around here ... like, chicken nuggets with packaged apple sauce)



the ugly -

even in accredited / licensed places you'll still get the occasional jerks who don't realize you should change a dirty diaper

there is always the risk of abuse / assault / neglect (which of course can happen ANYWHERE your kid is that you aren't....)

as someone already mentioned, your child will pick up very bad habits (hitting, spitting, kicking, yelling.... and on and on) -- pretty much anything they're not exposed to and have learned to not do, you'll be teaching them about very soon

as far as sickness goes - if your child is NOT immunized you will need to be very careful, as the new immunizations that are required now are very contagious... so assuming all or at least most of the other kids attending are vax'ed your kid may catch the disease from them :

[BrooklynDoula]

We checked out one and it was AWFUL IMO. they had 45 minutes alone with our son in which time they 1. insisted he be left to cry and not call us despite my instructions otherwise and their assurance that they would (it is better this way they said) 2. force feed him COOKIES and JUICE as a means to try to stop him from crying (and they wonder about obesity in America - sad=eat) 3. Got all weird about gender and sorting all the kids by gender for zero pedigocial reason 4. When we arrrived and found him crying, they told my husband he was not allowed to hold him and then explained that our son was not being 'a man'

Needless to say, our son is homeschooled and he gets LOTS of socialization. Personally and professionally (I am an anthropologist), the sociallization arguement just does not hold any water for me. It is not typical for kids to be same-age socialized because they don't socialize well this way (in large groups of same-aged kids with little adult attention). It is a product of a child care need and not a product of thinking about what is best for kids.

[milehighmonkeys]

Originally Posted by MSAX

Needless to say, our son is homeschooled and he gets LOTS of socialization. The sociallization arguement just does not hold any water for me. It is not typical for kids to be same-age socialized because they don't socialize well this way (in large groups of same-aged kids with little adult attention). It is a product of a child care need and not a product of thinking about what is best for kids.

I share this point of view as well. As adults we are not limited to socializing with people of our own age. I consider school an artificial environment. It's a great tool to educate large numbers of children at the same time, but I think that is where the benefit ends. I have not sent DD to preschool and don't intend to do so either in public or private school.

[mommy68]

I didn't realize there even was public preschool. I have only seen it in private schools and churches in my area. The only public schools I know that offer something to 4 yr olds is for the handicapped and special needs children only.

I say go for it if your child is going to be attending public school later anyway.

Originally Posted by MSAX

It is a product of a child care need and not a product of thinking about what is best for kids.

I disagree. This is your personal opinion. Plus, does this mean you NEVER let your child out of the house to be involved in classes with kids his own age?? That's very odd to me. When I homeschooled there were classes constantly every day of the week that offered something for children in the same age groups, just like a school would do.

I have homeschooled my children and public/private schooled them. It has worked well with each choice. It depends on the child and how they are treated at home as to how well they will turn out in the long run.

It is not typical for kids to be same-age socialized because they don't socialize well this way

That isn't always true. I've read books by homeschoolers that try and prove this theory but unless you've had children that have been H/S and also have attended school outside the home you can't possibly know how it will be for each individual child. Yes, I'm the parent of my 3 children and I know what they need best in life and home is the best place for them. I still choose to send the oldest two to school at this point outside the house. I feel it's good for them to be around kids their own age so they don't feel alone when they go through changes w/their bodies and maturity.

You know if it weren't for my oldest DS's best friend in school he wouldn't have someone to share his love for animals with. His dad and I have no interest whatsoever in going outdoors for hours searching for animals/bugs and our son has a friend to do that with. He has interests that he shares with his dad and I but some he needs to have another kid around that is also interested, nothing wrong with that at all.

I personally like it that my oldest two DS were able to go from being homeschooled to going to a private school and learning how to communicate with children their own age every single day instead of just one or two hours a week like we did when homeschooled. They were very shy upon entering school and quickly learned how to be sociable.

Our boys still have many adults in their lives that are great influences on them, but it's good that they have friends that want to do "kid stuff" with them too. They have a few friends their own age but are still very normal kids.

[chinaKat]

regarding the socialization issue: DD spends tons of time with adults. She is almost always the only child in the room. While this is fine a lot of the time, I don't think that it's in her best interest to ALWAYS be the only child around. Like it or not, adults treat a child differently than other children do.

Hence my desire for "socialization". Frankly, I think it will be very good for her to spend some time with other kids -- for a change she won't be with people who fall all over her to make sure she has the toy she wants, plays only the game she is interested, etc.

[lauren]

On the Learning at School forum, members are striving for the best experiences for their children in an out of home location (public school, private school). As such, it is generally not perceived as helpful to respond with posts that say all of these are unhelpful or 'that is why I homeschool/plan to homeschool.' Thanks for abiding by the 'cultural norm' of this forum!

[lauren]

Preschools can all be different. There are those that have accreditation (NAEYC), and those that don't. There are those that follow a specific philosophy (i.e. waldorf, montessori, reggio emilia, etc.) and those that have a state dictated curriculum. Public preschools are more likely to flow downward from the expectations of the public kindergarten and school, as they will want the children to be 'ready' in certain ways. However, any preschool is ultimately run by teachers and the most important thing is to scrutinize how those teachers interact with children. You want to look for a sense of joy, pleasure, love of interacting with childrne. You want to see that they are encouraging independence, celebrating accomplishments and never using shame or time out. You want to see positive redirection, gentle discipline. YOu want to see opportunities to be messy (finger paint, shaving cream) and to be creative. You want to see lots of free play and less 'academics.'

