I am new, pregnant with another boy, and need help with hubby! - Page 2

[PuppyFluffer]

Lactationmom, Any progress with your husband and the circ decision? Just curious!

[Quirky]

lactationmom, definitely show him the Paul Fleiss article that Last Minute linked above - it's fully documented, and Paul Fleiss is an MD/MPH, so good credentials there.

Also see Dr. Fleiss' book, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Circumcision (Amazon link ).

Finally, your husband is an MD: challenge him to prove to you that the surgery is necessary for any medical reason. Ask him what other cosmetic surgeries he'd be willing to perform on his newborn. He should have the burden of proof of justifying this medical procedure rather than you having the burden of proof to dejustify it.

Good luck, I know how hard it can be when you and your partner disagree about something so important!

[somemama]

Re: PS

Originally posted by Sarah
I forgot to mention- North Carolia no longer will pay for infant circumcisions with medicaid money- neither will Montana, Arizona, Missouri, California, Oregon, North Dakota, Nevada, Mississippi and Washington

Neither will Utah.

[lactationmom]

I feel very comfortable in the fact that my husband will come around and not only 'give in' to me, but agree with me. I have backed off this week, we have been busy in the yard (fun!) and doing family things, but it will come up again, soon. I have ALL the articles and stats and even forwarded them all to his work e-mail so he could read them without me around. His real 'justification', if you can call it that, is that he and our son are circ'd and it justs make sense to have another son the same (obviously this is a dumb point, I pointed that out) and that they don't remember it (I said, he wouldn't remember if we had his arm chopped off either, but it's still barbaric just the same).
You know, it's just years of conditioning, years of thinking one way, and it will just take a little time to see the big picture. The good thing is, once he does come around, I know he will be an advocate, which in medicine is a great thing.

[PuppyFluffer]

Well, if you want to tackle the "He won't remember it" statement, I have more food for thought. There is a book out called Babies Remember Birth. I believe it is by a guy named Chamberlain. There is another wonderful book called Love Start by Eve Marnie RN that is really good too. It talked about pre-birth bonding the baby's ability to input information before birth.

In Chamberlain's book he takes people back thru hypnotic regression to their birth experiences and it is amazing what they are able to recount - colors, expressions on people's faces, things said and how they felt (with an adult vocabulary to describe the experience). He does not talk about circumcision in his book but I wonder if any of his research touched on this? I don't know when this book was published but I read it several years ago.

Good luck with your discussions and I'm so glad you are persuing this with your husband.

[Frankly Speaking]

I think the answer is to make circumcision reciprocal. If you circumcise your child, at any time later the child gets to forcibly remove as much of your genitals as he wants by what ever procedure he chooses. That would put an end to circumcision with in a month.


Frank

[lactationmom]

Thanks Karen!

HA HA HA Frank, that is great!

[Xenogenesis]

I truly am enjoying this discussion ! Your general attitude is refreshing, lactationmom. I totally agree you are *saving* a lot of babies because of his position and his colleagues. Bravo !

[lactationmom]

You will ALL be very pleased to know you have not only helped me, but countless other families as they ponder this 'decision'.

I was talking to my midwife yesterday and told her about posting here and the response I received (all the links). She asked me to send them all to her, so she can print them to show/give to ALL HER NEW PATIENTS (and this midwife is the only one in the state of SC to open a birth center, she is very popular and reaches women in SC, Georgia and NC!!!). YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She was very excited to get the articles and said she planned to give them to every new parent, or at least have them read a copy (copywrite laws).

SO A BIG THANK YOU FROM HER ALSO!!!!!!!!!!!

[PuppyFluffer]

That is so wonderful! Thank you for being so active. Who says one person can't change the world! You can certainly change the world for someone.

[Xenogenesis]

That is so great !!

[Frankly Speaking]

Copywrite

Heather:

Most everything you find about circumcision can be printed and spread with no problems of infringement of copywrite laws. Most everybody who is active in the movement is far more interested in spreading the message than restricting something they have written. Almost everything from the government is public domain unless it is from a publication they sell. The messages from the AAP, AMA, BMA, CPS and like organizations are also usually for public education and are intended to be spread. The exception to this is articles published in the past 6 months in medical journals such as JAMA and Pediatrics. However, you can spread the synopses and editorials of these articles without a problem even if they are less than 6 months old.

Just use a little common sense and descretion and you'll have no problem.



Frank

[lactationmom]

Thanks Frank, I forwarded them to my midwife and I am sure she will take notice of that. I just mentioned it in CASE there were articles with copywrites (I read the articles but didn't pay attention to those details).

The great thing is, the articles will go in her 'new patient' packet so LOTS of new families will be very influenced, and as you know already, SC has one of the worst circ rates!

[Frankly Speaking]

Heather:

The two of you may be responsible for reducing the circumcision rate in SC all by yourselves. As the two of you spread the message, the recipents will tell their friends who will tell their friends. With the availabliity of the internet, the message can spread all over the state and beyond.

Imagine when Marilyn Milos started this over 20 years ago. No money, no support from the medical profession, the circ rate going up and no internet. She was surely up against the wall!

Marilyn was the one who got the message started and we are just passing it on just as you will be the one starting the message in your part of SC and others will pick up the message and pass it on as well. We are doing such a great job that all of the medical professions around the world are taking notice and the message is being told in the mass media.

Keep watching. You are going to hear a LOT more of this issue in the next few years.



Frank

[nightowl1234]

You might also tell her about www.mothersagainstcirc.org
There is a wonderful article by Dr. Paul Fleiss on it: The Case Against Circumcision. It covers about everything an expecting mother needs to know. I make copies and give one to each pregnant woman I see.

Together we'll make a difference.

Circumcision will soon be a thing of the past.

[lactationmom]

Great site, thank you!

I will forward it to my midwife so she can print it, I can't wait until my next appt with her to see what she has done with the articles and the response she has received!

[Quirky]

update???

Heather, did you manage to convince dh to leave your baby boy intact? I know he's just about to be born...please tell us your dh came around!

Keeping all my fingers and toes crossed....