We have had a bunch of great threads on what to look for in a preschool on this forum. I wonder if you have tried to search for them. If you can't find any, let me know and I will go back and pull some up.

YOu have asked a great question and it comes up a lot!

[crl]

I think public preschools vary considerably, just as private ones do.

I would ask some questions like: what's the staff to student ratio, what are your policies/procedures for sick kids, how do you handle hitting/biting/etc, how much time do the kids spend outside, what does a typical schedule look like, what happens if a child does not want to participate (for example, in circle time), how do you handle the transition when children start school, does the school have a particular philosophy (Montessori, Reggio-Emilia, play-based, accademic, etc) . . . .

If you can find anyone who has used this preschool in the past, you could ask them questions too. Did their kids like it? Did most of the kids seem happy there, etc?

Depending on your views on food, I do think it quite likely that snack/lunch may be an issue for you. Public school food tends to be high fat, high sodium, processed, etc. And if snack is provided by the school or by the parents on a rotating basis, it may be less than ideal too. I admit to just letting go of this issue. I feed DS well the rest of the time. He's a very active, healthy kid. I figure that's good enough. But others may feel very differently (and legitmately so!).

Hope that helps.

[chinaKat]

Originally Posted by lauren

We have had a bunch of great threads on what to look for in a preschool on this forum. I wonder if you have tried to search for them. If you can't find any, let me know and I will go back and pull some up.

YOu have asked a great question and it comes up a lot!

Thanks -- I actually originally posted this question in the Toddler forum and a mod moved it here... I haven't really checked this forum out before (no need until now), but will spend some time doing so!

[BrooklynDoula]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I disagree. This is your personal opinion. Plus, does this mean you NEVER let your child out of the house to be involved in classes with kids his own age?? That's very odd to me. When I homeschooled there were classes constantly every day of the week that offered something for children in the same age groups, just like a school would do.

As I said, I believe this both personally and professionally (as an anthropologist with extensive training in cross-sultural analysis and historical differences). It is not simply a matter of opinion.

And, since you asked about my homeschooled child, he does in fact take classes (although I attend these classes also) and each of the classes he takes (gymnastics, art, music lessons, soccer, zoo school, etc) are all either private instruction or they are mixed age classes. We have tried a few classes pitched to his age range specifically and found them to be painfully boring and far below his interest and skill level so we stick to the classes with a more open age range so that he can learn from and with older and younger children (as so many kids around the world routinely do).

[BrooklynDoula]

Originally Posted by lauren

On the Learning at School forum, members are striving for the best experiences for their children in an out of home location (public school, private school). As such, it is generally not perceived as helpful to respond with posts that say all of these are unhelpful or 'that is why I homeschool/plan to homeschool.' Thanks for abiding by the 'cultural norm' of this forum!

I apologize if you are speaking to me. She had asked for the range of experiences and our experience was so bad we ended up homeschooling because of it. To me, based on the question she was asking, these appeared to be a direct response to her question and there for an attempt to be helpful. We wanted to use the free preschool because we really could have used the free child care (which is what I see public preschool as being) but it was awful and exemplified the 'ugly' I thought the OP was asking for.

[WalkingByFaith]

Our local district has public 1/2 day/5 days a week free preschool for 4 year olds. They call it "Universal Preschool".

Ds doesn't attend, so I can't give any opinion though.

[Potty Diva]

Our county has a public preschool called "More at Four" it is aimed at disadvantaged children who have not been exposed to a childcare setting.

We also have a preschool program at our center. They use ABEKA VERY VERY loosely and are very child-centered.

The only negative experiences I have had are with church-run/sponsored preschools. The three I have observed are very rigid wit unrealistic expectation of 3-4 yr olds. Their one constant is the teaching of scripture with dashes of kindergarten preparation thrown in.

one of those church-run preschools is attached to it's own school(K-12). I have nothing positive to say about this school.

[Potty Diva]

Definitely ask about ratios.
Discipline policies, food allergy policies and reactions to such.
Medical Emergency policies.
School Philosophy
Teacher education and experience
names of parents who are at the preschool cuurently who would be willing to discuss with you their experience with the preschool.

Ask to speak directly to the teacher who will be caring for and teaching your child. Ask her what she would do in a variety of situations.
-Biting
-Hitting
-A crying child

If time outs are used, in what capacity (as a calm down time or as a punitive instrument).

HTH

[Potty Diva]

Oh, and ask to observe an active classroom to get the feel for how to teacher interacts with the cihldren.

Open door policy?

[Kirsten]

I'm a little confused by what you mean by public vs. private preschool. I've never heard of any free preschools. There is a huge range of what is charged for preschool. Around here I know it ranges from $56 per month to $800+ per month.

Questions I ask when looking at preschools:

**what days/times is class?
**what age range in this class?
**upper limit for number of students?
**teacher to student ratio?
**how long has teacher been there?
**cost
**parent responsibilities (required monthly parent ed meetings, required committee, etc.)
**how are holidays handled?
**how is discipline handled?
**is snack provided/what might that generally be?
**what expectations for how the kids adhere to class (what happens if they don't want to make an art project or sit in circle or eat snack?)

I think preschool is really great. My girls have loved it. They've made friends; I've made friends. They also really learned how a classroom works. When they walked into kindergarten, they knew what to expect and how to do what was asked of them.

I think the most important thing is the teacher. If he/she is kind, respectful, attentive, and loving then you good IMO.